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Heaven or the new earth or the Kingdom of Heaven on the new earth, or otherwise?
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Where do believers spend eternity?
- Thread starter Joseph G
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On the new earth, he will move His heavenly kingdom to the new earth.
Revelation 21
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God”
Revelation 21
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God”
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- Dec 22, 2023
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I tend to agree. Thus why it's accurate to ask those we are sharing the Gospel with, "Do you want to go to Heaven when you die?" Seems kinda awkward to instead say, "Do you want to go to the new earth when you die?"
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I tend to agree. Thus why it's accurate to ask those we are sharing the Gospel with, "Do you want to go to Heaven when you die?" Seems kinda awkward to instead say, "Do you want to go to the new earth when you die?"
I think the best way when sharing the gospel would be to say .... do you want a forever relationship with the Lord our creator? Now and for eternity?
How that actually occurs (through Jesus) then is found as one studies.
And BTW ... the saved do go to heaven (Gods abode in the high heavens) when Jesus returns for the 1,000 years (1st resurrection) and are with the Lord from that point on into eternity. But God's plan is not fully complete ... after the 1,000 years there will be the 2nd resurrection (of the lost) and He will ultimately destroy those and THEN create the new heavens and earth where all spend eternity.
Looking forward to His return. AMEN!!!!
This is a rather awkward statement as well. The bible teaches we are mortal and we don't receive immortality until Jesus returns. All are in a dormant sleep in the grave and will be resurrected someday.
I think the best way when sharing the gospel would be to say .... do you want a forever relationship with the Lord our creator? Now and for eternity?
How that actually occurs (through Jesus) then is found as one studies.
And BTW ... the saved do go to heaven (Gods abode in the high heavens) when Jesus returns for the 1,000 years (1st resurrection) and are with the Lord from that point on into eternity. But God's plan is not fully complete ... after the 1,000 years there will be the 2nd resurrection (of the lost) and He will ultimately destroy those and THEN create the new heavens and earth where all spend eternity.
Looking forward to His return. AMEN!!!!
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- Dec 22, 2023
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AMEN from me too!
I appreciate your suggestion. Another option (that might combine the two), might include this fanciful reasoning that could harmonize with other Scripture as well. See what you think...
We die. Are buried, or scattered to the wind, whatever. We are asleep. Considering this is a markedly dead sleep, I would suggest that we do not dream, or wake up momentarily to roll over, scratch ourselves, or whatever. We remain utterly unaware from the moment of death until we are raised up.
So from our perspective, we die, we blink and we are "absent from the body and present with the Lord". We don't know we were ever asleep and thus conscious of the passage of time at all.
So...
1 Corinthians 15: 51-52 NIV
" Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."
Could that not then mean that in a flash and a twinkling of an eye, both the sleepers and the woke put on the imperishable and are present with the Lord - in Heaven?
Ergo... validating a combined challenge to the lost, "Do you want to go to Heaven when you die AND be with the Lord now and forever?"
Flaws?
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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I'd be hard pressed to pinpoint any given location. Mormons for example believe Jesus lives on a planet called (looking it up), KOLOB. Unlikely imho
I might imagine it more like being "absorbed" into God, whatever that might bring. I really didn't want to get stuck with myself as my current self anyway, for eternity. That would be severely limiting to me. A no limit, God Life would seem to me to require me being pretty much erased from the picture, and this is kind of the picture that 1 Cor. 15 brings, particularly vs. 28
So, location? Earth can be viewed as anything from a particle of dirt to a big round ball compilation of said particles
We also are advised that we, body wise are "like" clay (a form of earth/dirt), or dust, as in Adam's formation which also equates to what? Yes. Earth.
So, a new earth can very well indicate our new BODY, and our new HEAVEN can indicate a squeaky clean interior of said body, perfectly fitted for eternity. How that interacts with the material world is yet tbd. If at all. I might even suggest that said material world is "under God's Feet" and as such, perhaps a bit of separation is involved, not immersion in it as we currently are.
We are also treated to some writers who experience a "spiritual realm." And I'd suggest that is our ultimate eternal reality, which is probably going to be vastly different than anything we can presently imagine. Perhaps even a bit disorienting, at first. Hopefully there will be some sort of a smoothing transition process so as not to drown us entirely in the presence of joy and love, unfettered
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Yes ... This is my understanding from scripture. ALL in the grave are in a dormant sleep (even the lost) there is no "burning place".
The grave (death) keeps us captive until resurrection. A dormant prison ... and Jesus has the keys.
