Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

Mercy Shown · May 2, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
What are you talking about? I replied to every single point you made. I made like 6 or 7 replies to that long post addressing every single point you made and you only responded to one of them. You're saying we can’t repent and believe unless God enables us to then you quote Acts 16:14 as evidence to support you’re statement but the woman whom God opened her heart was ALREADY A WORSHIPPER OF GOD. She was already a believer. Nowhere does it say that she was unable to accept the gospel, it says that the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things Paul was saying. Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. She was seeking and knocking because she was already a worshipper of God.

Why do I need to refute opinions. Everyone has them but they are not fact.

You have a smaller view of repentance than I am expressing. It seems you believe it is a one and done thing.

BNR32FAN · May 2, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
Why do I need to refute opinions. Everyone has them but they are not fact.

You have a smaller view of repentance than I am expressing. It seems you believe it is a one and done thing.

Ok so what you just said here is that you’re not going to address anything I posted when I addressed every single point you made by quoting scripture. Not a very solid defense to your theology brother.

BobRyan · May 2, 2025

Romans 8 said:
When I became a born again Christian over 5 years ago, I loved coming to this forum to learn about the Bible. The topic of OSAS was the topic which significantly held my interest. I went back and forth on the issue, and I really wanted to believe OSAS is true, for peace of mind. Thing is, I could never get peace in letting this doctrine settle,and I believe it's for this reason: OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell. Without posting every verse in the Bible which supports my belief, I will post this one: Matthew 24:13 says: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

Indeed - Matt 24:13 is hard to ignore.

Matt 18 last half of the chapter teaches - "forgiveness revoked" just as does Ezek 18.

Rom 11 "you stand only by your faith... you should fear for if He did not spare them - neither will he spare you. "

John 15:1-9 "every branch IN ME" that does not bear fruit after several attempts to prune it - is cut off and cast into the fire.

1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

============================

Rom 8:13-16 formula for assurance of salvation

13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Rom 2:4-16 tells us that OSAS is not the method used in the judgment.

Spiritual Jew · May 4, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
You say so, but what makes what you say a fact. We can publish our opinions all we want but that does not make it so.

When did I say what I said is a fact? Never. Of course I'm sharing my opinions and never said that you can't.

Spiritual Jew · May 4, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
Well, all of the Pharisees for start. All those who had a form of Godliness.

They were not worshipers of God. They were all about themselves which is why Jesus called them hypocrites and snakes.

Spiritual Jew · May 4, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
Lots of your opinions but little scripture.

What are you talking about? I provided scripture. And you make no effort at all to address the scriptures I presented or my points. I can't take you seriously.

Mercy Shown · May 5, 2025

Spiritual Jew said:
What are you talking about? I provided scripture. And you make no effort at all to address the scriptures I presented or my points. I can't take you seriously.

You fail to address the scriptures I provided. This is slipping rapidly into an ad hominem contest of implied accusations. I do not desire that to happen so if we can. let's get the buggy back on the road. If not, then lets just stop.

Mercy Shown · May 5, 2025

Spiritual Jew said:
They were not worshipers of God. They were all about themselves which is why Jesus called them hypocrites and snakes.

The issue has two sticking points. One, how is worshiper of God defined and two, at what point does repentance occur. How these two interrelate is controversial. Does repentance spring from the heart of a natural man all by itself or does God begin work on a mans heart which then produces repentance? There is a difference between a man who will not repent and a man who has yet to be convicted and convinced of his sin.

As to point one it is possible to be a worshiper of God and not be a saved person. Jesus, quoting Isiah pointed this out on Matthew 15:8–9 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” This echos what Paul said in Romans 10:2, "For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge."

We don't know when a person truly repents or becomes a true worshiper of God. Many people join in praise and worship that do not have changed hearts and still, some of those individuals will end up repenting and accepting Christ as their saviour. Some will have been life long worshipers before God truly breaks through.

As to the second point. Some people see repentance as a one and done deal and yet is not repentance a part of our growth in Christ? As we become convicted of sin and see more and more of our own sin, will we not repent of the new revelations?

Mercy Shown · May 5, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
Ok so what you just said here is that you’re not going to address anything I posted when I addressed every single point you made by quoting scripture. Not a very solid defense to your theology brother.

I did address everything you said, because even your quotes of scripture are cherry picked by your bias. However, to oblige you, here:

Point one Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, John 1:22 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our’s only, but also for the sins of the whole world.e sins of the whole world." No one pays for their own sin or else God would be asking to be paid twice. The whole world was plunged into death be Adam, it was not Adams progeny's fault that they were born in sin. So Jesus came to bear their sin and all are made alive again by Him. "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." 1 Cor 15:22

One a man is "made alive" they can choose to reconcile themselves to God through repentance or they can choose to reject and resist the Holy Spirit of God to their eternal destruction. As the bible says God calls all men everywhere to repent and this is done be His grace which came through the death of Christ on the cross. Remember we are saved by Grace and this would include repentance.

