How Old Is The Earth

Diamond7 said:

I think just the opposite that it took God 13 billion years to create Adam. It took God 8 billion years to create the earth. The Bible clearly tells us that God knows the end from the beginning. Before the foundation of the earth, He knew us.

Click to expand...

Despite God telling us that he created everything in 6 days?

Platte said:

Despite God telling us that he created everything in 6 days?

Click to expand...

God did not tell us anything like that. You only have a bronze age text in which the author of the text describes the creation in 6 day intervals.

Another author (or editor) in Genesis 2 put the creation of heavens and earth into one day, for a change.

Platte said:

Despite God telling us that he created everything in 6 days?

Click to expand...

You need to look up the word day in your dictionary. You will find a lot of different definitions. One is an age or era meaning a long period of time.

One example is Acts 2:17 "“’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people." Luke is quoting Joel 2:29 in terms of the church age or the age of grace or the holy spirit dispensation. This 2,000 year period of time is referred to as "days" meaning two days. Each day represents 1,000 years. The third day is a reference to the 1,000 year reign of Christ where we will rule and reign with him for 1,000 years. I tend to think this is symbolic but a lot of people believe that Jesus is going to return to earth for a day or 1,000 years.

If you do not want to accept OEC, TE of dispensationalism that is up to you. Everyone has to decide what they want to believe. I believe that Evolution does more to prove God than anything else because Evolution shows us HOW God did what HE did. As Frances Collins says in his book DNA is the language God uses to create us.

Diamond7 said:

The people back then were hunter gathers. Adam was the first civilized human. Science has put a lot of study into the transition and how civilization spread from the middle east to Europe.

Click to expand...

It seems that you see Adam as a first civilized human, but not necessarily the first human. Do you see God making a specific intervention with one person ("Adam")?

EDIT: I just read some of your other posts, and I see that you believe in long durations of time. OK.

Platte said:

The Bible does not say so we do not know. I would be inclined to say no but there are several things that lead me to think yes 1) Adam & Eve were told to have kids so you’d think they’d get right to it 2) Eve was punished with increase in child bearing. Would only make sense if she had given birth prior without much pain 3) Cain killed a
Abel and went to another town where there were people.

I’d still be inclined to say no but it’s just a guess which is all anyone can give you.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. You are correct that we can not know if my proposal is factual or not. But I feel that if such a situation is POSSIBLE, then it becomes a counterfactual consideration when I am presented with a situation that just doesn't make sense. E.g. a Christian friend that insists that the world MUST BE less than 10,000 yrs old, but my God-given senses seem to be telling me that it is much older than that. To have an "out" via an alternative explanation, consistent with the Bible, is a big relief.

trophy33 said:

God did not tell us anything like that. You only have a bronze age text in which the author of the text describes the creation in 6 day intervals.

Another author (or editor) in Genesis 2 put the creation of heavens and earth into one day, for a change.

Click to expand...

Exodus 20:1...And God spake all these words, saying....
Exodus 20:11...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Diamond7 said:

You need to look up the word day in your dictionary. You will find a lot of different definitions. One is an age or era meaning a long period of time.

One example is Acts 2:17 "“’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people." Luke is quoting Joel 2:29 in terms of the church age or the age of grace or the holy spirit dispensation. This 2,000 year period of time is referred to as "days" meaning two days. Each day represents 1,000 years. The third day is a reference to the 1,000 year reign of Christ where we will rule and reign with him for 1,000 years. I tend to think this is symbolic but a lot of people believe that Jesus is going to return to earth for a day or 1,000 years.

If you do not want to accept OEC, TE of dispensationalism that is up to you. Everyone has to decide what they want to believe. I believe that Evolution does more to prove God than anything else because Evolution shows us HOW God did what HE did. As Frances Collins says in his book DNA is the language God uses to create us.

Click to expand...

Yes of course - context is everything - day can mean more than a 24 hours period.

However the context is a 24 hours period....a regular day. The sabbath is a regular day.

