the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

Strong in Him · Nov 20, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
Actually no. 2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

Absolutely.
But not for day to day living in the 21st century.

Bible Highlighter said:
If we start to invent sin that just comes into our own heads vs. looking to the Word of God, then we not believing the Bible and we are just inventing our own version of the faith.

I never said anything about inventing sin, nor about inventing the faith.
I said that the Bible does not tell us, specifically, what job we should have, what university we should go to etc.
Of course, it could be that some people think that God doesn't mind what we do, and use their God given common sense to decide. But some Christians like to ask God's guidance on these things.

Bible Highlighter said:
This is false. The Bible can speak to every situation of your life.

It can't tell me which the best charity is to support - nor the best church to go to, the best person to marry, whether or not to give my money to this person, or that project.
There are thousands of charities, all good causes. How am I supposed to know the best one to support?
The one whose CEO earns the least? The one that agrees with all my morals/politics? Only Christian charities - in case other charities employ unbelievers? What about if the Christian charity has a statement of faith that I don't agree with?

The NT says that we have the mind of Christ, and we can try and do what we think he would do, we can obviously try to align with spiritual principles and teaching. But none of the answers to the above can be found in the Bible.

Bible Highlighter said:
Nowhere does the Bible say it is not relevant when it comes to certain cultural things.

Well maybe you'd like to show me, from the Bible, where I can find advice on buying a new computer?
Trainers, shoes or boots?
Moped or bicycle?
Didn't Paul say anything about which supermarket I should shop in?

The Bible does not say "this is how you should live now. But for those reading this in 2000 years time, here are your guidelines/instructions."

Bible Highlighter said:
If computers, smart phones, and iPads make a person to stumble into sin, then it is advisable for a person to limit or cut off the use of these things.

Agreed.
But there is no verse in the Bible which specifically mentions owning a computer/smart phone etc. The fact is they simply hadn't been invented.
Yes, we apply general principles, but the Bible does not specifically talk about things which had not yet been invented.
That is my point.

Bible Highlighter said:
It depends on the plane.

No, it doesn't.
There is no Biblical answer to the question "should I buy a plane, or even travel on one?" The Bible cannot address the question of air travel; the plane hadn't been invented then. It can give us general principles about money - but does not tell us what to spend it on.

Bible Highlighter said:
The same principle is the same in having a sword.

I didn't say "sword" I said "gun".
The Bible doesn't say whether or not people should own guns because they hadn't been invented then. Guns are cultural.

Bible Highlighter said:
We are one in Christ and so if there is no instruction or detail, we are to assume that women are not to divorce, either.

My point was only that if some people say "show me the verse to show that that is allowed/not allowed" they may be asking for the impossible.
If someone said, "assumptions are not good enough; show me the verse which says that a woman cannot divorce her husband", you wouldn't be able to find one. That a women has the right to instigate divorce, is cultural.

There are also no verses which teach about domestic violence, marital rape, custody of children or anything like that.
We can apply general principles, but there is nothing in Scripture to say that a woman has to stay with a man who has just beat her, for example.

Bible Highlighter said:
What matters is…. “What saith the Scriptures?”

My only point has been that sometimes the Scriptures don't say anything.

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, I believe the Bible has the answers to even these things. One has to pray and ask and then look at Scripture diligently. God talks to His people by His Word in all things.

He can also speak to us through other people, sermons/Christians writings. The Holy Spirit in us can prompt, or urge, us to do, or follow, certain things.
And God CAN speak to us audibly. It probably won't happen every day; it might not ever happen to some Christians, but it can.
God spoke audibly at Jesus' baptism and transfiguration. He spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus, and to Peter when he had his vision.
Back in the OT God spoke to Abraham to prevent him from killing Isaac, and to Samuel, when he was a boy. Samuel didn't know God's voice and thought that it was Eli who was calling him.

God spoke to me, once, too. I know that because nothing else would have changed my life so completely. Yes, it was definitely Biblical; he said "Jesus loves you". But the point is that it was a voice, not a Bible verse or a nudge to read 1 John 4.

