- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Why did Pope Francis restrict the ancient Latin Mass?
- Thread starter Michie
- Start date
- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
With my experience, the TLM is almost entirely silent, with the exception of the prayers after Mass and the homily. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Upvote
0
- Dec 24, 2005
- 10,961
- 4,273
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
I don't think of the TLM as being 'silent' ... with the prayers and homily being audible ...
but yes, the environment is more silent and reverent.
Upvote
0
- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
Every time I attended it was almost completely silent. Is that normal?
Upvote
0
- Dec 24, 2005
- 10,961
- 4,273
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Maybe this will help!
Here is a video of an actual daily TLM from 2022.
The priest can be heard; so can the people be heard when responding.
So, I would not call this mass "silent".
Imho, this is an example of a daily TLM done well.
(Sadly, very sadly to me, this church could no longer provide the TLM effective 11/23 when the bishop decided to severely restrict it.)
Note: The Mass begins at about 4:20
(If you fast forward and stop at points, you will hear the priest and the people.)
Upvote
0
- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
Thank you! I didn’t know the congregation actually responded! It was always the priest only and the altar boy when I attendedMaybe this will help!
Here is a video of an actual daily TLM from 2022.
The priest can be heard; so can the people be heard when responding.
So, I would not call this mass "silent".
Imho, this is an example of a daily TLM done well.
(Sadly, very sadly to me, this church could no longer provide the TLM effective 11/23 when the bishop decided to severely restrict it.)
Note: The Mass begins at about 4:20
(If you fast forward and stop at points, you will hear the priest and the people.)
(in my case, the altar man since he was clearly in his 20s)
Upvote
0
- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
Also, the epistle and gospel when I attend (including the final gospel from the prologue of St. John) was NEVER read in English, only Latin.
On a normal weekday, there was never a homily, so the entire Mass without exception was in Latin.
On a normal weekday, there was never a homily, so the entire Mass without exception was in Latin.
Upvote
0
Cosmic Charlie
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated
Now why Mich, after all these years did I not know you were a convert.
I always thought you were a cradle Catholic.
not that it’s that big a thing, I’m just taken back a little by my ignorance.
Upvote
0
- Feb 5, 2002
- 185,962
- 68,422
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
I thought you were here when I was in the midst of converting.
Upvote
0
Cosmic Charlie
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated
Well. Mich,I thought you were here when I was in the midst of converting.
I am getting old
Upvote
0
Akita Suggagaki
Well-Known Member
- Jul 20, 2018
- 10,657
- 7,601
- 70
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Francis said he felt the more ancient mass was "being used in an ideological way" in reaction to modernity, including the more modern Vatican II mass.
He may have been right. But is that bad?
He may have been right. But is that bad?
Upvote
0
Cosmic Charlie
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated
I‘m willing to defend “Yes it is bad” with an UZI To my temple.
(This is why on one likes having me around)
Upvote
0
- Dec 24, 2005
- 10,961
- 4,273
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
If the new pope is one inclined to lift some of the restrictions off the TLM ...
I think it would be an interesting experiment to do this:
In a city where attendance and support at a church has dwindled significantly ...
and multiple parishes are being combined because of the low numbers ...
why not take one of the 'dying out' parishes and turn it into a 'TLM only' parish ...
and see what happens!
Where I live ... very populated, old (formerly very Catholic) cities here ... many of the old Catholic churches are 'dying out'. Only the old timers are pretty much there. Some of these old churches are gorgeous ... cathedrals! In lieu of shutting them down, parishes here continue to be combined. We currently have ONE priest pastoring FIVE churches! (The norm here is more like one priest pastoring 2 or 3.) So why not try it! Why not turn one of these old churches into a TLM parish ... and let Catholic locals decide where and how they want to worship? I think it would be very interesting to see, if the TLM could bring life back again to an old and slowly emptying church building ....
I think it would be an interesting experiment to do this:
In a city where attendance and support at a church has dwindled significantly ...
and multiple parishes are being combined because of the low numbers ...
why not take one of the 'dying out' parishes and turn it into a 'TLM only' parish ...
and see what happens!
Where I live ... very populated, old (formerly very Catholic) cities here ... many of the old Catholic churches are 'dying out'. Only the old timers are pretty much there. Some of these old churches are gorgeous ... cathedrals! In lieu of shutting them down, parishes here continue to be combined. We currently have ONE priest pastoring FIVE churches! (The norm here is more like one priest pastoring 2 or 3.) So why not try it! Why not turn one of these old churches into a TLM parish ... and let Catholic locals decide where and how they want to worship? I think it would be very interesting to see, if the TLM could bring life back again to an old and slowly emptying church building ....
Upvote
0
jas3
Well-Known Member
- Jan 21, 2023
- 1,354
- 978
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Usually the congregation doesn't respond. Some parishes do a "dialogue mass" where everybody says the responses, but I think the norm is for the altar servers to say them. When I was attending the TLM, one time after mass was finished, the priest asked everyone to remember that they weren't doing a dialogue mass and to leave the responses to the altar servers.
This would be a low mass, which is an abbreviated form of the high mass. A high mass involves singing from a choir. At one I went to, we were given sheet music for "Holy, Holy, Holy" on Trinity Sunday, and the congregation sang the hymn after the mass was over.
Upvote
0
- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
Yes. I’ve attended a few low masses, and only one high mass where it was all sung.
Were you ever Catholic?
Upvote
0
- Dec 24, 2005
- 10,961
- 4,273
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Really? That has not been my experience with the TLM.
Perhaps it has something to do with the bishop's preference, the country, etc.
All my years growing up (pre-Vatican II), parishioners responded ... though responses were brief.
And here in these parts today, they still do.
(go figure?)
Upvote
0
jas3
Well-Known Member
- Jan 21, 2023
- 1,354
- 978
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I attended my Catholic grandfather's parish occasionally growing up and spent a few years attending the NO and TLM regularly as an adult inquirer, but never ended up converting due to a variety of factors involving my family and myself. For myself, I loved the TLM, but was deeply pained by what I saw going on in the NO and in the suppression of the TLM from the highest levels of the Catholic hierarchy.
Maybe so. My experiences were with the FSSP and SSPX, and most of the time if any responses were said, it was in very hushed tones, but usually there weren't any responses. I remember reading somewhere that Abp. Lefebvre had his seminarians do dialogue Masses so they could learn the liturgy, but this was presented as an unusual case. I certainly can't speak to how things were pre-Vatican II; that was well before my time.
Upvote
0
- Feb 10, 2013
- 39,127
- 22,352
- 30
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Celibate
- Politics
- US-Republican
Upvote
0
- Sep 29, 2015
- 23,175
- 20,171
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-American-Solidarity
Even in the NO I have seen some weekday masses with no homilies. I think that is strange, but I think it is allowed. Better to have some sort of homily.
Homilies range between excellent and mediocre, honestly between excellent and poor.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