Exodus 20:1...And God spake all these words, saying....
Exodus 20:11...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You can believe anything you want (we have great imaginations) - I choose to believe what God said.

KevinT said:

Thanks for your reply. You are correct that we can not know if my proposal is factual or not. But I feel that if such a situation is POSSIBLE, then it becomes a counterfactual consideration when I am presented with a situation that just doesn't make sense. E.g. a Christian friend that insists that the world MUST BE less than 10,000 yrs old, but my God-given senses seem to be telling me that it is much older than that. To have an "out" via an alternative explanation, consistent with the Bible, is a big relief.

Click to expand...

The God given Bible tell us Creation was about 6000 years ago. We do not know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before they sinned - could have been 50-100 years. If so did they have children - we don't know - I think not but certainly I pointed out some facts that imply it possible.

Platte said:

The God given Bible tell us Creation was about 6000 years ago. We do not know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before they sinned - could have been 50-100 years. If so did they have children - we don't know - I think not but certainly I pointed out some facts that imply it possible.

Click to expand...

If one takes the death of Adam, at age of 930, to mean that Adam died 930 years AFTER CREATION, then I agree that the Bible seems to set the age of the earth at about 6,000. But is it also possible, and more consistent to what we read in God's second book (nature), that the age of Adam's life-clock started when he became mortal, after he sinned? Thus Adam's rebellion was about 6,000 yrs ago, but creation could well have taken place long long before then. Could it be that "Adam" would be better understood as "first man"? I.e. God made First-Man .... then a lot of time passed .... and then First-man sinned? Perhaps they could be different people? Yes, it seems that I am stretching the "plain truth" laid out in the Bible. But when God's reality serves us up conflicting information, I feel it is our duty to struggle to find an answer that fits as many facts as possible. There are many many facts that not consistent with a young earth.

Psalms 104:5 says "He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." So that means that this modern theory of the earth whirling willy-nilly through empty space, going around and around the sun without any apparent means of propulsion, is contrary to the Bible, right? I don't think anyone on this board would agree with this statement. And it shows that we have to filter what was written in a different context long long ago so reach a correct understanding.

Best wishes,
Kevin

Platte said:

Yes of course - context is everything - day can mean more than a 24 hours period.

However the context is a 24 hours period....a regular day. The sabbath is a regular day.

Exodus 20:1...And God spake all these words, saying....
Exodus 20:11...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You can believe anything you want (we have great imaginations) - I choose to believe what God said.

Click to expand...

I agree that God created the Earth in 7 literal days. Many others have a different interpretation, and I don't know that it is vital to salvation, so I don't push the point too much. It does make a difference if one thinks that the day of rest is a literal day, or a 1,000 yrs, so perhaps that aspect is more important.

As a slight nit-pick, I would argue that we don't have a "God said." God, Himself, didn't write the scriptures. They are not like a pdf file that was downloaded from the heavenly internet. What we have is a record, written down by God-fearing people, inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, but still subject to our human condition. Two people giving an eye-witness account of a car crash will produce different reports. They are not lying, but rather reporting how they saw it and understood it. Likewise, different disciples of Jesus gave different accounts in their gospels. And likewise, reports of creation that were passed down through the generations (including the time when the entire world was destroyed through the flood -- sweeping away almost all documentation) are not the same as having God, Himself, pronounce an eternal truth. This distinction is nit-picky, but I fear that when others claim that everything single thing written in the Bible is 100% accurate with no wiggle room for understanding, they are setting themselves up for error, and rejection by outsiders that see discrepancies.

Best wishes,
Kevin

KevinT said:

If one takes the death of Adam, at age of 930, to mean that Adam died 930 years AFTER CREATION, then I agree that the Bible seems to set the age of the earth at about 6,000. But is it also possible, and more consistent to what we read in God's second book (nature), that the age of Adam life-clock started when he became mortal, after he sinned? Thus Adam's rebellion was about 6,000 yrs ago, but creation could well have taken place long long before then. Could it be that "Adam" would be better understood as "first man"? I.e. God made First-Man .... then a lot of time passed .... and then First-man sinned? Perhaps they could be different people? Yes, it seems that I am stretching the "plain truth" laid out in the Bible. But when God's reality serves us up conflicting information, I feel it is our duty to struggle to find an answer that fits as many facts as possible. There are many many facts that not consistent with a young earth.