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, I believe the Bible has the answers to even these things. One has to pray and ask and then look at Scripture diligently. God talks to His people by His Word in all things.

I can assure you it doesn't.
There is no verse in the Bible which says "forget about going to university in Scotland and apply only to English Universities."
Or "if you decide to go into teaching, this is the age group you should teach."
Or "when you go into nursing, don't apply to be a general nurse, but a nurse for people with Mental Handicaps".

Bible Highlighter said:
Well, the problem if they believe God audibly talks to them, their reading of Scripture will be tainted to favor their extra biblical communication.

Only if they are claiming that God is teaching them different Christian doctrine.

What God may say to me about my personal decisions has no bearing on how I read Jesus' parables.
I suppose there might be Christians who say, "well God told me that going abroad would be wrong for me, therefore it has to be wrong for everyone; therefore I will not believe that Paul did it".
But I am not one of them.

Yes, of course we are to test the spirits - but we are also to let God be God and not tell him that he can't/will never do something.
Peter nearly did; "no, Lord; I don't eat unclean things". If he had looked in Scripture, he would have indeed seen confirmation that those creatures were unclean. But God said "rise and eat."

Bible Highlighter · Nov 20, 2023

Strong in Him said:
Absolutely.
But not for day to day living in the 21st century.

I never said anything about inventing sin, nor about inventing the faith.
I said that the Bible does not tell us, specifically, what job we should have, what university we should go to etc.
Of course, it could be that some people think that God doesn't mind what we do, and use their God given common sense to decide. But some Christians like to ask God's guidance on these things.

It can't tell me which the best charity is to support - nor the best church to go to, the best person to marry, whether or not to give my money to this person, or that project.
There are thousands of charities, all good causes. How am I supposed to know the best one to support?
The one whose CEO earns the least? The one that agrees with all my morals/politics? Only Christian charities - in case other charities employ unbelievers? What about if the Christian charity has a statement of faith that I don't agree with?

The NT says that we have the mind of Christ, and we can try and do what we think he would do, we can obviously try to align with spiritual principles and teaching. But none of the answers to the above can be found in the Bible.

Well maybe you'd like to show me, from the Bible, where I can find advice on buying a new computer?
Trainers, shoes or boots?
Moped or bicycle?
Didn't Paul say anything about which supermarket I should shop in?

The Bible does not say "this is how you should live now. But for those reading this in 2000 years time, here are your guidelines/instructions."

Agreed.
But there is no verse in the Bible which specifically mentions owning a computer/smart phone etc. The fact is they simply hadn't been invented.
Yes, we apply general principles, but the Bible does not specifically talk about things which had not yet been invented.
That is my point.

No, it doesn't.
There is no Biblical answer to the question "should I buy a plane, or even travel on one?" The Bible cannot address the question of air travel; the plane hadn't been invented then. It can give us general principles about money - but does not tell us what to spend it on.

I didn't say "sword" I said "gun".
The Bible doesn't say whether or not people should own guns because they hadn't been invented then. Guns are cultural.

My point was only that if some people say "show me the verse to show that that is allowed/not allowed" they may be asking for the impossible.
If someone said, "assumptions are not good enough; show me the verse which says that a woman cannot divorce her husband", you wouldn't be able to find one. That a women has the right to instigate divorce, is cultural.

There are also no verses which teach about domestic violence, marital rape, custody of children or anything like that.
We can apply general principles, but there is nothing in Scripture to say that a woman has to stay with a man who has just beat her, for example.

My only point has been that sometimes the Scriptures don't say anything.

He can also speak to us through other people, sermons/Christians writings. The Holy Spirit in us can prompt, or urge, us to do, or follow, certain things.
And God CAN speak to us audibly. It probably won't happen every day; it might not ever happen to some Christians, but it can.
God spoke audibly at Jesus' baptism and transfiguration. He spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus, and to Peter when he had his vision.
Back in the OT God spoke to Abraham to prevent him from killing Isaac, and to Samuel, when he was a boy. Samuel didn't know God's voice and thought that it was Eli who was calling him.

