Fitness/Diet Accountability Thread

FireDragon76 said:

I have been tracking my activity levels. On days off, my non-exercise activity increases, whereas on days I do alot of cardio, my non-exercise activity appears to decrease. It was surprising to see, actually, but it's definitely there. The difference is several thousands steps.

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That's a known phenomenon.

RDKirk said:

That's a known phenomenon.

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I'm leaning towards the metabolic damage hypothesis.

I don't really suffer from binge eating problems (at least, if I binge, I binge on foods most people don't associate with junk food), so alot of conventional weight loss just doesn't do much for me.

My problem is due to the fact, that in my 30's, I ate a "standard American diet" for much of the time (fried food, gravy, lunch meat, potato chips, etc., with some healthy foods interspersed). I also followed the Orthodox fasting rule (no meat, dairy, or eggs on Wednesdays and Fridays, the 40 days of Lent and Advent, or the Fast of the Apostles and Dormition, no eating on Sundays before the Divine Liturgy... and one meal a day during Holy Week and no food at all on Holy Friday). It was alot of extremes, and did nothing good for my body composition or gastrointestinal health, even if I never became seriously overweight, I was rendered decidedly skinny fat. That kind of visceral body fat you acquire eating that way for the better part of a decade just doesn't melt off when you adopt a healthier dietary pattern.

Its interesting to note Luther also did alot of insane fasting as a young monk, and then blew up like a balloon after the Refromation (he died from heart disease in his 60's, BTW, after suffering from years of gastrointestinal problems, similar to what I also experienced). I don't think it's a coincidence. Lots of fasting can do things to your body that seem to make it vulnerable to being stingy with energy.

FireDragon76 said:

Another issue I am having is that extended cardio can make my feet sore.

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I've been that situation before. Solution is stationary bike or cycling. I NEVER got my feet sore in cycling, not even a 7hr bicycle ride, not even when I'm new to it. If you don't have this on the gym, there are many cheap models nowadays. Even the simple friction resistance will work. No need for elaborate dashboard on you exercise machine, your personal heart rate monitor is more than sufficient.

But you still need to do some jogging if you decide to stationary bike sessions. Although you can cut jogging time down to 15 minutes each day. Jogging or running remains important for whole body bone and muscle strength especially the ones essential for mobility.

Because cycling won't give you strong bones and may even cause muscles to produce less sustained force or get weaker. Strong bones still comes from jogging or running and also with strength training.

This is also an interesting video, it's referencing a study investigating how caloric restriction influences metabolic changes in the brain. In this study, it actually changed the brains of mice fed diets higher in fat, but calorie restricted. Their metabolisms were essentially damaged by caloric restriction. But the group eating a low-fat diet had less damage. I think this is interesting because I've always assumed body set point was due to body composition, not changes in the brain.

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I'm on high carb diet but not sure of the fat content. Most of the time, meat is part of my meals but in small quantities only. The largest portion of my meals are still grains (rice, oats, and wheat). In some meals, I eat beans or green, leafy vegetables instead of meat.

And then I consume three spoonful's of powdered full fat milk everyday and that's pretty much the food I eat. No cookies, no ice cream, no snack bars, no pastries, no junk/processed food.

Monday to Friday, no calorie deficit. Huge calorie deficit on weekends because I burn up to 8,000 Calories over the weekend from the cardio workouts and it's just physically impossible for me to gobble up 8,000 calories of food in just two days to fill the deficit. I found to this to be the easiest way to enforce a calorie deficit without feeling hungry all the time and without resorting to "specialist"/restrictive diets.

timewerx said:

I've been that situation before. Solution is stationary bike or cycling. I NEVER got my feet sore in cycling, not even a 7hr bicycle ride, not even when I'm new to it. If you don't have this on the gym, there are many cheap models nowadays. Even the simple friction resistance will work. No need for elaborate dashboard on you exercise machine, your personal heart rate monitor is more than sufficient.

