Why did Jesus instruct a healed man to break the Sabbath?

myst33 said:

I did something better, I explained your logical errors to you. Which would be your next requirement, anyway. Better focus on not repeating them than on this lazy game.

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If that is so, and I say you explained nothing, why did you make the false accusation?

myst33 said:

My goodness, Bob, focus. Why did Jesus gave the instruction to the man to take his mat and walk through the city with it, when it was not allowed to do on Sabbath?

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I specifically answered your question in great detail and posed several questions to you in the search of Biblical Truth (The Truth that counts, in my view) surrounding your OP. And you completely ignored the very answer to the question "you asked" and also refused to engage in the simplest of decency between two people, which is to respond to answers given to questions you yourself asked and to show the same courtesy of answering questions posed to you in return. You know, the whole "do unto others" thing.

Wouldn't it be great, and edifying, if through honest unbiased review and discussion of God's Inspired Holy scriptures, we could all "SEEK" and then believe God's Truth, even if, or perhaps "especially" if it means a darkness (deception) is exposed within ourselves??

Shouldn't that be the "focus" of men who call Jesus Lord, Lord?

myst33 said:

You are also focusing just on "was it against the Mosaic Law"

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So is Christ in Mark 7:7-13 - have you read it?

Note the title of this thread - if you would like second reason for such a focus on this particular thread.

myst33 said:

instead of on the question "why did Jesus gave this instruction".

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Already answered it - Jesus did NOT give any instruction at all against Law.

And in Matt 5 He condemns the idea that people would accuse Him of such a thing.

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least" Matt 5

myst33 said:

My goodness, Bob, focus.

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Your question was a bit flawed as Jesus's Matt 5 statement points out.

It was like "when did you stop beating your dog" asked to someone who never beat their dog. Then when it is pointed out that they never did that you respond "you need to focus". Were we simply not supposed to notice.

myst33 said:

Why did Jesus gave the instruction to the man to take his mat and walk

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Because the man was out in the open and now that he was healed -- needed to go home and be at rest.
And of course - it was no sin to do that even on the Sabbath - carrying one's "mat" and heading home.

myst33 said:

through the city with it,

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Why not?
No actual scripture says "you can carry your blanket home on Sabbath as long as you don't walk through town".

myst33 said:

when it was not allowed to do on Sabbath?

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Not allowed by?

It was already pointed out in the posts you ignore that no such command was given in the Bible
#42 #57

In Acts 10:28 Peter claims it was "against the Law" for a Jew to keep company with a gentile

28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation.

- when in fact that law was not in scripture but rather in the "traditions" of Jews at that time. One cannot blame God for laws that others make up.

Your response seems to indicate that you want this point repeated .

myst33 said:

You did not answer why Jesus gave the specific instruction to pick up the mat and carry it through the city. Do not focus on if it was against your interpretation of the Law or not, do not worry, you said it clearly that in your opinion, the Mosaic Law was not broken.

By their authorities in their society. As you are not allowed to drive on the red light. For Jews, the carrying was breaking the Sabbath rest.

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So, why do 'you' think Jesus gave the specific instruction to pick up the mat and carry it through the city?
Weve already answered you ten times.

myst33 said:

I do not know. Provoking the Jews is a possibility, but does not seem to match the character of Jesus.


I have seen only one real answer, somewhere in the beginning of the thread. That the man was emotionally attached to the mat, being for so long on it. Or something like that.

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Or maybe it's just Godliness and common decency not to leave your belongings laying around for someone else to clean up.

myst33 said:

I saw no other valid answer in other posts, but I did not read them all, because participants focused on if it was a real Sabbath breaking or not. Which was not my question. But the title of the thread simply attracted mainly the ones who are for Sabbath or the Law keeping.

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I responded because you are accusing Jesus of Breaking God's Commandment, which is a sin. Here, let's look at your own words.

"Why did Jesus instruct a healed man to break the Sabbath"?

The Truth, which several have tried to show you, not with their own opinions, but by posting what is Actually written in Scriptures, is that the Jesus "of the Bible" didn't instruct the healed man to break God's Sabbath. In fact, if you were to actually read what Jesus said, you wouldn't have Judged Him in this manner, at least I would think a man would.

Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: "sin no more", lest a worse thing come unto thee.

There are several who gave you "Valid" answers as to why Jesus instructed this man to gather his stuff and walk, but not many who gave you an answer which would justify your accusation against Jesus, of breaking God's Commandments.

Why not just accept the Biblical Fact that Jesus instructed NO ONE to break even the least of God's Commandments.

As I am convinced, HE is not a Hypocrite as your OP implies.

Matt. 5: 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Jesus I believe in, the Jesus "of the Bible", is the Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven, in my understanding. The Pharisees accused Him of Breaking the Sabbath, same as you are.

In God's Love, I would have you reconsider your religious philosophy, as Jesus Himself warns.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Can we not then by united in agreement that the Jesus "of the Bible" never instructed a man to break "any" of God's Commandments?

