Another jesus. Another gospel.

JesusFollowerForever · Jul 20, 2024

HIM said:
All is said in context to chapter 3 verse 10.

I am done. You can’t see and it ain’t fine but I won’t go and on . The context is in that verse and chapter to which law he is speaking in respect what we are not under. And it is the Book of the Law and the ten are in it just as they are on the tablets.

And as was said, it is the law that is said to be put in our hearts and in suit it says His word. Not the ten though they are included. I studied and taught what you think and teach but God has shown us it isn’t right.

Love ya and don’t expect you not to answer this but know unless you post something relevant we are done. I won’t be responsible for you to continue.

Him, you can think what you will the bible and Jesus words are clear, the moral law or the commandments are not abolished but the penalty of sin as Paul explains, It is a shame that all of the bible except for paul words seem to point that the commandments are abolished, the following verse proves that if what you say is true then Paul is condemned, please read carefully;

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 (KJV)

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God."

This passage instructs that anyone who tries to lead others away from following God's commandments should be put to death as they are considered a false prophet.

Paul said the commandments are true and Holy.

You fight scripture that is the word of God and the son of God.

Romans 7:12 (KJV):
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

In this verse, the Apostle Paul affirms the righteousness and goodness of God's commandments, their holiness and justice. will you negate this also?

Since you are Hostile to God's words, These are my very last words for you, from;

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (KJV):

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

Proverbs 3:1-2 (KJV):

"My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee."

May The Lord bring you Understanding according to His Will.

HIM · Jul 20, 2024

JesusFollowerForever said:
Him, you can think what you will the bible and Jesus words are clear, the moral law or the commandments are not abolished but the penalty of sin as Paul explains, It is a shame that all of the bible except for paul words seem to point that the commandments are abolished, the following verse proves that if what you say is true then Paul is condemned, please read carefully;

Deuteronomy 13:1-5 (KJV)

"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God."

This passage instructs that anyone who tries to lead others away from following God's commandments should be put to death as they are considered a false prophet.

Paul said the commandments are true and Holy.

You fight scripture that is the word of God and the son of God.

Romans 7:12 (KJV):
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

In this verse, the Apostle Paul affirms the righteousness and goodness of God's commandments, their holiness and justice. will you negate this also?

Since you are Hostile to God's words, These are my very last words for you, from;

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (KJV):

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."

Proverbs 3:1-2 (KJV):

"My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee."

May The Lord bring you Understanding according to His Will.

Save all that huh.
We are or have become what He has intended. The Law, His Word is in our heart. We are new creation in Christ and all is new and of God! That is the Faith in which we preach. What good is the Book if we have become what it intended in Christ? We are begotten by the Word of truth. We are a new creation in and of Christ and it is God that works through us to both will and do His good pleasure. As Jesus said, God doeth the work.

He was first amongst many brethren. We have the word manifested in our flesh. He has not left us comfort less. He has came unto us. He in us, us in Him that the world believe.

Icyspark · Jul 21, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
He was without sin. He was above the law.

Hi Maria Billingsley,

In relation to this comment I asked you when Jesus went from being under the law to being above the law.

Your response is below.

Maria Billingsley said:
Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the Flesh. Do you really think our Creator, who always existed ,is under the Mosaic Law? Let us reason. The law was created for the disobedient man. He was not disobedient. He fulfilled the law , as He said He would. Only God can do that.

It is apparent that you are not familiar with what the Bible says about Jesus and the law.

Galatians 4:4, 5

But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

So, now that you've been shown what the Bible actually says about Jesus being "born under the law," at what point do you suppose He went from being under the law to being "above the law"? I don't want to hear your personal opinion or conjecturing (which is what you provided above (i.e., "Do you really think our Creator ..."). Please supply Scriptural evidence for your position. If you can't, then why not just let the Bible be understood in its normative sense?

Here're a few more questions:

How could Jesus have "fulfilled the law" if He was "above the law"?
How do you know Jesus wasn't "disobedient"? If He's above the law, then the law doesn't apply to Him and obedience or disobedience is irrelephant.
What do you mean, "The law was created for the disobedient man"? Was Adam a "disobedient man" when God forbade him from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? The law is "holy, righteous and good." Where there is no law, there is no sin.
Do you believe the author of Hebrews when he wrote that Jesus was "fully human in every way"?
If Jesus was "fully human in every way" and He was "born under the law," shouldn't that tell you that His sinlessness was not merely a said sinlessness, but was in fact a real sinlessness? Jesus asked those wishing to condemn Him, "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin?" Of those He asked this question, no one could respond with, "Yes, we can!" Not even at His trial were the Jewish leaders able to prove Him guilty of sin. How is it that you think you can do better at accusing our Savior of transgression of the law He was "born under" than those who were present with Him at the time?

"Let us reason."

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Icyspark · Jul 25, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
He was without sin. He was above the law.

Hi Maria Billingsley,

I like to think that people are being honest in their responses, especially if they claim to be Christians. I just supplied a Bible text which contradicts and counteracts your above assertion which you then "defended" based on the sparks of your own imagination:

Maria Billingsley said:
Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the Flesh. Do you really think our Creator, who always existed ,is under the Mosaic Law? Let us reason. The law was created for the disobedient man. He was not disobedient. He fulfilled the law , as He said He would. Only God can do that.

So you elevate what you "think" and reject what the Bible plainly SAYS, which is that Jesus was "born UNDER THE LAW."