Revelation 1:18
AMPC
And the Ever-living One [I am living in the eternity of the eternities]. I died, but see, I am alive forevermore; and I possess the keys of death and Hades (the realm of the dead).
One day He's going to unlock the doors to the prison of death that holds us captive.
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Jamdoc
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New Earth, God dwells among men on the New Earth, you could say "Heaven" in the sense that Heaven is where God dwells, if God dwells on the New Earth then the New Earth is Heaven.
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Jamdoc
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Well yeah I don't mean "Earth" as in just 1 planet.
but "Earth" as in God's physical creation, as physical corporeal beings of flesh and bone.
I'd be kind of disappointed if it was just 1 planet, more planets = more magnificent and awesome God, a boundless creation = a boundlessly more amazing God.
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Well hey, I can send a couple clean-cut spiffy fellows from a nameless denom to your door to tell you all about an afterlife where you get your own planet and are the chief progenitor who populates your world, and heck, all the kiddos will bear your image! Then again, not sure we reveal our most whacky beliefs right off to just any Tom, Dick or Harry. I'll, um, get back to ya on that. And another thing, please don't whip out your Holy Bible and counter my boy's nonsense, they get kinda weak-kneed and sweaty when you do that.
Just joking!!! Sorta...
Yeah, I'm with you, Jamdoc. I figure, oh, a thousand years to explore and have adventures and then zoom (or hop on the transporter with Kirk and beam) to the next interesting planet.
Hmm... I guess since we're occupants in Heaven, all is Holy ground and wherever we go, in the city or in the country - everywhere and everyone is the Holy Temple. Maybe?
Won't it be great to worship the Father and the Lamb in Person?
Another quickie, just one of hundreds of fantasies I look forward to - learning how to write symphonies from M0zart, and other neat stuff. Yeah, I know, for you who've seen Amadeus you might think the encounter is not likely. Take a quick look at the lyrics to the work he was working on when he died, "Requiem in D Minor". He only wrote the music, but who knows, maybe exposure to the lyrics led him to a life-saving encounter with Jesus!
One can dream...
God bless!
[p.s. sorry for going so off the field from the OP, I just can't help myself]
[p.s.s. hey, *I* wrote the OP, eh? So go wild peeps!]
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Jamdoc
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Yeah I'm not meaning the Mormon model just, God created a vast universe, being confined to just 1 planet of it seems like, kinda limited for God.
and I mean I have my own silly fantasies as well, I don't want just.. falling on my face and singing hymns in a huge group to Jesus I want to interact with Jesus in a more intimate way, (not sexually intimate I mean like, father/son/friends) like, go on a hike (or hop in a spaceship or something) and explore creation,, have a barbecue, fish, go skydiving. I want Jesus to be more than my boss.
and maybe the most silly, and I feel a little embarrassed saying it but like, playing guitar with Jesus to.. "Jam with the Lamb" I know it's cheesy and awful but I want it anyway.
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Well hey, so does He. And we don't have to wait till Heaven to realize it. But there is a price to pay in the here and now first - a discipline established here that will continue into all eternity...
John 15:13-15 NIV
"Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."
So considering that I value knowing Him above all goodies I'm looking for in Heaven, and the fact that my obedience is rewarded by His confiding in me, and above all that He would desire the chief of all sinners to be His friend - if he says drop your fishing pole and join the chorus, I'll hop to it.
And singing praises to Him won't be a "sacrifice", because I've got it straight what I'm praising Him for. And if it ain't gonna be me, it's gonna be the rocks crying out anyway, we'll be in such awe of beholding Him in His glory and always thankful for what He has done and is doing, that it will be just natural. It already should be, actually.
And when you think about it, everything we do in Heaven will be praising Him. So if He wants me to sweep out the joint while everybody else is feasting at the banquet, I'll be whistling a happy tune for the privilege of just being there.
And who knows, maybe Jesus will meander around to tell us to take a break, and invite us along to hit the lake after all. Isn't He already in the habit of giving us rewards already?
God bless!
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Jeff Saunders
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I wonder if it’s more like how time in Narnea is different than earth time. So when scripture says that a thousand years is as a day to God , maybe in heaven time of one day is 1000 years here. So the believers that dies 2000 years ago will get there and if we die today it will be like they have only been there two days.
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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I don't think there is any "time" in heaven, as we know it here on earth
Heaven is not rotating around our physical sun. MIght even be faster than light there? Travel at the speed of Perfect Thoughts should be interesting
My pictures are partial, but the temple itself is comprised of all of us, as far as I can currently tell
Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God
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