God spoke to me, once, too. I know that because nothing else would have changed my life so completely. Yes, it was definitely Biblical; he said "Jesus loves you". But the point is that it was a voice, not a Bible verse or a nudge to read 1 John 4.

I can assure you it doesn't.
There is no verse in the Bible which says "forget about going to university in Scotland and apply only to English Universities."
Or "if you decide to go into teaching, this is the age group you should teach."
Or "when you go into nursing, don't apply to be a general nurse, but a nurse for people with Mental Handicaps".

Only if they are claiming that God is teaching them different Christian doctrine.

What God may say to me about my personal decisions has no bearing on how I read Jesus' parables.
I suppose there might be Christians who say, "well God told me that going abroad would be wrong for me, therefore it has to be wrong for everyone; therefore I will not believe that Paul did it".
But I am not one of them.

Yes, of course we are to test the spirits - but we are also to let God be God and not tell him that he can't/will never do something.
Peter nearly did; "no, Lord; I don't eat unclean things". If he had looked in Scripture, he would have indeed seen confirmation that those creatures were unclean. But God said "rise and eat."

Do you believe you can act righteously or unrighteously by the decisions you mentioned above?
One charity may be in line with heretical beliefs.
Does God even approve of going to school? Or is that more of a decision by man?
What is the motivation to going to school? Granted, I am not saying it is a sin to go to school. But we have to always constantly look at what we do in light of what God’s Word says. Jesus seemed to have a problem with a new convert of His going back to his family to attend a funeral. This life is short, and we really do not want to waste a moment not living for our Lord.
Even choosing a grocery store to shop from can be done with the intention that aligns closer to biblical values than other grocery stores (Although it is not necessary for every believer or Christian to come to this knowledge of the truth right away. Believers who mature in the faith only want Jesus and to please Him by His Word). The idea here is that we are to be obedient to God in all things, and to surrender our life completely to Christ (According to His Word). The more we see of Christ in our life by keeping God’s commands, the more we are in line with making more and more biblical decisions even on the smallest matters. The Psalms basically say that God magnifies His Word above His name.

Anyway, I mentioned how the sword would be the equivalent of our gun today. You seem to lack spiritual discernment on grasping such things. There is no real point to try and convince you here. You believe God can at times speak audibly to you, which I believe is unbiblical in light of the close of Revelation. God spoke to the apostles and the early church and He does not speak to us audibly. That is why we have the Bible, unlike they had. There are warnings in Scripture not to add or take away from His words. The canon of Scripture is closed. He speaks to us by His Word today. Again, I am not here to convince you. You have rationalized that you don’t need the Bible to make certain life decisions. I believe you can do so and it is absolutely necessary. Jesus said abide in Him and abide in His words. But we can agree to disagree. Carry on with your life as you want it to be. I will continue to make the most smallest decisions that are in line with God’s Word, and in seeking to look to it for such decisions. In short, our life should be about glorifying the Bible and not ourselves. Less of me, and more of Him.

Strong in Him · Nov 20, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
Do you believe you can act righteously or unrighteously by the decisions you mentioned above?

A decision to go to Exeter university rather than Durham, is neither righteous nor unrighteous.
The Bible gives no advice on the subject - yet you said that the Bible tells us how to live in every area of our lives.

Bible Highlighter said:
Does God even approve of going to school? Or is that more of a decision by man?
What is the motivation to going to school?

I didn't say "school" I said "university".
Going to school is a legal requirement (unless your parents home school you). Going to university - i.e. further education - is a choice.

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus seemed to have a problem with a new convert of His going back to his family to attend a funeral.

What on earth has that got to do with an 18 year old trying to decide whether to go to university?

Bible Highlighter said:
This life is short, and we really do not want to waste a moment not living for our Lord.

Christians can live for God at university.

Bible Highlighter said:
Even choosing a grocery store to shop from can be done with the intention that aligns closer to biblical values than other grocery stores

Yes, it can.
All I am saying that the Bible does not teach this. The 11th commandment is not "thou shalt not shop at Waitrose".

