• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Criminals released in Arizona by Border Patrol later arrested in New England

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
12,818
6,177
Minnesota
✟343,423.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Critics argue a significant threat wouldn’t exist if Border Patrol agents were properly vetting and processing for removal illegal border crossers under the law. While Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas claims they are being vetted, the DHS Inspector General has repeatedly refuted this argument. One recent OIG report found that even after Congress allocated $1 billion for facial recognition and other technology to perform background checks, extensive vetting deficiencies exist, The Center Square reported. Another found federal agents aren’t detaining illegal border crossers, and because of Mayorkas policies, are processing those deemed inadmissible under the law for release, not removal, The Center Square reported.https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_407cc96e-389b-11ef-809d-1b79dee76590.html
Criminals and terrorists pouring over our border.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Vambram

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Critics argue a significant threat wouldn’t exist if Border Patrol agents were properly vetting and processing for removal illegal border crossers under the law. While Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas claims they are being vetted, the DHS Inspector General has repeatedly refuted this argument. One recent OIG report found that even after Congress allocated $1 billion for facial recognition and other technology to perform background checks, extensive vetting deficiencies exist, The Center Square reported. Another found federal agents aren’t detaining illegal border crossers, and because of Mayorkas policies, are processing those deemed inadmissible under the law for release, not removal, The Center Square reported.https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_407cc96e-389b-11ef-809d-1b79dee76590.html
Criminals and terrorists pouring over our border.
Dang, isn't New England around ~2000 miles from Arizona? How didn't these guys get vetted out properly, or caught after traveling 2200 miles (3600 km)? This is many days drive, or a four hour flight, and security at the airport(s) could have vetted these guys out.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
12,818
6,177
Minnesota
✟343,423.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Dang, isn't New England around ~2000 miles from Arizona? How didn't these guys get vetted out properly, or caught after traveling 2200 miles (3600 km)? This is many days drive, or a four hour flight, and security at the airport(s) could have vetted these guys out.
The Biden administration has hidden a lot of their transportation methods. They've flown a half a million people in directly that apparently are not counted in their border numbers. We know that illegals do not need the identification required of American citizens.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The Biden administration has hidden a lot of their transportation methods. They've flown a half a million people in directly that apparently are not counted in their border numbers. We know that illegals do not need the identification required of American citizens.
Hopefully, the future administration changes this. Well, if not in 2024, then in 2028. And, I am not talking about Trump, but potentially a new crop of Republicans, or more moderate Democrats.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
12,818
6,177
Minnesota
✟343,423.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Hopefully, the future administration changes this. Well, if not in 2024, then in 2028. And, I am not talking about Trump, but potentially a new crop of Republicans, or more moderate Democrats.
The corruption is quite entrenched within the government. Term limits would be a good start.
 
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The corruption is quite entrenched within the government. Term limits would be a good start.
Agreed. And term duration limits also, such as 6 years for senators (already the case), with two terms maximum (has not been implemented). Governors should also only have 4 year terms, with two maximum (already the case).

However, Supreme Court justices should have term duration limits of 12-18 years in my opinion, with a single term (has not been implemented).
 
Upvote 0

Vambram

Born-again Christian; Constitutional conservative
Site Supporter
Dec 3, 2006
8,449
6,012
61
Saint James, Missouri
✟437,883.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Agreed. And term duration limits also, such as 6 years for senators (already the case), with two terms maximum (has not been implemented). Governors should also only have 4 year terms, with two maximum (already the case).

However, Supreme Court justices should have term duration limits of 12-18 years in my opinion, with a single term (has not been implemented).
The biggest disagreement that I have with you here is that I don't believe that the SCOTUS ought to have term limits or term duration. I prefer the way this was laid out in the US Constitution.
 