It doesn't matter what you "think" or what I "think", but rather, what does the Bible say?

To be fair, your disappearance from the discussion—while not ideal—is at least a better option than some of the other false teachers I've encountered who double down on their errant teachings regardless of what they've been shown from the Bible. That said, I'd presume that a true Christian would acknowledge a biblical correction received and incorporate this truth in their previously unbiblical, opinion-based position.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Maria Billingsley · Jul 26, 2024

Icyspark said:
Hi Maria Billingsley,

I like to think that people are being honest in their responses, especially if they claim to be Christians. I just supplied a Bible text which contradicts and counteracts your above assertion which you then "defended" based on the sparks of your own imagination:

So you elevate what you "think" and reject what the Bible plainly SAYS, which is that Jesus was "born UNDER THE LAW."

It doesn't matter what you "think" or what I "think", but rather, what does the Bible say?

To be fair, your disappearance from the discussion—while not ideal—is at least a better option than some of the other false teachers I've encountered who double down on their errant teachings regardless of what they've been shown from the Bible. That said, I'd presume that a true Christian would acknowledge a biblical correction received and incorporate this truth in their previously unbiblical, opinion-based position.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

You seem to be quite bothered that I know Jesus Christ of Nazareth was sinless and was above the law though born into it. Well what you are failing to realize is that the law was made for sinners in which Jesus Christ of Nazareth was not one of them. Here is a chapter in 1 Timothy to explain further.
Be blessed.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Icyspark · Jul 26, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
You seem to be quite bothered that I know Jesus Christ of Nazareth was sinless and was above the law though born into it.

Hi Maria Billingsley,

Here we go. Instead of just letting the text read the way I just quoted it, you just put your own twist on it in order to make it more align with your aberrant belief.

Paul says Jesus was, "born under the law."
Maria says Jesus was, "above the law though BORN INTO IT."

Yikes! It's just fascinating how some false teachers are so willing to overtly manipulate the Bible to make it say things completely opposite to what it clearly says and means. On discussion forums, icy this a lot. In your case you not only REJECTED Paul's completely OPPOSITE version of Jesus's relation to the law, you leaned into your previous FALSE TEACHING and added more of the same to make it doubly heretical. "Born INTO it"? Why can't you just let the Bible say what it says? Why? Because a plain reading of the Scriptures doesn't allow you to lovingly embrace your heretical teaching.

Maria Billingsley said:
Well what you are failing to realize is that the law was made for sinners in which Jesus Christ of Nazareth was not one of them.

Maybe this might seem like a plausible explanation for those who are not well-versed in their knowledge of the Scriptures. My feeling is that the way you just rejected Paul's clear statement above in favor of the contradictory nonsense you spouted after being corrected gives me the impression that you're already aware that what you're promoting is a false teaching. Thus, my responses to you are mainly for those lurkers who may not have a good response to how to rebut your heresy, even though they know it's heresy when they read it.

Certainly Jesus was sinless (although there's a current thread on this forum in which "Christians" are making Jesus into a sinner because they claim He transgressed the Sabbath law He was "born under."). So, here's my response to your premise that the law was made for sinners and thus it doesn't apply to Jesus.

First, Jesus was "fully human in every way."
Second, Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Third, "John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance."

So, according to your precarious premise, why is it that our perfect, sinless Savior needed to be baptized? Was He a sinner who needed to repent? According to you, that's the only possible option if we read the passage exactly how it's written.

Maria Billingsley said:
Here is a chapter in 1 Timothy to explain further.

Be blessed.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Maria Billingsley · Jul 26, 2024

Icyspark said:
Hi Maria Billingsley,

Here we go. Instead of just letting the text read the way I just quoted it, you just put your own twist on it in order to make it more align with your aberrant belief.

Paul says Jesus was, "born under the law."

Maria says Jesus was, "above the law though BORN INTO IT."

Yikes! It's just fascinating how some false teachers are so willing to overtly manipulate the Bible to make it say things completely opposite to what it clearly says and means. On discussion forums, icy this a lot. In your case you not only REJECTED Paul's completely OPPOSITE version of Jesus's relation to the law, you leaned into your previous FALSE TEACHING and added more of the same to make it doubly heretical. "Born INTO it"? Why can't you just let the Bible say what it says? Why? Because a plain reading of the Scriptures doesn't allow you to lovingly embrace your heretical teaching.

Maybe this might seem like a plausible explanation for those who are not well-versed in their knowledge of the Scriptures. My feeling is that the way you just rejected Paul's clear statement above in favor of the contradictory nonsense you spouted after being corrected gives me the impression that you're already aware that what you're promoting is a false teaching. Thus, my responses to you are mainly for those lurkers who may not have a good response to how to rebut your heresy, even though they know it's heresy when they read it.

Certainly Jesus was sinless (although there's a current thread on this forum in which "Christians" are making Jesus into a sinner because they claim He transgressed the Sabbath law He was "born under."). So, here's my response to your premise that the law was made for sinners and thus it doesn't apply to Jesus.

First, Jesus was "fully human in every way."

Second, Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.

Third, "John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance."

So, according to your precarious premise, why is it that our perfect, sinless Savior needed to be baptized? Was He a sinner who needed to repent? According to you, that's the only possible option if we read the passage exactly how it's written.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Ok thanks for sharing.
Be blessed.

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JesusFollowerForever

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HIM

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Maria Billingsley

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