Bible Highlighter said:
The more we see of Christ in our life by keeping God’s commands, the more we are in line with making more and more biblical decisions even on the smallest matters.

Yes, agreed. But Scripture gives no specific teaching on these subjects; that is all I am saying.

Of course we can come to know God's will if we are close to him, are transformed by the renewing of our minds and so on. I'm not saying otherwise.
I'm saying that our Bible does not teach/advise us on such matters. You haven't been able to give me a Bible verse on which computer I should buy, or whether I should buy one at all; there isn't one. If I want to know what the Lord's will is on such issues I talk to him. Sometimes I may get a nudge in one direction; sometimes not. Sometimes he wants me to use my God given common sense, and consider other factors such as "am I buying it to show off?" "Is it an urgent need?" "can I afford it without going into debt?"
But he wont say, "look in the 3rd book of the NT, chapter 4.

Bible Highlighter said:
Anyway, I mentioned how the sword would be the equivalent of our gun today. You seem to lack spiritual discernment on grasping such things.

Sorry but either you're not reading my posts correctly or you don't understand.

I am not talking about "the equivalent of"; I am not talking about assumptions.
At one point, you said:

Bible Highlighter said:
They gave me no verse for any kind of biblical support.

I was asking; where's your verse for Biblical support for owning a gun - not a sword, a gun?
There isn't one. Guns hadn't been invented then. They came along only later - in a different culture.
Women going out to work or divorcing men wasn't possible then - they became possible only later, in a different culture.
The Bible does not address a culture that didn't exist when it was written.

God doesn't contradict his word but he can, and does, speak to us today over the 101 decisions we need to make in our day to day lives - because he knows that we want to honour him. He may not always speak audibly; in fact I think that's rare. But he can still guide us.
And it's not contradicting Scripture because Scripture is silent on these matters.

Bible Highlighter said:
You believe God can at times speak audibly to you, which I believe is unbiblical in light of the close of Revelation.

You can believe what you want - it happened, and today I am a Christian.
If you want to tell God that he can't act in that way, that's up to you.

Bible Highlighter said:
That is why we have the Bible, unlike they had. There are warnings in Scripture not to add or take away from His words.

He gave no words in the Bible about which computer to buy or which university to go to - therefore he is not adding or taking away from them.

Bible Highlighter said:
You have rationalized that you don’t need the Bible to make certain life decisions.

Rubbish! I said nothing of the sort.
I said that I cannot decide what computer to buy, for example, by looking in the Bible, because it isn't there.
Certain principles about expense, need, greed, yes; the words "God wants you to buy a ...... laptop", no. I have even challenged you to find a verse which tells me exactly what God would want me to buy/what university I should have gone to, and you've been unable to do so.

If I'm not explaining myself very well; say so.
But please don't go completely over the top and accuse me of wanting to ditch Scripture altogether.

Bible Highlighter said:
I believe you can do so and it is absolutely necessary.

So what verse did God give you to let you know he wanted you to sign up to these forums?
What verses does he show you to let you know what he wants you to wear/eat each day?

Bible Highlighter said:
Carry on with your life as you want it to be.

Thank you; I have every intention of doing so.

Bible Highlighter said:
I will continue to make the most smallest decisions that are in line with God’s Word,

As I said, let me know what verses he gives you about the things you should wear/eat each day.

Bible Highlighter said:
In short, our life should be about glorifying the Bible

No, it should be about glorifying God.

Bible Highlighter said:
Less of me, and more of Him.

Exactly; more of HIM.
And if he chose to speak to me audibly, he would have the right to do so.
If he were to tell me one day that he wanted me to work in London, Manchester, France or America - places that aren't mentioned in the Bible - he would have the right to do so.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 21, 2023

Strong in Him said:
A decision to go to Exeter university rather than Durham, is neither righteous nor unrighteous.
The Bible gives no advice on the subject - yet you said that the Bible tells us how to live in every area of our lives.

I didn't say "school" I said "university".
Going to school is a legal requirement (unless your parents home school you). Going to university - i.e. further education - is a choice.

