Just to bring the Israel/Palestinian war into perspective.

hislegacy said:

Who is the ruling party in Palestine right now - today - - who does the vast majority of the population of Gaza support?

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How can you tell? Do you have election results? At least I can tell the majority of Russians won't vote against Putin... Can Hamas even say that for themselves?

hislegacy said:

It's called war.

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And we (U.S.) have the power to stop it.

Landon Caeli said:

I mean seriously @rambot this conflict has existed for nearly 100 years now. After Hamas is gone, it's going to continue on unless hard lessons are taught at some point.

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To include starving a civilian population?

hislegacy said:

Hamas has been in control from 2006 until 2017 when the Palestinian Authority took the PM's position, but to this day only control 40% of Gaza - the other 60% is Hamas.

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And how many elections has Hamas won since 2006?

hislegacy said:

Show me where in the Israeli Constitution or Leadership positions it call s for murdering the Palestinians - equivalent to what I linked to from the Palestinian leadership that I have already shown and we can talk...

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It is a major part of Hamas strategy to see many civilians killed so that others will claim Israelis "murdered" Palestinians. This is nothing new. Here's an excerpt from an article from 2014 that is spot on:

Some of these observers have met and interviewed Hamas leaders, some have not.
The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg, who has interviewed Hamas members, wrote that the group "is trying to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible" because "dead Palestinians represent a crucial propaganda victory for the nihilists of Hamas." While that is not exactly akin to using unwilling human shields, if true, the effect would be in many ways similar.

Landon Caeli said:

I mean seriously @rambot this conflict has existed for nearly 100 years now. After Hamas is gone, it's going to continue on unless hard lessons are taught at some point.

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What hard lessons reduced IRA terrorism ?
What hard lessons stopped Catholics and Protestants murdering each other at every opportunity?

why not 11x, 10 x is pretty intense and 11x is one higher than 10x

One God and Father of All said:

The idea behind war is to win.

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And as we all know, the Christian is supposed to be an advocate for war. It's why the Lord in His Sermon on the Mount famously said things like "Blessed are the warmakers, for their victory is assured" and "You have heard it said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I tell you that if someone strikes you on the one cheek, turn, and then kill them and their entire family and neighborhood." Or perhaps this famous statement, "I tell you to love only people that are like you, despise your enemies, extort the weak, and carpet bomb the unbelievers." And who can forget that time when Jesus, being tempted in the wilderness, was tempted by the devil, "Bow down and worship me and I will give you the kingdoms of the earth" And Jesus said, "Bet, sounds like a good deal."

Oh wait, that wasn't Christ. That is antichrist.

-CryptoLutheran

hislegacy said:

It's called war.

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Yes, and there’s a such thing as “war crimes”.

ViaCrucis said:

And as we all know, the Christian is supposed to be an advocate for war. It's why the Lord in His Sermon on the Mount famously said things like "Blessed are the warmakers, for their victory is assured" and "You have heard it said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I tell you that if someone strikes you on the one cheek, turn, and then kill them and their entire family and neighborhood." Or perhaps this famous statement, "I tell you to love only people that are like you, despise your enemies, extort the weak, and carpet bomb the unbelievers." And who can forget that time when Jesus, being tempted in the wilderness, was tempted by the devil, "Bow down and worship me and I will give you the kingdoms of the earth" And Jesus said, "Bet, sounds like a good deal."

Oh wait, that wasn't Christ. That is antichrist.

-CryptoLutheran

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What about Mohammed? And his worshippers?

...Basically what you're saying is that Muslims can kill Christians and Jews, rape our wives and children, and all we can do about it is turn the other cheek so they can do it again next time they feel like it. Nope, not happening. We're going to *solve* this problem using hard methods.

JosephZ said:

Yes, and there’s a such thing as “war crimes”.

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Tell that to the Palestinian warmongers, who kidnapped and raped infants and elderly last October.

Hans Blaster said:

What a bloodthirsty and vengeful view.

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Thank you.

Landon Caeli said:

What about Mohammed? And his worshippers?

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Ignoring the erroneous statement that Muslims worship Muhammad (they don't); I'm not a Muslim. I'm a Christian, and my concern is following Jesus Christ, and being true to what He taught, and abiding in what He has given in and for His Church.

Landon Caeli said:

...Basically what you're saying is that Muslims can kill Christians and Jews, rape our wives and children, and all we can do about it is turn the other cheek so they can do it again next time they feel like it. Nope, not happening. We're going to *solve* this problem using hard methods.

