After further discussion, I will change this point to you will pay $10K-$20K or more for an EV equivalent. Granted, that may or may not be twice as much, but it's still substantial.
After cost, range anxiety is the number one reason people are not switching to EVs. You may not think it's a big deal, but it is. And the industry not only needs to figure out the range issue, but also how to assuage people's fears of battery degradation. What happens when your already limited range dwindles even further as your battery's capacity lessens? These are all very real concerns.
But they are fears that are exaggerated by EV opponents. Yes, we need more charging stations for travelers to really make range anxiety go away. As for the battery, it comes with an 8-year, 100,000 mile warranty at a minimum; for Kia that is 10-years and some states require even longer warranties -- so excessive degradation gets a free replacement battery (or at least the failing modules replaced). Otherwise, expect the battery to degrade at 1-2% per year on a modern EV -- and there are ways to lower degradation.
Here is a great website that shows the cost vs. range of EVs.
View attachment 344622
Source:
DTE Energy EV Buyers Guide
There is no doubt that longer range is correlated with higher cost.
Right. Because range anxiety is real.
That would be YOUR EV6 Wind.
No, just a more comparable car to your K5 -- though technically, features wise, you care is actually closer to the Light, but since the Light isn't available in AWD I kicked it up to the Wind.
You're comparing an AWD to a RWD. Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison. Which brings up another compromise. If you want AWD in an EV, you're going to sacrifice range.
No, I'm not. I stated range on the AWD is 274 miles, and then added you could slightly increase range to 310 with an AWD -- though, honestly, there are ways to get that better range with an AWD (such as running in Eco mode which doesn't use the front motor).
Perhaps, but road trips are a big reason why people have cars. You can't just pretend like the issues with road trips aren't applicable.
Are they really? My experience is that most people have cars to get to and from work and to do various errands (shopping, running kids around, etc). For most people, the ability to road trip is a bonus. If they buy their car only for road trips (short of road tripping weekly) they are likely better off financially just renting a car for their road trips.
And you forget that the "cheaper" cost of ownership is largely offset by the much higher initial price tag.
Yes, but it does tend to even out the price over time.
All of this talk about "saving time" because you don't have to make a 5-minute stop at the gas station is amusing to me.
Because it's not nearly as drastic. I lose range on my K5 because I opt to remote start it and let it run in the winter so it's warm for me. But not much. I go from 30+ MPG to 27+ MPG.
You do realize that a 30 to 27 mpg drop is a 10% drop.
Batteries charge slower in cold conditions.
No, batteries charge slower
when they are cold. This is why car makers set up batteries to pre-condition when you are headed to a charging stop, so that even in cold weather the battery will charge up at full speed.
A
very small amount of time and effort.
EVBox says that it will take
38 hours to fully charge an EV6 using a 2.3 kW plug.
Ah. So it DOES take 40+ hours to charge an EV on a 110v outlet, but you don't think it's an issue.
About as much of an issue as the fact that it costs you $50 to fully fill your tank. Again, if you only have a 110v charger then you are probably plugging it in daily -- which for most people fills it back up to full. This isn't like a gas car where you fill it up once a week; instead you come home, you plug your car in, and unplug it in the morning (a bit like closing the garage door). So you don't worry, on a daily basis, of having an empty "tank" on an EV; even if you forget to plug it in you should have more than enough range for your day -- and over the next couple of nights (or the weekend) you'll get it back to full.
What is more, this is good for the battery (less degradation) to do lots of smaller charging sessions, rather than completely depleting the battery and then recharging to full.
That's a whole lot of assumptions favorable to your point.
No, that is real life. It is literally my daughter's first hand experience. And it holds true for most Americans -- since most Americans drive less than 40 miles a day (roughly the amount of range you can add in 10 hours on a 110v charger). You seem to have this fake idea that you have to empty the battery before you can safely charge it and that is not only false it is bad for the battery. In fact, the "ABC" of owning an EV is "Always Be Charging."
Fair enough. Just hope that you don't have to go any further than 150 miles. Otherwise you might have to wait a day or two.
Why? If I (or an EV owner) has to go to the edge of our range, then you can just take it to a public charger to top it off. There is likely a Level 2 or 50 kW fast charger (with cheaper pricing than a 350 kW charger) where you can plug it in while you are doing what you traveled that distance to do. Around me, I know of several Level 2 chargers that charge 10 cents per kW (not much different than home rates) and 50kW fast chargers that are around 20 cents per kW.
Some are. Some are WAY more than twice as expensive.
Not really, not when comparing the equivalent car. I'll admit, it can be hard to compare equivalent vehicles, EVs often are a specific model with no ICE version. At the same time, we have the Ford F-150 for $37K and the Ford F-150 Lightning for $47K; the Volvo XC40 at 41K and the XC40 Recharge at 52K; the XC60 at $47K, the XC 60 Recharge at $58K; there are exceptions but for the same model it is typically around $10K. And, if it qualifies (like the Lightning), after taking off the $7500 federal credit the price between the two is very close; particularly since the base EV typically has more features than a base ICE vehicle.
And, again, the current actual sales prices are much closer. For example, you mention Kia's $7500 credit is only until the end of the month, but from what I've seen they've had that credit for the last several months, simply renewing it at the start of each month. I suspect we'll see it again at the beginning of April.
Good for her.
I don't really care if you or your daughter is happy with your EV. Clearly your use-cases are different than mine.
My guess I that if people have use-cases like you are describing, they will be happy. If they have use-cases like I am describing, the will not.
And that's fine. I don't think I've criticized you for buying a K5.
I disagree. You've spent multiple very long posts explaining why my use-cases would be fine for an EV. They would not.
From what you have described, it sounds like it would be even better for you; except for the fact you'd have to spend time charging on the road (which is your deal breaker). At the same time, I would think you'd like going out every morning to a full charge, even after warming the car up, to not have to worry (assuming, which may be wrong, that your car is garaged) about carbon monoxide fumes. It sounds as if you would have no issues with a Level 1 charger (since you talk about not driving much) most of the time.
I think there are a lot more people than you realize driving more than 40 miles/day.
Except that over
90% of "trips" (amount driven one way to a destination) is 30 miles or less, in the US. Now I could find sources that show that the daily average is about 40 miles -- you'd likely argue people drive less on weekends that lowers the average, I'd point out that you talk about the trips people take, which drastically increase the daily average (a day trip might add 10x the mileage that a person tends to go daily).
I think most people are open to changing habits IF they realize a benefit.
I have no idea how long it will take. But as I've said all along, when EVs meet all of the same use-cases as an ICE vehicle at a comparable price, that is when we will see mass adoption and not before.
And I can't agree with this. The fact is, there are a large number of people that have two vehicles and one is largely for local use (the second is the one used for road trips); an EV in most of those cases (likely 99%) would make a better local car. An EV does not have to meet "all of the same use-cases," it just has to match the use cases of the person who is buying the car.