What on earth has that got to do with an 18 year old trying to decide whether to go to university?

Christians can live for God at university.

Yes, it can.
All I am saying that the Bible does not teach this. The 11th commandment is not "thou shalt not shop at Waitrose".

Yes, agreed. But Scripture gives no specific teaching on these subjects; that is all I am saying.

Of course we can come to know God's will if we are close to him, are transformed by the renewing of our minds and so on. I'm not saying otherwise.
I'm saying that our Bible does not teach/advise us on such matters. You haven't been able to give me a Bible verse on which computer I should buy, or whether I should buy one at all; there isn't one. If I want to know what the Lord's will is on such issues I talk to him. Sometimes I may get a nudge in one direction; sometimes not. Sometimes he wants me to use my God given common sense, and consider other factors such as "am I buying it to show off?" "Is it an urgent need?" "can I afford it without going into debt?"
But he wont say, "look in the 3rd book of the NT, chapter 4.

Sorry but either you're not reading my posts correctly or you don't understand.

I am not talking about "the equivalent of"; I am not talking about assumptions.
At one point, you said:

I was asking; where's your verse for Biblical support for owning a gun - not a sword, a gun?
There isn't one. Guns hadn't been invented then. They came along only later - in a different culture.
Women going out to work or divorcing men wasn't possible then - they became possible only later, in a different culture.
The Bible does not address a culture that didn't exist when it was written.

God doesn't contradict his word but he can, and does, speak to us today over the 101 decisions we need to make in our day to day lives - because he knows that we want to honour him. He may not always speak audibly; in fact I think that's rare. But he can still guide us.
And it's not contradicting Scripture because Scripture is silent on these matters.

You can believe what you want - it happened, and today I am a Christian.
If you want to tell God that he can't act in that way, that's up to you.

He gave no words in the Bible about which computer to buy or which university to go to - therefore he is not adding or taking away from them.

Rubbish! I said nothing of the sort.
I said that I cannot decide what computer to buy, for example, by looking in the Bible, because it isn't there.
Certain principles about expense, need, greed, yes; the words "God wants you to buy a ...... laptop", no. I have even challenged you to find a verse which tells me exactly what God would want me to buy/what university I should have gone to, and you've been unable to do so.

If I'm not explaining myself very well; say so.
But please don't go completely over the top and accuse me of wanting to ditch Scripture altogether.

So what verse did God give you to let you know he wanted you to sign up to these forums?
What verses does he show you to let you know what he wants you to wear/eat each day?

Thank you; I have every intention of doing so.

As I said, let me know what verses he gives you about the things you should wear/eat each day.

No, it should be about glorifying God.

Exactly; more of HIM.
And if he chose to speak to me audibly, he would have the right to do so.
If he were to tell me one day that he wanted me to work in London, Manchester, France or America - places that aren't mentioned in the Bible - he would have the right to do so.

Here we go again with the elaborate response that i was not looking for. As i said, there is no point in trying to convince you of something you do not want to see. You have chosen your position on this topic.

Strong in Him · Nov 21, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
Here we go again with the elaborate response that i was not looking for. As i said, there is no point in trying to convince you of something you do not want to see. You have chosen your position on this topic.

1. You can't talk about elaborate responses when I say "the Bible does not refer to ......" and you reply "you have rationalised that you don't need the Bible to make certain life decisions".
2. I started my post by saying that I agreed with you. I do agree with some of what you have written on this topic, and I thought you might appreciate, and be encouraged by, that. Instead, I get accusations and insults.
3. If you don't understand what I am trying to say, tell me - don't make the ridiculous statement that "I do not want to see."
4. If you can't answer something I write, say so. If you'd said, "you're right, there is no verse instructing us what computer to buy; however, what I meant was .......", that would have been honest and respectful. Instead, you've failed to answer my challenge (because you can't) and accused me of being blind and making elaborate statements.
5. It's ok to agree with me on some things, as I have with you; it doesn't mean you have to approve of everything I write.
6. I wasn't writing to take "a position on this topic". I wrote to, partially, agree with your post, to make an observation and to say that there were a couple of things I disagreed with. I said the same thing to the OP in post #12.