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The biggest disagreement that I have with you here is that I don't believe that the SCOTUS ought to have term limits or term duration. I prefer the way this was laid out in the US Constitution.
I understand. But, hey, I believe that SCOTUS officials should be able to hang out with their family after reaching a certain age or time of being in office, but yes, the Constitution did not set out any term limits. :)

For myself, it would be rough having to be in a high-stakes position at age 80+. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was 87 when she passed away, and was in court duties up through that time in 2020. A retirement age of 80, or term duration of 20 years could be a compromise.

AP News
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
23,129
14,264
Earth
✟255,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
I understand. But, hey, I believe that SCOTUS officials should be able to hang out with their family after reaching a certain age or time of being in office, but yes, the Constitution did not set out any term limits. :)

For myself, it would be rough having to be in a high-stakes position at age 80+. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was 87 when she passed away, and was in court duties up through that time in 2020. A retirement age of 80, or term duration of 20 years could be a compromise.

AP News
I could go along with term-limits on SCOTUS if they were routinely rolled-over.
(Say an eight-year term where each justice was automatically renewed to a new term, (barring ethics violations and obvious incompetency in matters before the court)).

But this would likely require fiddling with the Constitution and who wants that?
 
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I could go along with term-limits on SCOTUS if they were routinely rolled-over.
(Say an eight-year term where each justice was automatically renewed to a new term, (barring ethics violations and obvious incompetency in matters before the court).

But this would likely require fiddling with the Constitution and who wants that?
That would be a good idea, but yes, fiddling with the Constitution would be difficult, and something we should not do that often.

I'd say a 12-year term that is rolled over automatically, but 8 works as well.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Dang, isn't New England around ~2000 miles from Arizona? How didn't these guys get vetted out properly, or caught after traveling 2200 miles (3600 km)? This is many days drive, or a four hour flight, and security at the airport(s) could have vetted these guys out.

The simple answer is often the correct answer....

They aren't being vetted.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I could go along with term-limits on SCOTUS if they were routinely rolled-over.
(Say an eight-year term where each justice was automatically renewed to a new term, (barring ethics violations and obvious incompetency in matters before the court)).

But this would likely require fiddling with the Constitution and who wants that?

This sort of defeats the whole point of the SCOTUS.

When you don't have to campaign for the job or worry about being fired....you cannot be pressured by politicians or businessmen with deep pockets.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The simple answer is often the correct answer....

They aren't being vetted.
Agreed. We need AI tech at these airports for facial recognition as a check-in, and those speed cameras on the highways modified to catch anyone without a license. :) However, too much AI tech could be bad also, but as airports are high-risk areas, the more tech, the better.

TLDR: We need to vet everyone who enters an airport, or enters from borders.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Agreed. We need AI tech at these airports for facial recognition as a check-in, and those speed cameras on the highways modified to catch anyone without a license. :) However, too much AI tech could be bad also, but as airports are high-risk areas, the more tech, the better.

TLDR: We need to vet everyone who enters an airport, or enters from borders.

I agree...and whether you believe me or not, I know someone in the border patrol. When we started seeing more crimes from illegals like rape, murders, and organized gangs....I asked him why we have a hard time spotting these people when they enter. 2 answers made sense, the third was shocking.

1. They don't have access to their criminal records in foreign countries. Many of the nations they come from don't even have electronic databases. Those that do don't give us access most of the time.

2. Time constraints. Crossing illegally is a federal misdemeanor. They can only hold people for X amount of days without charging them. When the border was swamped in places with hundreds of crossings a day....apparently, people were held for weeks before they had records checks done or their cases vetted. They find out that a guy was convicted of rape in Florida a decade ago....well if they were going to reject his asylum plea for that and send him back for crossing illegally...the time limit for charging him ended a week ago and he would be released to Florida with a court date he was asked to show up to 3 years from now. It's an entirely broken system not meant to handle that amount of traffic.