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Question: Why are you a Christian? Do you care what Jesus said? Do you care about Christianity? I mean the religion of Christianity, the set of beliefs and practices that constitute this thing we call "Christianity" which talks about repentance and forgiveness, which talks about the God who loves us and desires us to be reconciled to Him and to others, which practices love, gentleness, self-control, and crucifying the harmful lusts and appetites of our fallen flesh through repentance. Does any of that actually matter?

Does Jesus matter to you? When, or if, you call Jesus Lord--what does that mean to you, what does that cost you? Would you willingly suffer and die for Him? Do you believe He is real--really alive, that He actually rose from the dead, ascended into the heavens, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again? If you really do believe that, then shouldn't He matter? And shouldn't you care about conforming your life to Him? Shouldn't you at least want this?

Would you bleed for Christ? Or even make yourself uncomfortable for Him? Perhaps you find that it is too hard, but do you not at least have something within you that would pray, "Grant me strength to suffer"?

Because this "let's hurt those people over there so they can't be a danger to me" attitude isn't Christian. And if we are so willing to denounce the name of Jesus Christ the moment Jesus makes us uncomfortable, or Jesus becomes inconvenient, then what does that say about us?

What good is Christianity without Jesus Christ? What is even the point in being or calling myself a Christian unless Jesus is what actually matters.

And if Jesus does actually matter, then why are so many Christian so willing to abandon Him at the drop of a hat, the moment it means it might actually cost you something?

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Ignoring the erroneous statement that Muslims worship Muhammad (they don't); I'm not a Muslim. I'm a Christian, and my concern is following Jesus Christ, and being true to what He taught, and abiding in what He has given in and for His Church.



Question: Why are you a Christian? Do you care what Jesus said? Do you care about Christianity? I mean the religion of Christianity, the set of beliefs and practices that constitute this thing we call "Christianity" which talks about repentance and forgiveness, which talks about the God who loves us and desires us to be reconciled to Him and to others, which practices love, gentleness, self-control, and crucifying the harmful lusts and appetites of our fallen flesh through repentance. Does any of that actually matter?

Does Jesus matter to you? When, or if, you call Jesus Lord--what does that mean to you, what does that cost you? Would you willingly suffer and die for Him? Do you believe He is real--really alive, that He actually rose from the dead, ascended into the heavens, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and will come again? If you really do believe that, then shouldn't He matter? And shouldn't you care about conforming your life to Him? Shouldn't you at least want this?

Would you bleed for Christ? Or even make yourself uncomfortable for Him? Perhaps you find that it is too hard, but do you not at least have something within you that would pray, "Grant me strength to suffer"?

Because this "let's hurt those people over there so they can't be a danger to me" attitude isn't Christian. And if we are so willing to denounce the name of Jesus Christ the moment Jesus makes us uncomfortable, or Jesus becomes inconvenient, then what does that say about us?

What good is Christianity without Jesus Christ? What is even the point in being or calling myself a Christian unless Jesus is what actually matters.

And if Jesus does actually matter, then why are so many Christian so willing to abandon Him at the drop of a hat, the moment it means it might actually cost you something?

-CryptoLutheran

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You say: this "let's hurt those people over there so they can't be a danger to me" attitude isn't Christian.

...Yet my Church teaches a Just War doctrine, where nations can go to war and even kill.

Are you suggesting that the Catholic Church isn't Christian? I mean, that's what you just said in the red above.

Look, if a nation has been attacked by a neighboring nation for 100 years, it's reached a point where one of the two needs to be subjugated. And I believe this to be a very rare need, but in this case, entirely necessary.

It needs to end with lessons taught, and minds changed.

Landon Caeli said:

It needs to end with lessons taught, and minds changed.

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How many minds do you think we changed after 20 years in Afghanistan?

hislegacy said:

About two more than the last 76 years of trying to negotiate peace with a group of people openly calling for the murder of every Man, woman and child of the Jewish race.

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Not very many, then. Do you think they just haven’t killed enough Palestinians? Maybe a few thousand more will start to turn minds and hearts towards Israel?

hislegacy said:

I heard that he actually wants them to be hosts and hostesses on Disney cruises.

Rumors are such fun!

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Any truth to the rumor that Israel plans to takeover the gas-field just off the coast of Gaza?