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A Collision of Two Christianities
- Thread starter seeking.IAM
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Well, sure, I could argue that no two human beings ever hold exactly the same thought in exactly the same way.
I could argue that if we showed two humans a red rose, they are not actually seeing the same hue of red because of the variation of cones in their eyes.
But to the extent that humans can share the same concept in what they think is the same way, there are people have done so with the bible, just like two people can look at a red rose and agree that the rose is red even if their eyes aren't truly producing the same effect in their brains.
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Did Jesus and his followers storm Pilate's court?
Jesus would no more have stormed the Capitol than He stormed Pilate's court. The Capitol is not His Father's house.
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- Oct 28, 2006
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But RD, I wasn't referring to two human beings holding the exact same thought. Rather, I was referring to the same "official systematic hermeneutics." And the truth is, we don't, even if and when we may hold to some of the same statements of dogma.
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Back in the mid-1600s, there was a remarkable man, Roger Williams, a Puritan pastor who came to America in 1631. He was originally a Puritan but became a Separatist over the next few years. Besides founding the first Baptist congregation in America, and besides being a great and trusted friend to the Native Americans, and besides being one of the original Abolitionists against slavery, he also established Rhode Island as a co-op corporation (the only colony that was not a for-profit venture). He established Rhode Island as the only colony permitting total religious freedom, in his own words: "...even for the Musselman [Muslim] and the heathen [atheist]."
Williams was a staunch TULIP Calvinist. He believed the Lord would call His own to the Church, and there was nothing gained by forcing into the pews those the Lord had not called.
Williams was thus against the entanglement of Church with government. It's necessary to understand his context: Europe had been fighting the Thirty Years War his entire life over whether Europe would be an all-Catholic Holy Roman Empire. That war was winding down, but he was also watching the English Civil War heating up to determine what kind of Protestants the English would be. What he had seen in his life was unending war, Christian against Christian.
In 1644, Williams wrote "The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution, for Cause of Conscience." In that treatise, he traces the history of the tragic entanglement of Church and State all the way from Constantine to his present time, with the conclusion that there should be a "...hedge of separation between the Garden of the Church and the wilderness of the State."
It was Rhode Island that later refused to ratify the US Constitution until after the First Amendment had been written and ratified.
(Yes, Thomas Jefferson was cribbing from Roger Williams when he wrote to the Danbury Baptists about a "wall of separation between Church and State.")
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"Official systematic hermeneutics" is a formal methodology. I don't think it's necessary for us to use the same formal methodology.
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Right. Now you're getting what I was inferring to. And our Trinitarian solidarity and brotherhood doesn't depend on having the same formal methodology. And even if we did have one, it wouldn't guarantee the proliferation of individually diverse perceptions. At least, not on the civil side of life.
God gave us a Living Logos by which to live and to find Eternal Life, not a systematic set of spiritualized logistics. And, despite what our High-Church Tradition brethren may insist otherwise, I think we have to expect and allow for some diversity among us (without going all DEI about it at the same time.)
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fhansen
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It's funny because I've spoken with people who were certain that if we finally just get our hermeneutics right, we'd all agree on the basics. And I just can't help but see that as overly optimistic.
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I think Hermeneutics, and various forms of Biblical Exegesis, simply make us more aware of the conceptual and historical complexities that are at play in our Bibles and in the living out of our faith. I've never been one to think that Hermeneutics will solve all problems and disagreements. What it will do is help allay the growth of the weeds of derelict perceptions and thinking which sometimes invade within the garden of the Christian Faith.
Hermeneutics often finds itself aligned with Critical acumen, although it is no guarantee of growth in godliness and holiness. That has to be done by prayer and the effects of God's Spirit.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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Well, my theory on why Jesus said this was because the unbelieving Jews were not permitted to understand and repent and believe according to Mark 4:11-12 because they were partially hardened by The Father according to Romans 11:25 which is why they were not permitted to come to Christ according to John 6:44 in order to bring about God’s plan of salvation thru Christ’s crucifixion. So in that particular situation forgiving people who’s hearts were hardened in order to fulfill God’s plan seems very reasonable.
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- Aug 11, 2017
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I can answer that because I know for a fact that d Taylor teaches that all a person has to do is believe for 5 minutes and he’s saved no matter what he does afterwards.
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d taylor
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This is addressed to believers concerning their fellowship forgiveness toward their Father (God). Un-forgiven sin keeps the believer in a position of being out of fellowship with God.
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