But you still need to do some jogging if you decide to stationary bike sessions. Although you can cut jogging time down to 15 minutes each day. Jogging or running remains important for whole body bone and muscle strength especially the ones essential for mobility.

Because cycling won't give you strong bones and may even cause muscles to produce less sustained force or get weaker. Strong bones still comes from jogging or running and also with strength training.



I'm on high carb diet but not sure of the fat content. Most of the time, meat is part of my meals but in small quantities only. The largest portion of my meals are still grains (rice, oats, and wheat). In some meals, I eat beans or green, leafy vegetables instead of meat.

And then I consume three spoonful's of powdered full fat milk everyday and that's pretty much the food I eat. No cookies, no ice cream, no snack bars, no pastries, no junk/processed food.

Monday to Friday, no calorie deficit. Huge calorie deficit on weekends because I burn up to 8,000 Calories over the weekend from the cardio workouts and it's just physically impossible for me to gobble up 8,000 calories of food in just two days to fill the deficit. I found to this to be the easiest way to enforce a calorie deficit without feeling hungry all the time and without resorting to "specialist"/restrictive diets.

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Your diet is probably relatively low fat, about 20-25 percent calories from fat.

Ketones were higher today, in fact they were higher throughout the day, which might be a good sign. I have lowered my fat to less than 15 percent of calories and increased caloric intake by a few hundred calories. Hopefully I don't gain any weight. I'm trying to keep fat consistently low, and increase my intake of carbs.

Ketones continue to be higher, at 1.5mmol/DL . My body fat percentage is still holding at 21.8 percent. I do think the combination of AMPK boosting herbs and the vinegar is helping raise metabolism, but I haven't seen significant results yet in terms of noticeable fat loss. It could take a while, though.

Here's an interesting video that has me thinking about some things, particularly lack of good quality sleep. I only manage 6 1/2 hours most nights. I haven't slept good very often in years. I also haven't found a good alarm clock that I actually like using, maybe there is a connection.




Controlling stress is something to pay more attention to. The only time I managed to lose weight in the past 4 years, I was practicing meditation consistently for about an hour total every day. Sometimes I've even noticed my weight dropping by a few pounds without even trying. Unfortunately for me, doing any kind of social activity seems to potentially increase stress- going to church, visiting my parents, etc.

I'm going to try cutting calories by only 200 per day and see how I do, and try the refeeding strategy once in a while. I also think I'm leaning too much into cardio and I'm going to focus more on stress reduction and trying to get better sleep. I might also try setting an alarm on my watch to get up and move more often.

FireDragon76 said:

Here's an interesting video that has me thinking about some things, particularly lack of good quality sleep. I only manage 6 1/2 hours most nights. I haven't slept good very often in years. I also haven't found a good alarm clock that I actually like using, maybe there is a connection.

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Maybe try watches with vibration alarm. However, its best to simply go to sleep so early that you will not need any alarm in the morning to wake up. This is the most healthy way and without the morning stress.

Regarding good sleep, several things can be done - total darkness in the room, not thinking about life before sleep, no planning (leave it to morning), do not be in light before sleeping, do not eat before sleeping etc.

myst33 said:

Maybe try watches with vibration alarm. However, its best to simply go to sleep so early that you will not need any alarm in the morning to wake up. This is the most healthy way and without the morning stress.

Regarding good sleep, several things can be done - total darkness in the room, not thinking about life before sleep, no planning (leave it to morning), do not be in light before sleeping, do not eat before sleeping etc.

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Although my life is often extremely stressful, I try to make eating and sleeping totally stress-free.

Before meals and sleep, I put my mind in absolute agreement that all my problems absolutely don't matter. That I can die tomorrow, lose everything, and it won't matter. Simply unplugging myself from reality.

Wearing a sleep eye mask has definitely helped me. It especially helps for the mid-day naps I take. I sleep so much deeper during those naps with the mask that a couple of times I've awoken from a nap thinking that it was morning for a few moments.