3. Finally, and you won't believe this, apparently the Border Patrol was under orders to accept whatever the illegal said as true. Seriously. The Biden administration used executive orders to roll back all safeguards. If someone came in with no ID, and fingerprints confirmed they were a Mexican gang member with murder warrants in Texas...if they said that they had a twin brother and they weren't the subject with the same fingerprints and picture....they were to be treated as if that was true lol. Little kids who were clearly being trafficked and couldn't explain anything about where they were from or the uncle's brother-in-law's stepfather's cousin that they were going to live with in New York were simply handed over to these scumbags as if the whole story was true. I asked how many asylum seekers he thought were lying...he said 99 out of 100. I said he must be exaggerating. He gave me an example...he said he did hundreds of cases for Brazilians because he spoke a little Portuguese. He doesn't know how many....but he guesses 800-1000 cases. He said they all had the same lie for why they wanted asylum. He could recall maybe 3 that were different. They all claimed that they had a small business of some sort...that covid ruined their business...that they took a loan from a loan shark, and were fleeing Brazil because they couldn't pay it back.

For starters, this isn't a reason for asylum....ever. They should have been rejected on the spot, and apparently they were in the past before Obama's second term. Secondly, it's obviously a lie. Imagine all these loan sharks not getting their money back because their victims all fled the country....they'd stop giving out loans. Thirdly, if this was a reason for asylum... they crossed half a dozen nations without requesting it. Finally, because it was obviously a story that the cartels told them to say....they had no details which they could provide as evidence. No name for the loan shark, no name of the business, no record of their business existing. One person even told him she didn't want to return to Brazil because she was scared of sharks....she didn't even understand the lie she was telling. They all got let into the US with asylum hearings years from now.

That's why I support ending asylum....entirely. End it until the changes that are necessary to fix it are made. It's supposed to be for people fleeing state violence and oppression. It's used as a means of cheap illegal labor to replace the slavery we outlawed. When slavery ended...the southern poor got richer. They got paid better wages for farm work. They got paid better wages for all work. Education and literacy improved. It benefitted not just the slaves...but the poor as well. Zelensky is requiring foreign nationals to return to the Ukraine to renew their passports so he can force them into the military. European nations are supporting this....when these people should be able to avoid returning and stay out of the Ukraine because of asylum. It's a joke now....it was a good if naive idea after WW2, but now it doesn't even save anyone from war and it only seems to benefit criminals and terrorists. The economic migrants are being duped into a situation they don't really understand. Look at NYC...the Africans are complaining about not getting enough welfare, food, and shelter....and they supposedly came here because they were scared of being killed....not because they were expecting handouts. Despite this, it appears they were expecting handouts, and were never in any real danger.
 
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I agree...and whether you believe me or not, I know someone in the border patrol. When we started seeing more crimes from illegals like rape, murders, and organized gangs....I asked him why we have a hard time spotting these people when they enter. 2 answers made sense, the third was shocking.

1. They don't have access to their criminal records in foreign countries. Many of the nations they come from don't even have electronic databases. Those that do don't give us access most of the time.

2. Time constraints. Crossing illegally is a federal misdemeanor. They can only hold people for X amount of days without charging them. When the border was swamped in places with hundreds of crossings a day....apparently, people were held for weeks before they had records checks done or their cases vetted. They find out that a guy was convicted of rape in Florida a decade ago....well if they were going to reject his asylum plea for that and send him back for crossing illegally...the time limit for charging him ended a week ago and he would be released to Florida with a court date he was asked to show up to 3 years from now. It's an entirely broken system not meant to handle that amount of traffic.

3. Finally, and you won't believe this, apparently the Border Patrol was under orders to accept whatever the illegal said as true. Seriously. The Biden administration used executive orders to roll back all safeguards. If someone came in with no ID, and fingerprints confirmed they were a Mexican gang member with murder warrants in Texas...if they said that they had a twin brother and they weren't the subject with the same fingerprints and picture....they were to be treated as if that was true lol. Little kids who were clearly being trafficked and couldn't explain anything about where they were from or the uncle's brother-in-law's stepfather's cousin that they were going to live with in New York were simply handed over to these scumbags as if the whole story was true. I asked how many asylum seekers he thought were lying...he said 99 out of 100. I said he must be exaggerating. He gave me an example...he said he did hundreds of cases for Brazilians because he spoke a little Portuguese. He doesn't know how many....but he guesses 800-1000 cases. He said they all had the same lie for why they wanted asylum. He could recall maybe 3 that were different. They all claimed that they had a small business of some sort...that covid ruined their business...that they took a loan from a loan shark, and were fleeing Brazil because they couldn't pay it back.

