Harrison Butker talks abortion, fatherhood and a trans activist's funeral

BPPLEE said:

Yes, I was wrong about that.

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It used to be that way. Things have changed for suicides.

RileyG said:

Christians are meant to be countercultural to begin with. A lot of what he says is unpopular? So what? Ultimately he will answer to God and no one else.

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But is his brand of counterculturalism authentically Catholic? Is it authentically Benedictine?

Here's what the college's founders have to say:

The sisters of Mount St. Scholastica, who describe their group as a founding institution and sponsor of Benedictine College, just shared a statement about the professional football player's speech, saying his comments don't “represent the Catholic, Benedictine, liberal arts college that our founders envisioned and in which we have been so invested."

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I guess Butker's speech represents the Peter principle at work. He has finally found an area--academia--in which he will never be sought after for endorsements, asked to give graduation speeches, etc. He is damaged goods in the collegiate marketplace.

RileyG said:

It used to be that way. Things have changed for suicides.

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What changed?

Did God change his mind? In which case, what other things may he change his mind about in the future?

Did the church’s understanding of what God wants change? In which case, what else might they currently be getting wrong?

GreatLakes4Ever said:

What changed?

Did God change his mind? In which case, what other things may he change his mind about in the future?

Did the church’s understanding of what God wants change? In which case, what else might they currently be getting wrong?

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The Church's view of God has changed from being a judgmental enforcer to a loving, merciful parent. I always find it interesting that many people still want to think of God as the judgmental enforcer--as long as the sinner is someone else.

GreatLakes4Ever said:

What changed?

Did God change his mind? In which case, what other things may he change his mind about in the future?

Did the church’s understanding of what God wants change? In which case, what else might they currently be getting wrong?

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It’s about God’s mercy.

No, God does not change, he’s immutable.

Fantine said:

But is his brand of counterculturalism authentically Catholic? Is it authentically Benedictine?

Here's what the college's founders have to say:


I guess Butker's speech represents the Peter principle at work. He has finally found an area--academia--in which he will never be sought after for endorsements, asked to give graduation speeches, etc. He is damaged goods in the collegiate marketplace.

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It really depends. I would say I don’t agree with everything he says, but a lot of what he said in his speech does line up with Catholic teaching.

Fantine said:

Here's what the college's founders have to say:

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Their statement says this:

The sisters seem wholly unaware of the words of Jesus Christ, who said:


Sounds like Jesus was fostering division. I wonder if the sisters will condemn his words as well.

GreatLakes4Ever said:

What changed?

Did God change his mind? In which case, what other things may he change his mind about in the future?

Did the church’s understanding of what God wants change? In which case, what else might they currently be getting wrong?

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God is faithful, dependable but not static. The church's understanding is certainly capable of development and deeper insight.
Do you think the church has gotten anything wrong?

RileyG said:

It’s about God’s mercy.

No, God does not change, he’s immutable.

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I was taught that about God as well. That means the church got it wrong about not having services for those who died because of suicide. What else might they still be doing wrong today?

Akita Suggagaki said:

God is faithful, dependable but not static. The church's understanding is certainly capable of development and deeper insight.
Do you think the church has gotten anything wrong?

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Malachi 3:6 disagrees with you. “I, the Lord, do not change.”

I think the church has gotten a lot of things wrong. But due to my non belief in the deity they worship, my list of things they got wrong is going to be viewed largely as irrelevant.

You admitting that the church is still developing their understanding of God means everything they claim is possibly incorrect.

probinson said:

Their statement says this:

Instead of promoting unity in our church, our nation, and the world, his comments seem to have fostered division.​

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The sisters seem wholly unaware of the words of Jesus Christ, who said:

Matthew 10:34-36 (KJV)​

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.​

Sounds like Jesus was fostering division. I wonder if the sisters will condemn his words as well.

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Benedictines don't cherry pick Bible verses to redefine Jesus based on random phrases inconsistent with the total picture.

Their view of Jesus is based on the entire Gospel. Jesus, Warrior King is a myth promoted by weapons afficianados.

