What must we do to do the works God requires?

Neostarwcc · Nov 23, 2024

I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

So just what is faith and what are the works that God requires? Repentance and faith go hand and hand naturally. It is impossible to have faith without repentance. But just what is faith? It's more than a mental assent isn't it? Even Jesus said it was more than a mental assent when he told his apostles "if you love me you will keep my commandments" and he constantly told them to "feed his sheep". So there are works that God requires of us. Even Paul says in Ephesians that God has prepared works beforehand for us to do and that we should/will walk in them. So... faith is something more than just a mental assent and I don't think that's what he was saying to the pharisees at all when they asked him the question.

Sure the Christian life is about faith but just what is a true faith?

Guojing · Nov 23, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

So just what is faith and what are the works that God requires? Repentance and faith go hand and hand naturally. It is impossible to have faith without repentance. But just what is faith? It's more than a mental assent isn't it? Even Jesus said it was more than a mental assent when he told his apostles "if you love me you will keep my commandments" and he constantly told them to "feed his sheep". So there are works that God requires of us. Even Paul says in Ephesians that God has prepared works beforehand for us to do and that we should/will walk in them. So... faith is something more than just a mental assent and I don't think that's what he was saying to the pharisees at all when they asked him the question.

Sure the Christian life is about faith but just what is a true faith?

That verse is frequently misapplied. So many people use this out of its context. They read Paul's mystery grace revelation into it when that was not the intention of what Jesus was saying above.

John wrote his gospel as a record of the 8 signs that Jesus performed in order for Jews to believe that he is their promised Messiah (John 20:30-31).

In that record, the signs are seen as works of God. There are at least two times the John account explains that.

John 10:
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 14
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Once you understand what John was trying to do in his gospel, this verse you quoted is not saying we are trying to make it say, after we read Paul's revelation of the mystery.

Jesus was not saying to "believe in his death burial and resurrection and that is all you need to do to be saved." He was telling the Jews to believe in the signs, that he is their promised Messiah. The Jews, and Jesus were always under the Law of Moses pre-cruxifiction, and that Law must still be kept.

Mark Quayle · Nov 23, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

So just what is faith and what are the works that God requires? Repentance and faith go hand and hand naturally. It is impossible to have faith without repentance. But just what is faith? It's more than a mental assent isn't it? Even Jesus said it was more than a mental assent when he told his apostles "if you love me you will keep my commandments" and he constantly told them to "feed his sheep". So there are works that God requires of us. Even Paul says in Ephesians that God has prepared works beforehand for us to do and that we should/will walk in them. So... faith is something more than just a mental assent and I don't think that's what he was saying to the pharisees at all when they asked him the question.

Sure the Christian life is about faith but just what is a true faith?

Funny, about John 6:29. It is one of many statements in Scripture I have come to see as a play on words. He was asked, “What must we do to perform the works (plural) of God?” I don't think he answered it how they expected, and even after he answered it, they still did not pick up on his use of "work (singular) of God", "This is the work of God, that you should believe in Him whom He has sent." I wasn't there so I don't know if he emphasized, "of God", but I like to imagine he did, yet apparently he left it ambiguous enough that they still thought the work of believing is theirs to accomplish, even as some do now, not realizing that it is the WORK OF GOD that we should believe in the One that God sent.

The, "should", in, "...that you should believe..." as the Berean Literal Version (which I quoted above) states it, is in the present subjunctive active, which doesn't necessarily imply that 'it might or might not happen', nor is it necessarily a statement falling within the 'is-ought' dilemma, as though to give us the moral duty to believe, but simply the BELIEVING being contingent on the WORK OF GOD. It is we, who must "be believing" (the Greek present tense generally denotes continuous action), but if it is the work of God, and not a work of man, then it is done in us or to us, and is not generated by us. We don't do God's Work, as though he owes us salvation as his part of the salvation equation as a result of OUR faith. It is HIS to do, and entirely an act of Grace —"not of works" (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Faith is generated by the Spirit of God when he takes up residence in the person, changing the person from death to life. It IS our faith, and our believing, because it is done to US, and totally changes US, and WE are wrapped up in it, and driven along by it.