Saltyjames · Nov 23, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
You will miss out on some great blessings if you do not seek revelation from God. Revelation will never contradict God's word, but it is living and active and can apply in a difficult situation.

God has spoken to me about 40 times in my 50 or so years as a Christian. He saved my life more than once. Decades ago, I was suicidally depressed. I planned to take my life. God broke through my depression and asked me, "How can you do this to your kids"? That stopped me in my tracks. Now I looked in my Bible, but I could not find "How can you do this to your kids". It must be in the Message bible.

Paul prayed that God's people would receive the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. If more Christians had revelation, the church would be less fragmented, less confused and more united.

I believe this about the "How can you do this to your kids"? part.
This makes sense.
Consider: "All good things come from God."

.... and "How can you do this to your kids?" is in the message bible. It's in the preface.

Regarding "If more Christians had revelation, the church would be less fragmented.."
I agree, but I would say:
If more REAL Christians had revelation, the church would be less fragmented...
Fake christians holding congregations hostage with their 'revelations' causes a lot of problems in many churches.

You will know them by their fruit.
You will know them by their love.

Aussie Pete · Nov 23, 2023

Saltyjames said:
I believe this about the "How can you do this to your kids"? part.
This makes sense.
Consider: "All good things come from God."

.... and "How can you do this to your kids?" is in the message bible. It's in the preface.

Regarding "If more Christians had revelation, the church would be less fragmented.."
I agree, but I would say:
If more REAL Christians had revelation, the church would be less fragmented...
Fake christians holding congregations hostage with their 'revelations' causes a lot of problems in many churches.

You will know them by their fruit.
You will know them by their love.

Aussie Pete · Nov 23, 2023

The church is the real Christians. Sadly, many meetings allow unbelievers and make believers to participate. There are much better ways of witnessing to people of the world.

Der Alte · Nov 23, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
The church is the real Christians. Sadly, many meetings allow unbelievers and make believers to participate. There are much better ways of witnessing to people of the world.

*Confused* How can the church minister to "unbelievers" and "make believers" if they are not allowed to participate?

Strong in Him · Nov 23, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
The church is the real Christians. Sadly, many meetings allow unbelievers and make believers to participate. There are much better ways of witnessing to people of the world.

Are you saying we should ask someone if they are a born again Christian or just a church attender before asking them to read the lesson or welcoming them to communion?

Aussie Pete · Nov 23, 2023

Der Alte said:
*Confused* How can the church minister to "unbelievers" and "make believers" if they are not allowed to participate?

Separate meetings. The Brethren have two meetings on a Sunday. The first is a gospel presentation. It's open to anyone. The second meeting is held after a break. Where I was going, they had refreshments and food for lunch. If anyone was saved in the first meeting, they were welcomed into the fellowship meeting, which was always a communion time as well.

The church is the body of Christ, the "living temple". You would not build a structure of mud and marble. They did not put a guard on the door or prevent people coming to the meeting. Neither did they have an "All Welcome" sign out the front. There are other means such as Alpha courses or meetings for enquirers.

Strong in Him · Nov 24, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
Separate meetings. The Brethren have two meetings on a Sunday. The first is a gospel presentation. It's open to anyone. The second meeting is held after a break. Where I was going, they had refreshments and food for lunch. If anyone was saved in the first meeting, they were welcomed into the fellowship meeting, which was always a communion time as well.

The church is the body of Christ, the "living temple". You would not build a structure of mud and marble. They did not put a guard on the door or prevent people coming to the meeting. Neither did they have an "All Welcome" sign out the front. There are other means such as Alpha courses or meetings for enquirers.

So in other words, "you can't join us until you share our faith/believe,/have been converted"?
It's a good job Jesus didn't do that his 12 closest followers didn't understand, or really believe, until after the resurrection.

Aussie Pete · Nov 24, 2023

Strong in Him said:
So in other words, "you can't join us until you share our faith/believe,/have been converted"?
It's a good job Jesus didn't do that his 12 closest followers didn't understand, or really believe, until after the resurrection.