RDKirk said:

Wearing a sleep eye mask has definitely helped me. It especially helps for the mid-day naps I take. I sleep so much deeper during those naps with the mask that a couple of times I've awoken from a nap thinking that it was morning for a few moments.

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I recently tried wearing earplugs at night. I live in an apartment and I wonder sometimes if traffic isn't waking me up. Genetically, according to 23andMe, I'm more likely to be a light sleeper.

I took a day off yesterday. Not even walking on a treadmill. I still got in about 5,000 steps. I watched some videos on various resistance training concepts and I think that will give me some tips on getting better workouts. My smart watch says my stress level was alot lower.

Today I spent about 45 minutes working out hard with resistance bands and some calisthenics, doing about 4-5 sets each, trying to get close to failure. I'll probably be a bit sore tomorrow. I'm impressed with the amount of pump you can get from what are essentially big rubber bands.

Body fat seems to have gone up a bit perhaps. It could just be a measuring error. I am continuing to eat around 1800 calories. I found alot of discussions on Youtube about diet plateaus, and how to deal with them. There's widespread agreement maintanence calories is the best way to go, for a couple days to several months. This allows hormone levels and the part of the brain that regulates metabolism to readjust. I'm going to try slowly increasing calories. I'll also be decreasing the amount of cardio- I think it's useful for conditioning but adding in alot of cardio doesn't seem to do anything good for body composition if you are prone to being skinny fat and already eating a good diet.

I found a good Youtube fitness channel, Discipline Dave. I've watched several of Dave's videos and I like his approach. I appreciate the low key, unpretentious presentation (he's not focused on an unrealistic physique), and the focus on safety.

FireDragon76 said:

I'll also be decreasing the amount of cardio- I think it's useful for conditioning but adding in alot of cardio doesn't seem to do anything good for body composition if you are prone to being skinny fat and already eating a good diet.

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I used to be skinny fat.

High intensity workout is known to improve body composition by making the body release greater quantities of natural "Growth Hormones" (GH). GH helps in the breakdown of fat and aid in muscle growth (hypertrophy).

But in order for a workout to be called high intensity, your heart rate should be at 90 to 100% of your max heart rate (MHR) even for just few minutes per session (multiple sessions with short rests in between). Your MHR is 220 minus your age, more or less.

Although you shouldn't dive straight into MHR training it if you never worked out at 90 to 100% MHR. It must be done progressively in order to be safe and avoid issues cause by overworked heart.

Workouts that can get to you MHR is running fast uphill (at an incline) for example. This can also help build some of your biggest muscles in the body that are found in your legs and hips. If you are looking to quickly build lean mass to quickly raise metabolism, the legs and hips should be your focus.

The effect of GH is even more pronounced if you combine high intensity workouts with intermittent fasting and doing all these during the fasting window because intermittent fasting can also improve levels of GH in the body.

Post workout is where you can use your glucose supplements to a great effect to really aid in muscle recovery and growth and with "protein-complete" foods or variety of food that can give you all the essential amino acids. It isn't enough that you're meeting daily protein requirement, you must also get all the essential amino acids (the different kinds of proteins) from your meals.

I still do long cardio in the weekend (only once a week) to force myself into a huge calorie deficit for just one day of the week and then non-deficit calorie intake the rest of week (same calories eaten for the same calories burned each day except for Saturday). It seems to prevent the body from adapting to "horde" fat. At least this is how I maintain low body fat % and good composition these days.

timewerx said:

I used to be skinny fat.

High intensity workout is known to improve body composition by making the body release greater quantities of natural "Growth Hormones" (GH). GH helps in the breakdown of fat and aid in muscle growth (hypertrophy).

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That's theoretical and mechanistic. The actual growth hormone increases from any kind of intervention like that are usually modest. Sitting in a sauna several times a day can also cause significant increases in growth hormone, however, when you look at it a big picture, it's not really worth your time. Most people would be better off focusing on reducing stress, eating a healthier diet and getting more sleep to increase growth hormone.