Mankind was perfect --->Adam fell ---> All men were then born sinful ---> Christ came and bore all mankind's sin ---> Mankind was out from under the curse of the law and and God reconciled Himself to men ---> God calls men to reconcile themselves to Him through us His ambassadors. ---> Because of God's Grace all mankind now can see and hear God's call.

Spiritual Jew · May 6, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
You fail to address the scriptures I provided. This is slipping rapidly into an ad hominem contest of implied accusations. I do not desire that to happen so if we can. let's get the buggy back on the road. If not, then lets just stop.

Looks like we need to stop then since neither of us thinks the other is addressing any of the other's points even though I know I have addressed your points.

TruthInLight · May 6, 2025

BobRyan said:
Indeed - Matt 24:13 is hard to ignore.

Matt 18 last half of the chapter teaches - "forgiveness revoked" just as does Ezek 18.

Rom 11 "you stand only by your faith... you should fear for if He did not spare them - neither will he spare you. "

John 15:1-9 "every branch IN ME" that does not bear fruit after several attempts to prune it - is cut off and cast into the fire.

1 Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it"

============================

Rom 8:13-16 formula for assurance of salvation

13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

Rom 2:4-16 tells us that OSAS is not the method used in the judgment.

Hebrews 6:4-12 also talks about enduring to the end, and about those who will be rejected.

BobRyan · May 6, 2025

TruthInLight said:
Hebrews 6:4-12 also talks about enduring to the end, and about those who will be rejected.

True.

Rom 2:4-16 you have both the failing cases and the successful cases contrasted.

Matt 24:13 "But he who endures to the end will be saved."

BobRyan · May 6, 2025

Mercy Shown said:
1. We Are Spiritually Dead Before Salvation
Ephesians 2:1-5 (ESV):

This passage says that we were dead, not merely sick or weak.

true.

But then God does the supernatural work of John 6 and John 12:32 "I will draw all mankind unto ME"
That is supernatural.

So while it is true with "no gospel at all" the sinful nature in man disables the action and desire to be saved.

IT is also true that the supernatural drawing of the lost to God "I will draw all mankind" john 12:32 enables all the choice that depravity disables such that the lost person can choose life , choose the gospel -- even before being a born again saint.

The inference that insists the lost must first be turned into a saint before they can choose life - is inference that goes too far.

God is able to "stand outside -- at the door -- and knock" Rev 3 -- -waiting for the sinner who is alone and on the inside to "open the door" -- fully enabled to choose, and to open the door -- due to the supernatural drawing of all mankind to Himself.

===================

"Some" have inferred that God first causes the lost to be a born-again saint, then the saint says "Hmmm I am a saint - well I suppose I should now accept the gospel". But the Bible shows that the supernatural work of God enables the lost person to make that choice while still a lost person that is not yet bornagain.

This means God first-cause drawing all - enabling all to choose - yet only the FEW of Matt 7 make that choice to accept . not the ALL.

This enabling that is not arbitrarily restricted to "just enable those who are already born-again saints" means we get the constantly repeated scenarios in scripture where God is enabling/calling - but many refuse because they "will not" and not because "they can not" accept God's call.

Problem solved.

Mercy Shown · May 7, 2025

BobRyan said:
true.

But then God does the supernatural work of John 6 and John 12:32 "I will draw all mankind unto ME"
That is supernatural.

So while it is true with "no gospel at all" the sinful nature in man disables the action and desire to be saved.

IT is also true that the supernatural drawing of the lost to God "I will draw all mankind" john 12:32 enables all the choice that depravity disables such that the lost person can choose life , choose the gospel -- even before being a born again saint.

The inference that insists the lost must first be turned into a saint before they can choose life - is inference that goes too far.

God is able to "stand outside -- at the door -- and knock" Rev 3 -- -waiting for the sinner who is alone and on the inside to "open the door" -- fully enabled to choose, and to open the door -- due to the supernatural drawing of all mankind to Himself.

===================

"Some" have inferred that God first causes the lost to be a born-again saint, then the saint says "Hmmm I am a saint - well I suppose I should now accept the gospel". But the Bible shows that the supernatural work of God enables the lost person to make that choice while still a lost person that is not yet bornagain.

This means God first-cause drawing all - enabling all to choose - yet only the FEW of Matt 7 make that choice to accept . not the ALL.

This enabling that is not arbitrarily restricted to "just enable those who are already born-again saints" means we get the constantly repeated scenarios in scripture where God is enabling/calling - but many refuse because they "will not" and not because "they can not" accept God's call.

Problem solved.

We are on the same page.