Do you know what the church is? It's the body of Christ. Jesus is the Head of the church. You are right, the disciples did not understand until after Jesus was raised from the dead. The church is not a club that you join. It is spiritual and spiritual things are spiritually understood. Without the Spirit, there is no understanding.

The problem with an open door policy is that the real Christians are often outnumbered by the false. Statistically, around 4% of church attenders are born again. Obviously this varies from assembly to assembly. There are not too many phonies in Iran or Iraq. The price is too high. That's not the case, at least for now, in the Western world.

From experience, I know that phonies in the church can be utterly destructive. What fellowship can light have with darkness? How can two walk together unless they agree?

Lost4words · Nov 24, 2023

The Gospel is indeed complete.

The problem we have is the thousands upon thousands of people who believe only they can interpret God's Word correctly!!

Strong in Him · Nov 24, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
Do you know what the church is? It's the body of Christ. Jesus is the Head of the church. You are right, the disciples did not understand until after Jesus was raised from the dead. The church is not a club that you join.

You are talking about two different things.
THE church is all believers - all who have been born again, belong to Christ, are his children and part of his body. Yes, we need the Holy Spirit before we can be born again and have assurance that we are children of God.
A church is a local gathering of people - mostly Christians, but it may also include seekers or those who doubt (like Thomas did). Many people followed Jesus. Some turned away when it got too tough (John 6:66), but they were still followers, allowed in his company and may even have been sent out to preach the Good News at some point.
Anyone is allowed to attended A church, and it would be wise to let them do so. To say to someone "we require you to believe and be like us before we let you in", would be unfair, exclusive and may be the quickest way to put someone off. If they can't get into a church building to hear the Gospel, where else are they supposed to hear it?

Like I said - not what Jesus did.

Aussie Pete said:
The problem with an open door policy is that the real Christians are often outnumbered by the false.

And the problem with an exclusive policy is that Christ's people are seen as sitting in a holy huddle, discriminating, judging.
How is that being light to the world?
How is that helping others to find Jesus?

Aussie Pete said:
From experience, I know that phonies in the church can be utterly destructive.

There are some Christians who say all the right things, use the right language, go to services every week and would be judged to be faithful and sincere, who aren't.

Is claiming to love as Jesus loved but in fact being judgemental and discriminatory not being phoney?

Aussie Pete · Nov 24, 2023

Strong in Him said:
You are talking about two different things.
THE church is all believers - all who have been born again, belong to Christ, are his children and part of his body. Yes, we need the Holy Spirit before we can be born again and have assurance that we are children of God.
A church is a local gathering of people - mostly Christians, but it may also include seekers or those who doubt (like Thomas did). Many people followed Jesus. Some turned away when it got too tough (John 6:66), but they were still followers, allowed in his company and may even have been sent out to preach the Good News at some point.
Anyone is allowed to attended A church, and it would be wise to let them do so. To say to someone "we require you to believe and be like us before we let you in", would be unfair, exclusive and may be the quickest way to put someone off. If they can't get into a church building to hear the Gospel, where else are they supposed to hear it?

Like I said - not what Jesus did.

And the problem with an exclusive policy is that Christ's people are seen as sitting in a holy huddle, discriminating, judging.
How is that being light to the world?
How is that helping others to find Jesus?

There are some Christians who say all the right things, use the right language, go to services every week and would be judged to be faithful and sincere, who aren't.

Is claiming to love as Jesus loved but in fact being judgemental and discriminatory not being phoney?

I've been in meetings where witches attended, placing curses on the meeting. One church I attended was torn apart by one man who was a plant from Satan. If you have a wide open window, don't be surprised if all kinds of bugs come in.