Psalms 104:5 says "He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." So that means that this modern theory of the earth whirling willy-nilly through empty space, going around and around the sun without any apparent means of propulsion, is contrary to the Bible, right? I don't think anyone on this board would agree with this statement. And it shows that we have to filter what was written in a different context long long ago so reach a correct understanding.

Best wishes,
Kevin

Click to expand...

Why would you want to make things up that contradict the Bible? What are you struggling with that cause you to not accept what is written in the Bible? You say it is possible that the age of Adam started when he became mortal...no that is not possible - the Bible says that ALL the days that Adam lived were 930 years.

KevinT said:

I agree that God created the Earth in 7 literal days. Many others have a different interpretation, and I don't know that it is vital to salvation, so I don't push the point too much. It does make a difference if one thinks that the day of rest is a literal day, or a 1,000 yrs, so perhaps that aspect is more important.

As a slight nit-pick, I would argue that we don't have a "God said." God, Himself, didn't write the scriptures. They are not like a pdf file that was downloaded from the heavenly internet. What we have is a record, written down by God-fearing people, inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, but still subject to our human condition. Two people giving an eye-witness account of a car crash will produce different reports. They are not lying, but rather reporting how they saw it and understood it. Likewise, different disciples of Jesus gave different accounts in their gospels. And likewise, reports of creation that were passed down through the generations (including the time when the entire world was destroyed through the flood -- sweeping away almost all documentation) are not the same as having God, Himself, pronounce an eternal truth. This distinction is nit-picky, but I fear that when others claim that everything single thing written in the Bible is 100% accurate with no wiggle room for understanding, they are setting themselves up for error, and rejection by outsiders that see discrepancies.

Best wishes,
Kevin

Click to expand...

We DO have what God said....unless you don't believe the Bible - then you can nit-pick it. For argument sake - I think it fair that our conversations on this Board accept the Bible.

Platte said:

The sabbath is a regular day

Click to expand...

The 1,000 year reign of Christ is a sabbath. WE have 2,000 years of lawlessness, 2,000 years under the law, 2,000 years of grace and then we have the 1,000 year reign of Christ where the government will rest on His shoulders. They have many many names for the church age or dispensation. I do not see how anyone can argue against dispensationalism, when a day is clearly 1,000 years. Moses and Peter BOTH tell us that one day is 1,000 years. There is no mystery about that. We know 13,000 years ago the earth was covered with ice and there was a major extinction at the time as the earth began to warm and the ice melted. Clearly without Clearly Genesis 1:2 without form and void would apply. Even Jeremiah 4 23 talks about this: "I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone."

Peter tells us don't be ignorant: 2Pet. 3. [8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Moses himself in Psalm 90 talks about "everlasting to everlasting" Moses uses this word in Genesis 3:22 "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. ' Adam was given 1,000 years yet we are told in the DAY he shall eat he shall die.

So we have it all in the story of Adam, on that day he shall die and yet a day was 1,000 years. If he did not die then he would live forever and forever. Before the mountains were born is associated with everlasting to everlasting by Moses himself. It clearly looks like Moses is telling is in Psalm 90 that a day is a long age or era. If you think the mountains were created a 6,000 years ago you do not understand what Moses is saying. If you think every lasting or forever is a day that is just plain crazy think Even the letter Mem is used twice and this represents the river of life that flows forever from the throne of God.