FAITH-IN-HIM · May 28, 2025

Romans 8 said:
When I became a born again Christian over 5 years ago, I loved coming to this forum to learn about the Bible. The topic of OSAS was the topic which significantly held my interest. I went back and forth on the issue, and I really wanted to believe OSAS is true, for peace of mind. Thing is, I could never get peace in letting this doctrine settle,and I believe it's for this reason: OSAS is a false doctrine meant to make us lazy, useless in the body of Christ, and possibly even send one to hell. Without posting every verse in the Bible which supports my belief, I will post this one: Matthew 24:13 says: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved."
If you believe in the doctrine of OSAS, I beg you to reconsider. By negating OSAS you do not automatically get pigeonholed as one who subscribes to "Lordship Salvation", as this is also a false doctrine. However, you will see that maintaining your relationship (abiding in Christ) is necessary for Christians in order to finish the race. You CAN be born again, yet end up in hell because of your apostasy. Do not be fooled nor lazy about your relationship with God. While it's not a religion, it is a relationship, albeit your most important one and it's so easy to drop the ball in this Laodecian church age we find ourselves. Renew your relationship with God every morning and read His Word everyday. I want all of us to make it and not take our relationship with Him for granted. That means NO deliberate sin, as continual deliberate sinning puts Jesus back on the cross and there is no sacrifice left for us...

Hebrews 10:26-27 says, For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Of course we aren't perfect and the Bible tells us that if we say we don't sin, we are liars. However, there's a difference between slipping up, and repenting, and living in sin and, "Oops, Jesus forgive me, Oops, I did it again Jesus, Oops, oops, oops",all in the span of a day or a few days or weeks.

There's a difference between a Christian and a disciple and Jesus want us to be the latter. God bless brothers and sisters, finish the race and will see you in heaven soon!

People struggle with OSAS because they sometimes overlook how we are saved at first. Whether you believe in Arminian theology, which says salvation can be lost, or Calvinist theology, which believes salvation is eternal, both agree that salvation is a gift from God.

When I received the gift of salvation, it was not something I earned. Both sides agree that salvation is given by the grace of God rather than as reward. Therefore, if salvation cannot be earned through good works, faithfulness, or righteousness, how can it be lost through one's actions?

Spiritual Jew · May 28, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
People struggle with OSAS because they sometimes overlook how we are saved at first. Whether you believe in Arminian theology, which says salvation can be lost, or Calvinist theology, which believes salvation is eternal, both agree that salvation is a gift from God.

When I received the gift of salvation, it was not something I earned. Both sides agree that salvation is given by the grace of God rather than as reward. Therefore, if salvation cannot be earned through good works, faithfulness, or righteousness, how can it be lost through one's actions?

Did you place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before receiving the gift of salvation? If so, then that's how you can lose it. By no longer having your faith and trust in Him as your Lord and Savior. We are not given warnings to keep our faith (confidence) in Christ until the end for nothing.

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

BNR32FAN · May 28, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
People struggle with OSAS because they sometimes overlook how we are saved at first. Whether you believe in Arminian theology, which says salvation can be lost, or Calvinist theology, which believes salvation is eternal, both agree that salvation is a gift from God.

When I received the gift of salvation, it was not something I earned. Both sides agree that salvation is given by the grace of God rather than as reward. Therefore, if salvation cannot be earned through good works, faithfulness, or righteousness, how can it be lost through one's actions?

Salvation can be lost failing to abide in Christ which can be either by turning to unbelief or just completely ignoring Christ’s teachings. John 15:1-7 Romans 11:17-21 Matthew 7:21-27 and 2 Timothy 2:12 are just a few clear examples of people who are undoubtedly saved being capable of losing their salvation.

FAITH-IN-HIM · May 28, 2025

Spiritual Jew said:
Did you place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before receiving the gift of salvation? If so, then that's how you can lose it. By no longer having your faith and trust in Him as your Lord and Savior. We are not given warnings to keep our faith (confidence) in Christ until the end for nothing.

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

If what you are stating is accurate, then salvation is not a gift but rather a reward dependent upon the manner in which I conduct my life.

FAITH-IN-HIM · May 28, 2025

BNR32FAN said:
Salvation can be lost failing to abide in Christ which can be either by turning to unbelief or just completely ignoring Christ’s teachings. John 15:1-7 Romans 11:17-21 Matthew 7:21-27 and 2 Timothy 2:12 are just a few clear examples of people who are undoubtedly saved being capable of losing their salvation.

As I mentioned, if salvation can be lost, then it is not truly a gift or an expression of God's love. Rather, it becomes a reward or compensation for my faithfulness to God.

BNR32FAN · May 28, 2025

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
As I mentioned, if salvation can be lost, then it is not truly a gift or an expression of God's love. Rather, it becomes a reward or compensation for my faithfulness to God.

So we deserve salvation because we believe in Christ? Is that what you’re saying? Because if we don’t deserve salvation for believing in Christ then it absolutely is a gift of grace. Isn’t it?

Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

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1. We Are Spiritually Dead Before Salvation​

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