We usually ask the wrong questions of God. And the crowd, too, were thinking in terms of doing what God requires. But his listeners got his answer wrong, just as they got most of his sayings wrong, and throughout the Gospels he purposely spoke such sayings in a way that they could misunderstand, in riddles, parables and in disturbingly dark, extreme or deep statements. They asked him what sign he would do that would convince them to believe!

To this day, we still insist it is OUR duty, and God continues to say it in such a way that for some of us, we would consider it possible to generate such a faith in and of ourselves! Even those of us who think we have the riddle figured out, still insist from time to time that it is because WE have it right, that we have that faith. We are all hypocrites.

timewerx · Nov 23, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

Jesus did elaborate - The work of God is to believe in the one He has sent >>

Jesus elaborate here what believing means:

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

d taylor · Nov 23, 2024

-

What a sad state that people who identify as being of christian beliefs are in and have to ask what belief in Jesus means. No wonder Christianity is dying. Thank God there are people like Grace Evangelical Society who still know and can teach, what belief in Jesus means.

HarleyER · Nov 24, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

So just what is faith and what are the works that God requires? Repentance and faith go hand and hand naturally. It is impossible to have faith without repentance. But just what is faith? It's more than a mental assent isn't it? Even Jesus said it was more than a mental assent when he told his apostles "if you love me you will keep my commandments" and he constantly told them to "feed his sheep". So there are works that God requires of us. Even Paul says in Ephesians that God has prepared works beforehand for us to do and that we should/will walk in them. So... faith is something more than just a mental assent and I don't think that's what he was saying to the pharisees at all when they asked him the question.

Sure the Christian life is about faith but just what is a true faith?

True faith.

John 14:15
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 24, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

So just what is faith and what are the works that God requires? Repentance and faith go hand and hand naturally. It is impossible to have faith without repentance. But just what is faith? It's more than a mental assent isn't it? Even Jesus said it was more than a mental assent when he told his apostles "if you love me you will keep my commandments" and he constantly told them to "feed his sheep". So there are works that God requires of us. Even Paul says in Ephesians that God has prepared works beforehand for us to do and that we should/will walk in them. So... faith is something more than just a mental assent and I don't think that's what he was saying to the pharisees at all when they asked him the question.

Sure the Christian life is about faith but just what is a true faith?

LOVE

d taylor · Nov 24, 2024

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What also is sad, is how many read this in The Gospel of John and apply modern thinking into these verses.

These were Jews who were under the law of Moses(God). When they asked what works, their mindset was what Laws of Moses do we need to do. Not some contemporary concocted ideas of works.

timewerx · Nov 24, 2024

Guojing said:
The Jews, and Jesus were always under the Law of Moses pre-cruxifiction, and that Law must still be kept.

I'm not sure that's what St. John meant.

Again we review the verse of this OP using other verses:

(OP's topic)
John 6:28-29
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

(Elaboration of Jesus to His answer - the info the OP is seeking):
John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

(Some of the verses you supplied):
John 14:10-11
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

(St. John's elaboration to the verses above):
1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

My simple review using some of the verses supplied above:

The Father living in Jesus and Jesus in the father (or living in the Father) who is doing the works of Christ - John 14:10-11

To "live in Jesus" is to live how He lived and do what He commands (and He told His disciples those believe will the works He has been doing, thus, living as He lived) - John 14:12 and 1 John 2:3-6.

Jesus did not command us to keep the Law of Moses. The 10 Commandments, YES. But the Law of Moses in Leviticus is not absolutely required. Jesus did not observe the Sabbath in all circumstances. He scattered the animals being sold for sacrifice. He did not observe some of the Feasts in exactly the way they should.

Even the disciples exempted the Gentiles from following Mosaic Laws (Read whole chapter of Acts 15)

The New Testament does not require Mosaic Laws to the Gentiles (us) or it will contradict the teachings in Acts 15.

Guojing · Nov 24, 2024

timewerx said:
I'm not sure that's what St. John meant.