The Hebrew letters you’ve provided are וּֽמֵעוֹלָ֥ם. Let’s break them down:

1. ו (Vav): This letter represents the sound “v” or “oo.” It has a numerical value of 6.
2. מ (Mem): This letter represents the sound “m.” Its numerical value is 40.
3. ע (Ayin): The letter “ayin” represents a guttural sound, similar to the “a” in “father.” Its numerical value is 70.
4. ל (Lamed): This letter represents the sound “l.” It has a numerical value of 30.
5. ם (Final Mem): The final form of the letter “mem” is used at the end of words. It also represents the sound “m,” and its numerical value remains 40.

When combined, these letters form the word “וּֽמֵעוֹלָ֥ם”. In this context, it means “forever” or “eternity”. It appears in various biblical texts and carries profound significance in Jewish tradition.
ing.

from everlasting
וּֽמֵעוֹלָ֥ם (ū·mê·‘ō·w·lām)
Conjunctive waw, Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5769: 1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world 1a) ancient time, long time (of past) 1b) (of future) 1b1) for ever, always 1b2) continuous existence, perpetual 1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

to everlasting,
ע֝וֹלָ֗ם (‘ō·w·lām)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5769: 1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world 1a) ancient time, long time (of past) 1b) (of future) 1b1) for ever, always 1b2) continuous existence, perpetual 1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

Platte said:

Why would you want to make things up that contradict the Bible?

Click to expand...

Is that what you are doing? Be careful when you tell on yourself like that. You are always guilty of what you accuse others of.

Diamond7 said:

The 1,000 year reign of Christ is a sabbath. WE have 2,000 years of lawlessness, 2,000 years under the law, 2,000 years of grace and then we have the 1,000 year reign of Christ where the government will rest on His shoulders. They have many many names for the church age or dispensation. I do not see how anyone can argue against dispensationalism, when a day is clearly 1,000 years. Moses and Peter BOTH tell us that one day is 1,000 years. There is no mystery about that. We know 13,000 years ago the earth was covered with ice and there was a major extinction at the time as the earth began to warm and the ice melted. Clearly without Clearly Genesis 1:2 without form and void would apply. Even Jeremiah 4 23 talks about this: "I looked at the earth, and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens, and their light was gone."

Peter tells us don't be ignorant: 2Pet. 3. [8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Moses himself in Psalm 90 talks about "everlasting to everlasting" Moses uses this word in Genesis 3:22 "He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever. ' Adam was given 1,000 years yet we are told in the DAY he shall eat he shall die.

So we have it all in the story of Adam, on that day he shall die and yet a day was 1,000 years. If he did not die then he would live forever and forever. Before the mountains were born is associated with everlasting to everlasting by Moses himself. It clearly looks like Moses is telling is in Psalm 90 that a day is a long age or era. If you think the mountains were created a 6,000 years ago you do not understand what Moses is saying. If you think every lasting or forever is a day that is just plain crazy think Even the letter Mem is used twice and this represents the river of life that flows forever from the throne of God.

The Hebrew letters you’ve provided are וּֽמֵעוֹלָ֥ם. Let’s break them down:

1. ו (Vav): This letter represents the sound “v” or “oo.” It has a numerical value of 6.
2. מ (Mem): This letter represents the sound “m.” Its numerical value is 40.
3. ע (Ayin): The letter “ayin” represents a guttural sound, similar to the “a” in “father.” Its numerical value is 70.
4. ל (Lamed): This letter represents the sound “l.” It has a numerical value of 30.
5. ם (Final Mem): The final form of the letter “mem” is used at the end of words. It also represents the sound “m,” and its numerical value remains 40.

When combined, these letters form the word “וּֽמֵעוֹלָ֥ם”. In this context, it means “forever” or “eternity”. It appears in various biblical texts and carries profound significance in Jewish tradition.
ing.

from everlasting
וּֽמֵעוֹלָ֥ם (ū·mê·‘ō·w·lām)
Conjunctive waw, Preposition-m | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5769: 1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world 1a) ancient time, long time (of past) 1b) (of future) 1b1) for ever, always 1b2) continuous existence, perpetual 1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

to everlasting,
ע֝וֹלָ֗ם (‘ō·w·lām)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 5769: 1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world 1a) ancient time, long time (of past) 1b) (of future) 1b1) for ever, always 1b2) continuous existence, perpetual 1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

Click to expand...