For starters, this isn't a reason for asylum....ever. They should have been rejected on the spot, and apparently they were in the past before Obama's second term. Secondly, it's obviously a lie. Imagine all these loan sharks not getting their money back because their victims all fled the country....they'd stop giving out loans. Thirdly, if this was a reason for asylum... they crossed half a dozen nations without requesting it. Finally, because it was obviously a story that the cartels told them to say....they had no details which they could provide as evidence. No name for the loan shark, no name of the business, no record of their business existing. One person even told him she didn't want to return to Brazil because she was scared of sharks....she didn't even understand the lie she was telling. They all got let into the US with asylum hearings years from now.

That's why I support ending asylum....entirely. End it until the changes that are necessary to fix it are made. It's supposed to be for people fleeing state violence and oppression. It's used as a means of cheap illegal labor to replace the slavery we outlawed. When slavery ended...the southern poor got richer. They got paid better wages for farm work. They got paid better wages for all work. Education and literacy improved. It benefitted not just the slaves...but the poor as well. Zelensky is requiring foreign nationals to return to the Ukraine to renew their passports so he can force them into the military. European nations are supporting this....when these people should be able to avoid returning and stay out of the Ukraine because of asylum. It's a joke now....it was a good if naive idea after WW2, but now it doesn't even save anyone from war and it only seems to benefit criminals and terrorists. The economic migrants are being duped into a situation they don't really understand. Look at NYC...the Africans are complaining about not getting enough welfare, food, and shelter....and they supposedly came here because they were scared of being killed....not because they were expecting handouts. Despite this, it appears they were expecting handouts, and were never in any real danger.
I do support certain forms of asylum, but only after proper vetting, and after a proper reason (such as persecution, or war). Fleeing from a loan shark, or for committing a crime in another nation should never be an excuse for asylum. If the country does not offer electronic records, then paper records must be sent over to the US. While the asylum seeker waits, he should be held in a secure location until the vetting process is over. Sadly, the US let these folks go out willy nilly without vetting them.

In summary, I agree with you, and asylum seekers should have proper reasons to enter, only after extensive vetting. The vetting process should be payed for by the asylum seeker, or if not possible, by the asylum seeker's nation, as long as nothing suspicious happens. If no valid reason is found, or documents are unclear, the asylum seeker should be turned away. Maybe another country would open up for them, and have to suffer the consequences of getting a man (criminal) who runs away from loan sharks or committing a crime in their home nation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
23,129
14,264
Earth
✟255,677.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
That would be a good idea, but yes, fiddling with the Constitution would be difficult, and something we should not do that often.
We don’t do it nearly often enough, (IME)!
Imagine would we could achieve if we tweak the Second Amendment so that some infringement was “okay”!

I'd say a 12-year term that is rolled over automatically, but 8 works as well.
And since we’re fiddling with the High Court anyways, set a full court at 21 Justices (including the Chief).
But wean them in, two per presidential term until it’s all padded out.
 
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
We don’t do it nearly often enough, (IME)!
Imagine would we could achieve if we tweak the Second Amendment so that some infringement was “okay”!