Again we review the verse of this OP using other verses:

(OP's topic)
John 6:28-29
Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” 29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

(Elaboration of Jesus to His answer - the info the OP is seeking):
John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

(Some of the verses you supplied):
John 14:10-11
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

(St. John's elaboration to the verses above):
1 John 2:3-6
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

You have to start with John 20:30-31 and recognized that the purpose of John's gospel is to record the 8 signs of Jesus.

Then you will be able to understand why, in his gospel, works are intimately linked to signs

timewerx said:
Jesus did not command us to keep the Law of Moses.

See Matthew 5:17-19 and Matthew 28:20

timewerx said:
Even the disciples exempted the Gentiles from following Mosaic Laws (Read whole chapter of Acts 15)

The New Testament does not require Mosaic Laws to the Gentiles (us) or it will contradict the teachings in Acts 15.

Gentiles were not the audience of Jesus's first coming (Romans 15:8, Matthew 15:24, Ephesians 2:11-12)

MelanieG · Nov 24, 2024

It's about more than just believing in Jesus; it's about living out that belief. Faith isn't just mental assent—it's shown through actions. Jesus made it clear that if we truly love Him, we will keep His commandments and do the works He did. It’s a faith that leads to repentance and a life that reflects Christ’s love and teachings. Faith without works is incomplete; it's about following His example, showing love, and helping others. The true work of God is faith that leads to action.

timewerx · Nov 24, 2024

Guojing said:
See Matthew 5:17-19 and Matthew 28:20

Yet Jesus did not observe many Mosaic Laws to the exact requirement. He must be referring to another Law.

Akita Suggagaki · Nov 24, 2024

What is the greatest commandment?

Minister Monardo · Nov 24, 2024

Neostarwcc said:
I know when Jesus was asked this question his response was the work of God is to believe in the one that he has sent but just what is faith? I hate that Jesus didn't elaborate when he answered the pharisees question (probably on purpose) it leaves too much up for debate.

So just what is faith and what are the works that God requires? Repentance and faith go hand and hand naturally. It is impossible to have faith without repentance. But just what is faith? It's more than a mental assent isn't it? Even Jesus said it was more than a mental assent when he told his apostles "if you love me you will keep my commandments" and he constantly told them to "feed his sheep". So there are works that God requires of us. Even Paul says in Ephesians that God has prepared works beforehand for us to do and that we should/will walk in them. So... faith is something more than just a mental assent and I don't think that's what he was saying to the pharisees at all when they asked him the question.

Sure the Christian life is about faith but just what is a true faith?

John 6:
28 Then said they unto him, what shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus was not simply referring to Himself, but also their rejection of God's prophets, especially John.
John 1:
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

Luke 7:
28 For I say to you, among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist;
but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
29 And when all the people heard, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.

Matthew 21:
23 Now when He came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people confronted Him as He was teaching,
and said, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority?”
24 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me,
I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things:
25 The baptism of John—where was it from? From heaven or from men?”
And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’
26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we fear the multitude, for all count John as a prophet.”
27 So they answered Jesus and said, “We do not know.”
And He said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

John 10:
40 And He went away again beyond the Jordan to the place where John was baptizing at first, and there He stayed.
41 Then many came to Him and said, “John performed no sign, but all the things that John spoke about this Man were true.”
42 And many believed in Him there.

Simonides · Nov 26, 2024

Mark Quayle said:
Funny, about John 6:29. It is one of many statements in Scripture I have come to see as a play on words. He was asked, “What must we do to perform the works (plural) of God?” I don't think he answered it how they expected, and even after he answered it, they still did not pick up on his use of "work (singular) of God", "This is the work of God, that you should believe in Him whom He has sent." I wasn't there so I don't know if he emphasized, "of God", but I like to imagine he did, yet apparently he left it ambiguous enough that they still thought the work of believing is theirs to accomplish, even as some do now, not realizing that it is the WORK OF GOD that we should believe in the One that God sent.