Silly

Platte said:

Silly

Click to expand...

The study of the Hebrew Bible is silly or you think dispensationalism is silly? Because this forum is all about the study of our Bible.

Diamond7 said:

Lets talk about what we agree on, the last 6,000 years. We are told that there were two days or two thousand years of no law.

Click to expand...

I would disagree with this because because Adam & Eve broke the first law that was given and according to the dialog between God and Cain it seems apparent that God expected Cain to know what sin was as well as expecting Cain to know that murder was a sin.

”Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Furthermore Cain’s reaction to God speaking to him doesn’t seem to imply that this was their first conversation because Cain doesn’t appear the least bit surprised to be conversing with God.

Platte said:

Exodus 20:1...And God spake all these words, saying....
Exodus 20:11...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Click to expand...

Exodus is a bronze-age text written by and to ancient Israel. Its not written by God and its not written to us.

Your statement "God is telling us" should therefore be fixed to "In a bronze-age Hebrew text its written that God told to ancient Israel..."

BNR32FAN said:

I would disagree with this because because Adam & Eve broke the first law that was given and according to the dialog between God and Cain it seems apparent that God expected Cain to know what sin was as well as expecting Cain to know that murder was a sin.

”Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Furthermore Cain’s reaction to God speaking to him doesn’t seem to imply that this was their first conversation because Cain doesn’t appear the least bit surprised to be conversing with God.

Click to expand...

So Christ died and then 3000 years later he resurrected? Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3000 years? Should I post more silly examples? Wow Noah was faced with a flood that rained for 40,000 years. Jesus fasted for 40,000 years in the wilderness. I'm kinda liking this 1 day = 1000 years silliness. Your entire post was full of speghetti. Study the Bible to understand what it says - don't study the Bible to make up things and change the context of it.

Platte said:

I read what you wrote several times. Not really sure what you’re getting at with the comparisons but ok.

Since creation days were 24 hour periods I’m not sure how 1000 years relates to creation.

Click to expand...

Yeah it still doesn’t coincide with science even if you have a 6,000 year creation. It’s just an attempt for people to say that it wasn’t a literal 6 day creation but then they have to take it even further and admit that according to science it wasn’t a literal 6,000 year creation either then they just throw 13 billion years at it and call it biblical. Well it’s not biblical, it’s not even close to being biblical because science has the universe at 13 billion years old and the earth at 4.5 billion years and you can’t account for either of these numbers according to the Bible. So then their only explanation is that the Bible doesn’t actually mean what it actually says instead of considering that maybe the earth already appeared to be old the day it was created. But for many of them that doesn’t work either because according to science Adam wasn’t created from dust in one day, and not only that he wasn’t created in the beginning according to science, he was created at the very very end of the time line by apes. Death was already in the world long before Adam therefore the Bible must be wrong about that to. And to top it off none of this has actually been proven by science, they just have evidence. Nothing has actually been observed to prove any of these theories. Scientists can’t prove how much isotopic decay existed in materials 6,000 years ago, they can’t prove we came from apes, they can’t prove that life derived from chemicals and if people would just watch some Kent Hovind debates on YouTube they could learn all this from the scientists themselves who are trying to defend the scientific theories. In Kent’s debate with Dr Hartman Hartman specifically said that he openly admits that there is no place anywhere on earth that you can actually go to, to observe the geological column because it’s a theory. Dr Rainbow openly admitted that we’ve never observed macro evolution or life deriving from chemicals and so did several others in Kent’s debates. These theories are being taught as facts when according to the experts in these specific fields have never actually been observed. These theories are based on the interpretation of evidence. Most people just don’t care, they’re not interested in actually taking the time to investigate it, it’s much easier for them to say that the Bible doesn’t mean what it actually says.