Aussie Pete · Nov 24, 2023

Strong in Him said:
You are talking about two different things.
THE church is all believers - all who have been born again, belong to Christ, are his children and part of his body. Yes, we need the Holy Spirit before we can be born again and have assurance that we are children of God.
A church is a local gathering of people - mostly Christians, but it may also include seekers or those who doubt (like Thomas did). Many people followed Jesus. Some turned away when it got too tough (John 6:66), but they were still followers, allowed in his company and may even have been sent out to preach the Good News at some point.
Anyone is allowed to attended A church, and it would be wise to let them do so. To say to someone "we require you to believe and be like us before we let you in", would be unfair, exclusive and may be the quickest way to put someone off. If they can't get into a church building to hear the Gospel, where else are they supposed to hear it?

Like I said - not what Jesus did.

And the problem with an exclusive policy is that Christ's people are seen as sitting in a holy huddle, discriminating, judging.
How is that being light to the world?
How is that helping others to find Jesus?

There are some Christians who say all the right things, use the right language, go to services every week and would be judged to be faithful and sincere, who aren't.

Is claiming to love as Jesus loved but in fact being judgemental and discriminatory not being phoney?

Further to my comments, Christians are supposed to reach out, not drag in. Going to the highways and byways means the church goes to where the sinners are. There are many who would not be seen dead in a church. And you are wrong about the church being mostly Christians. That's a part of the problem of the church in the Western world at least.

Strong in Him · Nov 25, 2023

Aussie Pete said:
Further to my comments, Christians are supposed to reach out, not drag in. Going to the highways and byways means the church goes to where the sinners are. There are many who would not be seen dead in a church.

Absolutely; couldn't agree more.

Aussie Pete said:
And you are wrong about the church being mostly Christians.

I said THE church - not A local congregation which meets together in a church building.
THE church is the bride of Christ.
THE church is being built by the Lord and the gates of hell will never overcome it.
A person can be a church-goer for years but never really meet with God or give their lives to Jesus. Then again, a person may have given up with the local church but are still a Christian and part of THE church.

fhansen · Nov 30, 2023

Cockcrow said:
Jeremiah 23:21 “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.” I get so sick of the "God told me, God Spoke to Me" or the "God sent me to hell and back" extra biblical nonsense, it's always someone who says you lose your salvation by not living right, works salvation. Peter said we have a more sure word of prophecy, Paul said "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." Hey, we don't need any extra biblical revelation today. God spoke audibly at one time but we have the full word of God now all the counsel of God and need not go outside of it for any reason or any revelation. Watch out for these false prophets who say they took a trip to Hell and came back, or God told them to eat at KFC today or other extra biblical nonsense. "God told me this, God told me that" God says I sent them not, these are false prophets. they speak not according to the word, there is no light in them.

If you want to hear from God read his word. has nothing to do with God showing you some extra biblical revelation, don't go outside of what is written, God will never contradict his word. books read them cover to cover, stop looking for extra biblical revelation, God has given to us all that we need, 66 God breathed books, and they are truth meditate on his word day and night. stop this extra biblical nonsense.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Peter 1:21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

People can’t even agree on what His written Word says. Either way, God can and has spoken to people by private revelation, very rarely, ineffably profoundly, for His purposes. These are not the kinds of experiences that most speak of when they say, “God told me”, etc. And never related to the hokey televangelist stuff. Or Pentecostal stuff. All wishful thinking if not outright chickanery.

Jamdoc · Nov 30, 2023

If "God said" isn't followed by at least accurately paraphrasing scripture (like I get you might not be able to word for word quote something sometimes), then it isn't God saying it.

But that said, the bible isn't exhaustive on every topic, even morally, and people have to try to stretch concepts to come to a position on one thing vs another. Some things, God simply hasn't revealed. We can't speak for God outside of scripture, but scripture does not tell us "all we need to know", it tells us the basics of who He is, why we should obey Him, what He did for us to save us and how to get saved and some but not all details of the eventual plan He has for us.

But a lot of things? We simply don't know and God didn't reveal it.

Proverbs 25:2

the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

Great is thy faithfulness

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Great is thy faithfulness

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Great is thy faithfulness

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Great is thy faithfulness

Well-Known Member

Great is thy faithfulness

Well-Known Member

Jesus I Trust In You

Great is thy faithfulness

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Great is thy faithfulness

Oldbie

Watching and Praying Always

Similar threads