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A pastor's sin should remain private?

Tropical Wilds

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Depends on what he preached. If he preached that a Christian life must be a heteronormative life, then hypocrisy is the sin. Remember that the only people Jesus literally cursed were those committing hypocrisy explicitly for their hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy is troubling, but it’s not illegal to be a hypocrite. Clearly he struggled with it being his inclination/who he was in contrast to what he believed, so I don’t think being a hypocrite justifies public outing and shaming. It’s a religious and social transgression, not a legal one.
 
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Oneofhope

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We are an embarrassment when we turn to worldly courts for assistance.

1 Corinthians 6:1 NLT - "When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers!"
 
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Tropical Wilds

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We are an embarrassment when we turn to worldly courts for assistance.

1 Corinthians 6:1 NLT - "When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers!"
My version says “do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people?”

To which I reply “yes, yes I do dare. Not just dare, but very much prefer.”
 
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Oneofhope

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My version says “do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people?”

To which I reply “yes, yes I do dare. Not just dare, but very much prefer.”
Ok. If you don't want to follow Biblical protocol, so be it. That's a pretty strange perspective . . . but . . . modern-day Christians aren't interested in modeling the behaviors of the Righteous, Pure, and Holy. They more exemplify the behaviors of those who are controlled by their original Sinful Nature (that has yet to be cut out by Christ).
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Ok. If you don't want to follow Biblical protocol, so be it. That's a pretty strange perspective . . . but . . . modern-day Christians aren't interested in modeling the behaviors of the Righteous, Pure, and Holy. They more exemplify the behaviors of those who are controlled by their original Sinful Nature (that has yet to be cut out by Christ).
Oh my, that was quite the virtue signal… You both managed to cast judgment on me while praising yourself. Go you.

But it’s also exactly the reason I am not going to somebody outside of the law to decide, mediate, or make the judgment on any legal proceedings I find myself in. With no information, you’ve arrived at your conclusion of who I am and what behaviors I model, which is why I’m going to leave the legal disputes to be handled by actual experts who are knowledgeable in both law and any case before them.
 
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Oneofhope

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Oh my, that was quite the virtue signal… You both managed to cast judgment on me while praising yourself. Go you.

But it’s also exactly the reason I am not going to somebody outside of the law to decide, mediate, or make the judgment on any legal proceedings I find myself in. With no information, you’ve arrived at your conclusion of who I am and what behaviors I model, which is why I’m going to leave the legal disputes to be handled by actual experts who are knowledgeable in both law and any case before them.

I am casting judgment upon you by repeating your own words and ideas that go against Biblical teaching?

This is why I don't attend modern-day churches anymore. The things people say . . .
 
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RDKirk

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It's common sense . . . glad to see that someone gets it. :)

The person who posted after you suggested that babies know what rape and murder is when they're born. Whew . . . Christian websites are mind-boggling.
That was a lie you just told there. Quote someone saying that.
 
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RDKirk

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Like God's Example of Ananias and Saphira ?
It's clear enough in itself:

19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
 
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RDKirk

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The hypocrisy is troubling, but it’s not illegal to be a hypocrite. Clearly he struggled with it being his inclination/who he was in contrast to what he believed, so I don’t think being a hypocrite justifies public outing and shaming. It’s a religious and social transgression, not a legal one.
Discipline in the Church does not exist merely to enforce secular law. Hypocrisy is antithetical to the Christian lifestyle and Christian leadership.

If that pastor was preaching the heteronormative life but could not live it himself, he should have stepped down from a leadership role.
 
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RDKirk

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My version says “do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people?”

To which I reply “yes, yes I do dare. Not just dare, but very much prefer.”
There is much permitted by secular law that would break apart any organization...which is why every organization has its own laws and by-laws.
 
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Oneofhope

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That was a lie you just told there.
Oh.

Your words: "You want to keep people from knowing that sin exists? Too late, that cat is already out of the bag. Children know how to sin before they know how to talk."

Like you say, before children know how to talk, they already know what sin is. So, go ahead and speak about rape and murder . . . "cat's out of the bag."
 
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RDKirk

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Oh.

Your words: "You want to keep people from knowing that sin exists? Too late, that cat is already out of the bag. Children know how to sin before they know how to talk."

Like you say, before children know how to talk, they already know what sin is. So, go ahead and speak about rape and murder . . . "cat's out of the bag."
You seem to be saying that the only sin is rape and murder.

The specific example Paul used in that passage was covetousness...and children certainly know how to covet.
 
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Oneofhope

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You seem to be saying that the only sin is rape and murder.

The specific example Paul used in that passage was covetousness...and children certainly know how to covet.
I'm not interested in these rabbit-hole conversations.

Take care.
 
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jayem

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Here's my 2¢ as a non-religious person, and not a church-goer. If a church leader is charged with a crime or other violation of secular law, then that must be made known to the congregation. And dealt with by the civil authorities. (I'm thinking of child sexual abuse, and that crackpot David Koresh's Branch Davidian cult. Which stockpiled fully automatic weapons, hand grenades, and other military ordnance.) If it's purely a transgression of religious doctrine, then it can be handled by the church board of trustees, or governing elders.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I am casting judgment upon you by repeating your own words and ideas that go against Biblical teaching?

This is why I don't attend modern-day churches anymore. The things people say . . .
You didn’t repeat my own words. I never said anything like “Christians aren't interested in modeling the behaviors of the Righteous, Pure, and Holy. They more exemplify the behaviors of those who are controlled by their original Sinful Nature (that has yet to be cut out by Christ)” when referring to my beliefs or spirituality. That was all you.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Discipline in the Church does not exist merely to enforce secular law. Hypocrisy is antithetical to the Christian lifestyle and Christian leadership.

If that pastor was preaching the heteronormative life but could not live it himself, he should have stepped down from a leadership role.
Maybe, but the question that was asked is if revelations should be kept private, not if he was fit to serve.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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There is much permitted by secular law that would break apart any organization...which is why every organization has its own laws and by-laws.
And in the context of that, fine, but even those bylaws are overseen by secular law.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I did not follow the train of thought here -
is your reply due to the sinfulness, wrongness, or other severe problems (or even not so severe) or injustice you have experienced or seen or been told about in the church(es)?
In other words - hoping to see better or any justice at all by taking it before the ungodly for judgment, because what was called "the Lord's people" were so much unjust/ not taking care of things right ?
Because religious rulings have biases and no standardizations. A layman with faith is not an arbiter of law.
 
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Tinker Grey

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Is that similar to a person from Mongolia telling someone from the usa how to govern concerning the law-breakers? Each country has its own laws and governs itself, supposedly at least. (the world government might be much more involved than we know)...
Likewise each church has its own rules, some in line with Scripture, some not.
No. It's like one rational person who has analogous social engagements discussing with another person (one hopes, rational) what one might do in those analogous situations.
 
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Neostarwcc

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If any of our Elders ever regularly committed a grievous sin not only should and would it be known publicly but that Elder would get instant fired and replaced.

Members of the Presbytery (or Pastors) should be as pure as God commanded them to be. Being a clergyman is not and should not be an easy task that just any Joe shmoe can do.

Our lead Pastor is afraid to even get a speeding ticket let alone something as serious as these pastors committed. Not only should their sin be made public they should be fired.

I'm not saying our Presbytery never sins but more that they do not and should not make a PRACTICE of sinning. There's a huge difference.
 
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