The, "should", in, "...that you should believe..." as the Berean Literal Version (which I quoted above) states it, is in the present subjunctive active, which doesn't necessarily imply that 'it might or might not happen', nor is it necessarily a statement falling within the 'is-ought' dilemma, as though to give us the moral duty to believe, but simply the BELIEVING being contingent on the WORK OF GOD. It is we, who must "be believing" (the Greek present tense generally denotes continuous action), but if it is the work of God, and not a work of man, then it is done in us or to us, and is not generated by us. We don't do God's Work, as though he owes us salvation as his part of the salvation equation as a result of OUR faith. It is HIS to do, and entirely an act of Grace —"not of works" (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Faith is generated by the Spirit of God when he takes up residence in the person, changing the person from death to life. It IS our faith, and our believing, because it is done to US, and totally changes US, and WE are wrapped up in it, and driven along by it.

We usually ask the wrong questions of God. And the crowd, too, were thinking in terms of doing what God requires. But his listeners got his answer wrong, just as they got most of his sayings wrong, and throughout the Gospels he purposely spoke such sayings in a way that they could misunderstand, in riddles, parables and in disturbingly dark, extreme or deep statements. They asked him what sign he would do that would convince them to believe!

To this day, we still insist it is OUR duty, and God continues to say it in such a way that for some of us, we would consider it possible to generate such a faith in and of ourselves! Even those of us who think we have the riddle figured out, still insist from time to time that it is because WE have it right, that we have that faith. We are all hypocrites.

Thank you Mark, you saved me the time of giving basically the same response. It's Gods work. It is our job not to hinder His work, to submit to His will. And even in that, in all of our diligent seeking and faithful obedience, He remains the Author and Finisher of our faith.

JonasDaniels · Dec 12, 2024

Mark Quayle said:
Funny, about John 6:29. It is one of many statements in Scripture I have come to see as a play on words. He was asked, “What must we do to perform the works (plural) of God?” I don't think he answered it how they expected, and even after he answered it, they still did not pick up on his use of "work (singular) of God", "This is the work of God, that you should believe in Him whom He has sent." I wasn't there so I don't know if he emphasized, "of God", but I like to imagine he did, yet apparently he left it ambiguous enough that they still thought the work of believing is theirs to accomplish, even as some do now, not realizing that it is the WORK OF GOD that we should believe in the One that God sent.

The, "should", in, "...that you should believe..." as the Berean Literal Version (which I quoted above) states it, is in the present subjunctive active, which doesn't necessarily imply that 'it might or might not happen', nor is it necessarily a statement falling within the 'is-ought' dilemma, as though to give us the moral duty to believe, but simply the BELIEVING being contingent on the WORK OF GOD. It is we, who must "be believing" (the Greek present tense generally denotes continuous action), but if it is the work of God, and not a work of man, then it is done in us or to us, and is not generated by us. We don't do God's Work, as though he owes us salvation as his part of the salvation equation as a result of OUR faith. It is HIS to do, and entirely an act of Grace —"not of works" (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Faith is generated by the Spirit of God when he takes up residence in the person, changing the person from death to life. It IS our faith, and our believing, because it is done to US, and totally changes US, and WE are wrapped up in it, and driven along by it.

We usually ask the wrong questions of God. And the crowd, too, were thinking in terms of doing what God requires. But his listeners got his answer wrong, just as they got most of his sayings wrong, and throughout the Gospels he purposely spoke such sayings in a way that they could misunderstand, in riddles, parables and in disturbingly dark, extreme or deep statements. They asked him what sign he would do that would convince them to believe!

To this day, we still insist it is OUR duty, and God continues to say it in such a way that for some of us, we would consider it possible to generate such a faith in and of ourselves! Even those of us who think we have the riddle figured out, still insist from time to time that it is because WE have it right, that we have that faith. We are all hypocrites.

This was one of the very first things revealed to me by the Holy Spirit after meeting Christ, and has been repeatedly confirmed through the years. John 6:29 is still one of my favorite passages to this day.

Well said Brother Mark

What must we do to do the works God requires?

We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.

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