High intensity workouts like that also require alot of recovery. From personal experience, I don't think it's worth it in my case. Cardio in general doesn't cause muscle growth as effectively as exercises like squats. That's why I try to focus on gradually increasingly my level of low intensity cardio and tracking the number of steps I take in a day.

FireDragon76 said:

That's theoretical and mechanistic. The actual growth hormone increases from any kind of intervention like that are usually modest. Sitting in a sauna several times a day can also cause significant increases in growth hormone, however, when you look at it a big picture, it's not really worth your time. Most people would be better off focusing on reducing stress, eating a healthier diet and getting more sleep to increase growth hormone.

High intensity workouts like that also require alot of recovery. From personal experience, I don't think it's worth it in my case. Cardio in general doesn't cause muscle growth as effectively as exercises like squats. That's why I try to focus on gradually increasingly my level of low intensity cardio and tracking the number of steps I take in a day.

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The increase in growth hormone (GH) secretion can be as much as three-fold increase in just 1 day of fasting and up to 10-fold increase in 5 days.

For practicality sake, 12-24 hr intermittent fasting (IF) would suffice.

Increased secretion of GH is triggered by low sugar levels in the blood. GH intervenes by increasing blood sugar by using glucose stored in the liver. Thus, GH is an important component of metabolism.

Increased secretion can be further achieved by exercising during a fasted state, by helping to deplete blood glucose levels faster and is better achieved with high intensity workouts. It can also be achieved with low intensity cardio workouts in a fasted state but this low intensity cardio needs to be longer.

Exercise on its own (without fasting) can result to 2 fold increase in GH secretion if done intermittently during throughout a 24 hr period.

GH has protective effect against loss of muscle mass as well as ketones and a component in hypertrophy (muscle-building). This is why I prefer and advice to workout in a fasted stated without eating anything if you're not burning a total of over 1,000 Calories in a workout session(s) for increased GH and ketone levels.

Exercising in a fasted state also results in higher GH levels immediately after exercise and this will help you build muscles if you eat protein-rich and high glycemic, high carb foods immediately or soon after exercise.

Finally, increased GH secretion can result to increased rate of fat burning.

Most people would be better off focusing on reducing stress, eating a healthier diet and getting more sleep to increase growth hormone.

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Ironically, GH is known to reduced perceived stress. And the endorphins released from exercise can really help rest the mind at the end of a stressful week. The quality of sleep I get is perfect on the other-hand, albeit with lots of vivid dreaming.

What could reduce GH secretion:
- Sedentary lifestyle
- Age. The older we get, the less GH we make but again, this may depend on a lot of factors, not just genetics.
- Overweight/obese.
- Anti-placebo effect. (if you don't believe or strongly doubt anything I said here) It might actually be sufficient to nullify the positive outcomes if you attempt to do any of the methods I mentioned.

High intensity workouts like that also require alot of recovery.

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Only in the beginning. But as you get used to it, you may not even need recovery anymore as I am now. Do note that GH secretion will increase further as your body adapts and the muscles will get more efficient at repairing itself and increased GH and ketones may even completely prevent muscle tissue damage.

I do all kinds of workouts each week in different days. Long and low to moderate intensity cardio (running and cycling), short and high intensity sessions (cycling), and weight lifting for strength-resistance.

timewerx said:

The increase in growth hormone (GH) secretion can be as much as three-fold increase in just 1 day of fasting and up to 10-fold increase in 5 days.

For practicality sake, 12-24 hr intermittent fasting (IF) would suffice.

Increased secretion of GH is triggered by low sugar levels in the blood. GH intervenes by increasing blood sugar by using glucose stored in the liver. Thus, GH is an important component of metabolism.

Increased secretion can be further achieved by exercising during a fasted state, by helping to deplete blood glucose levels faster and is better achieved with high intensity workouts. It can also be achieved with low intensity cardio workouts in a fasted state but this low intensity cardio needs to be longer.