To gather up the bed and walk was a matter of living proof of the faith, the walk, and the healing. It was not to be misleading regarding the burden of carrying your bed but the gift of healing. Focus is what makes the difference. The Pharisee were not seeing God in this. They were dwelling on the things they created and wanted done, not what God was doing. Walking with the bed as living proof of faith and the healing is better that the burdens of restrictions the Pharisees place on the Sabbath.

If picking up a mat and walking is breaking the Sabbath, how does one put clothes on, on the Sabbath?

According to the law; Exodus 16:23-30, and if we are being so very strict, then no one should be outside at all on the Sabbath.
Stay at home and eat leftovers is what Exodus 16:23-30 describes.

I think the command is about labor, do no labor on the seventh day.
If it is not laborious to carry the mat, the Sabbath is not broken.

Jesus tells the man, sin no more lest a worse thing come unto thee. John 5:14
That strongly leads towards the conclusion that Jesus did not consider carrying the bed to be a sin against the Sabbath law.
Jesus was showing the Jews that their strictness was too much, the heart of the matter is sincere love for people.

contratodo said:

If picking up a mat and walking is breaking the Sabbath, how does one put clothes on, on the Sabbath?

According to the law; Exodus 16:23-30, and if we are being so very strict, then no one should be outside at all on the Sabbath.
Stay at home and eat leftovers is what Exodus 16:23-30 describes.

I think the command is about labor, do no labor on the seventh day.
If it is not laborious to carry the mat, the Sabbath is not broken.

Jesus tells the man, sin no more lest a worse thing come unto thee. John 5:14
That strongly leads towards the conclusion that Jesus did not consider carrying the bed to be a sin against the Sabbath law.
Jesus was showing the Jews that their strictness was too much, the heart of the matter is sincere love for people.

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The Sabbath burden God never put upon man, but are man made. These burdens take away the blessing of the Sabbath rest.
Luke 11:46
Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

honey badger said:

Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Arise, and take up your mat, and walk'?


to Jesus there was no differeance between them ....

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Hello,

Jesus did not say. He commanded.

Peace and Blessings

myst33 said:

I see that many of you simply want to discuss if it was really breaking the sabbath or not.

However, my question is why did Jesus said to the man to do what was not allowed in their society (and what was not necessary for anything related to the healing).

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Jesus knew the man's history. But asked him anyway.
Jesus knew the man's state and the cause of it. But asked him anyway.
Jesus commanded he get up and take his couch with him.

Likely because it was a permanent fixture and he should not walk away and leave his couch behind, in the way, and abandoned.

Because he would not only have the strength to get up. He would have the strength to carry his own couch away on his own. Fully fit. Fully able. Fully Healed and ready to Go. His misery in Jewish failure to obey God and keep all the Jewish hypocritical rules was the source of his illness. And Jesus was the 100%, full, start to finish, the source of his healing and strength to obey the Commands Jesus gave him.

Because Jesus typically gave a command followed by a command that could only be done after the first was acknowledged. And they often ignored the latter command.

To ask any more is to know the ways of God, which we are not privy to.

Peace and Blessings

myst33 said:

Carrying a mat is work. Its basically moving his furniture and that was not allowed, as Jews reminded to the man.

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Because Jesus is greater than the Law. Jesus' Commands are Perfect. The Law never was. Because Jesus is God and Commands the Sabbath. Not the Jews commanding Jesus with the Sabbath and God's laws that they perverted and disobeyed.

Peace and Blessings

SabbathBlessings said:

A mat is not a piece of furniture nor is it a mattress. You keep siding with the Pharisees over the Words of Jesus- Jesus said it wasn't a sin therefore it was not work.

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It is a mattress. Maybe even a couch. Not some 5lb light woven mat.

Peace and Blessings

honey badger said:

like debating which is the worse crime ... to save ones ox from a pit or carry ones bed home ....

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It is a good question. I brings into light the law of man vs the law of God vs God's commands.

Peace and Blessings

Gary K said:

Interesting that you take your beliefs from those who murdered Jesus. I find that extremely odd, as it is a devil inspired belief because it is the devil who is a murderer.

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It is a devil-inspired statement that the Jews murdered Jesus. They did not! Jews were not allowed capital punishment. It was the Gentiles/Rome that killed the Christ, or more, the World.

Peace and Blessings

TPop said:

It is a mattress. Maybe even a couch. Not some 5lb light woven mat.

Peace and Blessings

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You have a Text for that?

TPop said:

It is a devil-inspired statement that the Jews murdered Jesus. They did not! Jews were not allowed capital punishment. It was the Gentiles/Rome that killed the Christ, or more, the World.

Peace and Blessings

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Really? They didn't arrest Jesus, take Him to Pilate and bully him into crucifying Jesus? Justice says those who initiate an event are just as guilty as those who do the actual act.

Matthew 20: 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Matthew 22: 3 ¶ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

So if it was the Romans who killed Jesus why did Judas say he sinned in betraying innocent blood to the priests and leaders?

SabbathBlessings said:

You have a Text for that?

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YLT. Youngs Literal Translation.

Try downloading E-Sword and then download text and commentaries and bibles. YLT is a very literal translation. Hard to read at times. Not great for study. But good for words.

Peace and Blessings