And since we’re fiddling with the High Court anyways, set a full court at 21 Justices (including the Chief).
But wean them in, two per presidential term until it’s all padded out.
Actually, 21 justices makes plenty of sense. That means verdicts would be closer, say a 11-10 vote, or 9-12 vote by the justices. Tweaking the 2nd amendment would be difficult. I'd say that dangerous gun owners or folks with mental health issues should not own any, but that would not fly well. Also, AKs and AR-15s have got to go. Nobody needs an AK, when a simple hunting rifle would work better. Also, folks need a reason to own any gun besides a hunting rifle. (I do not hunt, so therefore, I do not own any firearms). The Russian man who invented the AK (an Orthodox Christian) felt regrets for inventing the high powered weapon. God bless this man for repenting. :)


Kalashnikov Regrets inventing the AK due to spiritual pain:
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Actually, 21 justices makes plenty of sense. That means verdicts would be closer, say a 11-10 vote, or 9-12 vote by the justices. Tweaking the 2nd amendment would be difficult. I'd say that dangerous gun owners or folks with mental health issues should not own any, but that would not fly well. Also, AKs and AR-15s have got to go. Nobody needs an AK, when a simple hunting rifle would work better. Also, folks need a reason to own any gun besides a hunting rifle. (I do not hunt, so therefore, I do not own any firearms). The Russian man who invented the AK (an Orthodox Christian) felt regrets for inventing the high powered weapon. God bless this man for repenting. :)


Kalashnikov Regrets inventing the AK due to spiritual pain:


Fun fact, London's per capita murder rate surpassed NYC's recently. Very few shootings in London as guns are illegal.

Edit- it's also unclear what sort of problem is solved by adding term limits to SCOTUS appointments or increasing the number of justices.
 
Upvote 0

Offline4Better.

Christian
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,384
7,707
✟668,648.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Fun fact, London's per capita murder rate surpassed NYC's recently. Very few shootings in London as guns are illegal.

Edit- it's also unclear what sort of problem is solved by adding term limits to SCOTUS appointments or increasing the number of justices.
Wow, London has a higher murder rate compared to NYC? Glad I do not live in London, and I mean no offense to Londoners. And yes, I am not sure how we can solve any problems with SCOTUS term limits. We just need people that are mentally sound, but I am not a doctor. Luckily, none of the justices are old now (yet). More justices mean we could have closer results, but hey, we already have 9, which is better than nothing.
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
39,990
12,573
✟487,130.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I do support certain forms of asylum, but only after proper vetting, and after a proper reason (such as persecution, or war). Fleeing from a loan shark, or for committing a crime in another nation should never be an excuse for asylum. If the country does not offer electronic records, then paper records must be sent over to the US. While the asylum seeker waits, he should be held in a secure location until the vetting process is over. Sadly, the US let these folks go out willy nilly without vetting them.

The idea that we "have a place" for the 2 million people who crossed in 2021 alone to "wait until they are vetted" is funny but unrealistic.

How about this....if you can't give a basic layman's explanation of asylum in a couple of sentences....automatic rejection. Just explain what it is and who it's for. Otherwise, how can you possibly apply for it?



In summary, I agree with you, and asylum seekers should have proper reasons to enter, only after extensive vetting. The vetting process should be payed for by the asylum seeker,

By the time they've crossed illegally? They're typically in debt to human traffickers. They'll spend years in some basement with 40 people like them giving most of their wages to traffickers.



or if not possible, by the asylum seeker's nation, as long as nothing suspicious happens.

These are poor people without jobs. This is how their nations deal with poverty. They won't pay for them to sit in jail for years while they dig up records.

Remember, asylum is for people fleeing their government. Their government won't help or pay for the process.



If no valid reason is found, or documents are unclear, the asylum seeker should be turned away. Maybe another country would open up for them, and have to suffer the consequences of getting a man (criminal) who runs away from loan sharks or committing a crime in their home nation.

Maybe you missed the point of that story...there's no loan sharks lol. These people are committing mass asylum fraud. The idea you have about documents is also pretty telling....you live in a nation where you have a birth certificates, driver's license, school records, criminal records....

They live in places where maybe they have birth certificates and IDs....maybe.
 
Upvote 0