Fantine said:

Benedictines don't cherry pick Bible verses to redefine Jesus based on random phrases inconsistent with the total picture.

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Fantine said:

Their view of Jesus is based on the entire Gospel.

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Oh. The ENTIRE Gospel. Sounds good. Pretty empty and meaningless words, but it sure sounds good.

Fantine said:

Jesus, Warrior King is a myth promoted by weapons afficianados.

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What are you even talking about?

What do you believe Jesus meant when he said this?

probinson said:

Oh. The ENTIRE Gospel. Sounds good. Pretty empty and meaningless words, but it sure sounds good.



What are you even talking about?

What do you believe Jesus meant when he said this?

Matthew 10:34-36 (KJV)​

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household..​

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Benedictine communities pray 4 to 7 times a day, hear the Gospel preached at Mass 365 days a year, practice Lectio Divina. Benedictine monks painfully transcribed the Bible by hand for 15 centuries before the printing press was invented.

Your view that this outlier phrase definitively describes Jesus doesn't hold up against the religious order who preserved the Bible--just to be read by people hunting for an excuse to be aggressive.

GreatLakes4Ever said:

Malachi 3:6 disagrees with you. “I, the Lord, do not change.”

I think the church has gotten a lot of things wrong. But due to my non belief in the deity they worship, my list of things they got wrong is going to be viewed largely as irrelevant.

You admitting that the church is still developing their understanding of God means everything they claim is possibly incorrect.

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You take Malachi out of context. But then so many do likewise. It refers to God's morality and faithfulness.
I am willing to admit that somethings are still possibly incorrect. the trick to determining which.

Fantine said:

Benedictine communities pray 4 to 7 times a day, hear the Gospel preached at Mass 365 days a year, practice Lectio Divina. Benedictine monks painfully transcribed the Bible by hand for 15 centuries before the printing press was invented.

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This is a logical fallacy. Your appeal to authority does not impress me.

Fantine said:

Your view that this outlier phrase definitively describes Jesus doesn't hold up against the religious order who preserved the Bible--just to be read by people hunting for an excuse to be aggressive.

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I'm asking you to tell me what you think these verses mean. You're just trying to dismiss them without offering an explanation as to why they don't mean what they clearly say.

So, what do you think Jesus is saying here?

Akita Suggagaki said:

You take Malachi out of context. But then so many do likewise. It refers to God's morality and faithfulness.
I am willing to admit that somethings are still possibly incorrect. the trick to determining which.

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Then you agree that Exodus 21:20-21 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.” is still moral according to God since you said is morality does not change.

It appears the church got it wrong by deciding slavery is wrong since an unchanging morally God is giving instruction on how to properly punish one’s property.

GreatLakes4Ever said:

I was taught that about God as well. That means the church got it wrong about not having services for those who died because of suicide. What else might they still be doing wrong today?

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Again, if you aren’t a Christian, this doesn’t pertain to you. Why would it matter?

probinson said:

So, what do you think Jesus is saying here?

Matthew 10:34-36 (KJV)​

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.​

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The 10 commandments say we are to honor our father and mother. This seems to be dead set against that purpose.

probinson said:

This is a logical fallacy. Your appeal to authority does not impress me.



I'm asking you to tell me what you think these verses mean. You're just trying to dismiss them without offering an explanation as to why they don't mean what they clearly say.

So, what do you think Jesus is saying here?

Matthew 10:34-36 (KJV)​

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.​

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What that particular verse means to me is that Jesus himself created dissent by challenging religious hypocrites, people who ostracized the strangers--like Samaritans, the proud who bragged about their own religiosity while condemning others.
He never carried a weapon. His sword were his incisive words that laid bare the moral deficiencies of the legalistic and the proud.

RileyG said:

Again, if you aren’t a Christian, this doesn’t pertain to you. Why would it matter?

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Something like 2 out of 3 Americans are Christians. They vote, they have leadership positions in this country, I live amongst them, deal with them in a daily basis. It is important to understand where they are coming from. That is especially true when some of them tell me what I can and can not do based purely on what their religion tells them.