Exercise on its own (without fasting) can result to 2 fold increase in GH secretion if done intermittently during throughout a 24 hr period.

GH has protective effect against loss of muscle mass as well as ketones and a component in hypertrophy (muscle-building). This is why I prefer and advice to workout in a fasted stated without eating anything if you're not burning a total of over 1,000 Calories in a workout session(s) for increased GH and ketone levels.

Exercising in a fasted state also results in higher GH levels immediately after exercise and this will help you build muscles if you eat protein-rich and high glycemic, high carb foods immediately or soon after exercise.

Finally, increased GH secretion can result to increased rate of fat burning.



Ironically, GH is known to reduced perceived stress. And the endorphins released from exercise can really help rest the mind at the end of a stressful week. The quality of sleep I get is perfect on the other-hand, albeit with lots of vivid dreaming.

What could reduce GH secretion:
- Sedentary lifestyle
- Age. The older we get, the less GH we make but again, this may depend on a lot of factors, not just genetics.
- Overweight/obese.
- Anti-placebo effect. (if you don't believe or strongly doubt anything I said here) It might actually be sufficient to nullify the positive outcomes if you attempt to do any of the methods I mentioned.



Only in the beginning. But as you get used to it, you may not even need recovery anymore as I am now. Do note that GH secretion will increase further as your body adapts and the muscles will get more efficient at repairing itself and increased GH and ketones may even completely prevent muscle tissue damage.

I do all kinds of workouts each week in different days. Long and low to moderate intensity cardio (running and cycling), short and high intensity sessions (cycling), and weight lifting for strength-resistance.

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You've probably spent a great deal of time adapting to lots of intense cardio.

It may be too early to say for certain, but the measurements I've taken in the past week are suggestive that reducing cardio intensity and focusing on getting more recovery days is leading to fat loss and/or muscle gain. Using a tape measure based calculation, body fat percentage seems to have fallen to about 21.7 percent, so that's down from the plateau at 21.9. I gained a few pounds very quickly, and my guess is that it's mostly water weight due to increased glycogen, as the waist measurements haven't changed at all.

FireDragon76 said:

You've probably spent a great deal of time adapting to lots of intense cardio.

It may be too early to say for certain, but the measurements I've taken in the past week are suggestive that reducing cardio intensity and focusing on getting more recovery days is leading to fat loss and/or muscle gain. Using a tape measure based calculation, body fat percentage seems to have fallen to about 21.7 percent, so that's down from the plateau at 21.9. I gained a few pounds very quickly, and my guess is that it's mostly water weight due to increased glycogen, as the waist measurements haven't changed at all.

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Circadian rhythm (when to eat, when to exercise, when to sleep, what to eat in the morning, what after exercise, what before sleeping...) may help you to achieve better results with all these activities. I do not know if you take the rhythm into consideration or not, maybe you mentioned it before.

Also, the timing of supplements (creatin, magnesium etc) helps.

I think the increase in calories is paying off, specifically increasing carbohydrates. Today I went to the gymn and worked out for about thirty minutes. I had alot more power to do exercises like deadlifts, barbell rows, bicep curls, tricep and chest presses using the cable machine. I used the bar attachment, and that added about five pounds in itself, so the lifts were somewhat harder. Even though the gymn was in the 60's and unheated (the unit in the room is broken), I still managed to work up a bit of a sweat.

FireDragon76 said:

You've probably spent a great deal of time adapting to lots of intense cardio.

It may be too early to say for certain, but the measurements I've taken in the past week are suggestive that reducing cardio intensity and focusing on getting more recovery days is leading to fat loss and/or muscle gain. Using a tape measure based calculation, body fat percentage seems to have fallen to about 21.7 percent, so that's down from the plateau at 21.9. I gained a few pounds very quickly, and my guess is that it's mostly water weight due to increased glycogen, as the waist measurements haven't changed at all.

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Sounds like you might be overtraining where indeed spending more time in recovery or backing down on your efforts or progressing slower may bring positive results or it could just be sore muscles.

I agree you might need to reduce cardio intensity. In fact, intensity should be real easy so you're not having sore muscles if your goal is simply to burn more fat. The last video you shared talked about "HEAT" workouts in one of the last topics. Doing easy and leisurely cardio like taking a walk in the park while listening to music or podcast.

You might find it extremely helpful to extend your walks by taking a walk in the park while listening to a preaching or sermon. Getting the mind distracted while working out can dramatically improve your endurance and reduce fatigue. It may sound crazy, yet it's true. Time flies if the mind is distracted (and the sermon/preaching is really good). Even better, get your SO to walk with you so you'll have someone to talk to while walking. Distraction works wonders in a workout.

But here's a very important thing you should know about sore muscles. Sore muscles will retain water from inflammation and can manifest as increase in weight and since water is lighter than muscles or lean mass, it can also manifest as increased fat%. This is not a bad thing since this only temporary.

By the time you've gotten used to your routines and no longer getting sore muscles, water retention will go down and you'll lose weight from less water retention. In my case, my weight can fluctuate as much as 3.5% of body weight within 24 hrs from water retention by sore muscles.

I gained a few pounds very quickly, and my guess is that it's mostly water weight due to increased glycogen, as the waist measurements haven't changed at all

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Yes, it can be recharged glycogen and additionally from water retention by sore / inflamed muscles. As you get used to your workouts, you'll get sore less and will retain less water, hence lose weight from reduced water retention.

You might be tempted to take meds to deal with inflamed muscles and pain like Ibuprofen. I would advice not. Pain/soreness can be a good indicator to make sure you don't push yourself too hard and end up injuring yourself.

timewerx said:

Sounds like you might be overtraining where indeed spending more time in recovery or backing down on your efforts or progressing slower may bring positive results or it could just be sore muscles.

I agree you might need to reduce cardio intensity. In fact, intensity should be real easy so you're not having sore muscles if your goal is simply to burn more fat. The last video you shared talked about "HEAT" workouts in one of the last topics. Doing easy and leisurely cardio like taking a walk in the park while listening to music or podcast.

You might find it extremely helpful to extend your walks by taking a walk in the park while listening to a preaching or sermon. Getting the mind distracted while working out can dramatically improve your endurance and reduce fatigue. It may sound crazy, yet it's true. Time flies if the mind is distracted (and the sermon/preaching is really good). Even better, get your SO to walk with you so you'll have someone to talk to while walking. Distraction works wonders in a workout.

But here's a very important thing you should know about sore muscles. Sore muscles will retain water from inflammation and can manifest as increase in weight and since water is lighter than muscles or lean mass, it can also manifest as increased fat%. This is not a bad thing since this only temporary.

By the time you've gotten used to your routines and no longer getting sore muscles, water retention will go down and you'll lose weight from less water retention. In my case, my weight can fluctuate as much as 3.5% of body weight within 24 hrs from water retention by sore muscles.



Yes, it can be recharged glycogen and additionally from water retention by sore / inflamed muscles. As you get used to your workouts, you'll get sore less and will retain less water, hence lose weight from reduced water retention.

You might be tempted to take meds to deal with inflamed muscles and pain like Ibuprofen. I would advice not. Pain/soreness can be a good indicator to make sure you don't push yourself too hard and end up injuring yourself.

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I'm not experiencing sore muscle so much as fatigue after a treadmill session. I feel drained and low on energy, and my overall activity decreases.

The best pace for sustainable exertion with no recovery needed seems to be at a heart rate of 88-92 beets per minute, but at that pace, I am walking relatively slowly. I also haven't found it to be useful for fat loss beyond a certain point. Getting around 5,000 steps per day, and resistance training 3 times a week, seems to be enough physical activity at the moment.