What is Jesus Saving us from ?

Hawkins · Sep 18, 2023

nightmares said:
How about not creating Satan in the first place and thus sparing billions, including Jesus, pain and death

Free will is for everyone, including Satan. A Judgment follows to eliminate evil such that an evil free Heaven can be built. Satan makes no difference from any other entities in terms of Law. It only shows that in a world where God withdraws His influence, it becomes a wilderness-like hell, in such a place naturally the most evil and the most powerful will rule. That's how Satan is referred to as the god of this world.

nightmares · Sep 18, 2023

Hawkins said:
Free will is for everyone, including Satan. A Judgment follows to eliminate evil such that an evil free Heaven can be built. Satan makes no difference from any other entities in terms of Law. It only shows that in a world where God withdraws His influence, it becomes a wilderness-like hell, in such a place naturally the most evil and the most powerful will rule. That's how Satan is referred to as the god of this world.

1. None of us asked for Satan to be the god of this world. And no, there's no indication that Adam/Eve eating from the tree made him such or that they were told doing so would make him such.

2. It is ridiculous that he gets to be a "God" while billions of us have to go through this because, er, reasons

So the question is, what exactly are we supposed to do/learn here that we cannot do anywhere else in existence?

Hawkins · Sep 18, 2023

nightmares said:
1. None of us asked for Satan to be the god of this world. And no, there's no indication that Adam/Eve eating from the tree made him such or that they were told doing so would make him such.

2. It is ridiculous that he gets to be a "God" while billions of us have to go through this because, er, reasons

So the question is, what exactly are we supposed to do/learn here that we cannot do anywhere else in existence?

Satan has all the ability and power to seduce you in his world, and he will. It's not up to you. Satan is literally your god in a world absent of the true God.

In effect and by his exploiting of the Law, Satan literally kept the whole world under his captivity. That's why Jesus is needed for human redemption.

nightmares · Sep 18, 2023

Hawkins said:
Satan has all the ability and power to seduce you in his world, and he will. It's not up to you. Satan is literally you god in a world absent of the true God.

Rubbish

Let's have some consistency in Christianity

If the wages of sin are death then Satan should have been killed a long time ago not made a god

Hawkins · Sep 18, 2023

nightmares said:
Rubbish

Let's have some consistency in Christianity

If the wages of sin are death then Satan should have been killed a long time ago not made a god

No, only the Judgment of Law is legitimate. You didn't read the Bible and Law correclty. There's no Law saying that Satan can be removed without the Judgment of Law. The Bible actually refers Satan to be the god of this world. Please read it again.

In effect, everyone without exception is "seduced" in one way or another, such that no one can be saved without Jesus. That's what the Bible says, which you misread apparently.

nightmares · Sep 18, 2023

Nah there is no justification for keeping Satan alive

He tried to overthrow God did he not.

That's a far worse offence than, say, pulling out so you won't get your brother's wife pregnant and being killed by God for it

Hawkins · Sep 18, 2023

nightmares said:
Nah there is no justification for keeping Satan alive

He tried to overthrow God did he not.

That's a far worse offence than, say, pulling out so you won't get your brother's wife pregnant and being killed by God for it

Again, in terms of Law everyone is equal. Everyone is subject to the Final Judgment of Law. Satan is no different. That's actually why Jesus remains the only way for an escape.

Removing Satan by not following Law is not a solution. Following Jesus to be save is!!!

nightmares · Sep 18, 2023

No

There is no justification whatsoever for keeping Satan alive

Admit you are wrong

Hawkins · Sep 18, 2023

nightmares said:
No

There is no justification whatsoever for keeping Satan alive

Admit you are wrong

That remains your own opinion and not what the Bible says. The purpose of Law itself is to allow everyone (including Satan) to behave to show who himself is, then followed by the Final Judgment of Law to be removed. You can only make an escape by following Jesus. That's what the Bible is trying say.

You don't even know how Law shall function.

Aaron112 · Sep 18, 2023

Newway said:
Something I’ve been confused about, it seems Jesus is here to save us from God? He is the only one who can send ppl to hell. I don’t get it. Or is it the devil? But God can control the devil? Help me make sense of this. Please.

Good questions, seeking truth...
There are several things people can be saved from.
Death is the last enemy to be defeated.
The penalty of sin is death, and the free gift when received as Jesus says is freedom from death and no fear of punishment in this life or the next.
The power the devil has to deceive and to trick into sinning and harming others.
The doubts and fears that overwhelm much of the population - in Christ Jesus there is no longer condemnation, nor the doubts and fears of a condemned man, nor anxiety for the cares and worries that exist in the world.
The worry or concern about what other people think.
THe worry or concern about what God thinks.

So many things daily, to be set free from , potentially available freely in Christ Jesus and His Grace, God Willing.

Hawkins · Sep 18, 2023

nightmares said:
No

There is no justification whatsoever for keeping Satan alive

Admit you are wrong

In case you don't know how Law shall function. It works like this,

Law applies to everyone equally the same, including Satan. It allows everyone to behave to show who himself is. A Final Judgment will follow to either qualify you or disqualify from entering Heaven. It's like a promise from a sin-incompatible God. Those who passed the judgment of law is like God, who is completely sin-incompatble, gives out the promise that He will bear with you in eternity no matter what.

In contrary, if one (including Satan and such) failed the judgment of Law, it means God will not bear with him in the eternity we call Heave. He can't or incapable of living with God in such an eternity. So the justification is, well if you are willing to give up Jesus but insist on fallng for what Satan prepared for you, you are disqualified = God won't be able to bear with you in eternity.

That's the justification affecting the success of how a Heaven shall be built. In case you don't know. Law is such an open standard. If as you said to remove Satan in the middle, it only means God has to allow more unqualified humans into Heaven for Him to bear with in eternity. That's apparently not what God wanted, in terms of building a valid and lasting eternity known as Heaven (or New Heaven and New Earth).

Don't sound as if you know how to build such an eternity where angels and humans all live with a sin-incompatible God happily and forever.

That's the justification! In case you don't know!!! And admit that you are wrong!!!

honey badger · Sep 19, 2023

nightmares said:
Alternatively one can say that God/Jesus knew Satan would turn evil and entrap Adam/Eve and allowed it to happen because, er, we have not been told

knowledge comes by way of comparison ... in other words it takes two to tango ...

it is in this time/moment the law of life is being written in our hearts/minds ... not a law we adhere to as being something separate from us ... but a law of life we live by ... Jesus fulfilled the law by being it ...

the law is singular as it is eternal ( the 10 commandments being mans perception of Gods law ) ... when God spoke the law "thou shall not eat of it" He by doing so made a way for the serpent, seeing when a law is spoken the opposite to it is also ( a double edged sword that cuts both ways )

in short ... one has no concept of what up is unless there is a down to compare it with ...

Newway · Sep 19, 2023

Dave G. said:
Scripture speaks for itself. You must be reborn of the Spirit, otherwise known as born again. Then Jesus' atonement for sin is credited to your account. Without Him you will be judged purely by the Moral Law, which no one can satisfy but Jesus already did. He is our provision given to us by a loving Father. Jesus is the propitiation for our sin, He paid the price for us that we could in no way pay. Propitiation is to pay forward for our sins. Romans 3:23-24 and other places in the bible.

God is sovereign, He is the creator and has all power over all things. Man revolted, not so different than Satan and thus without Christ are like Satan till or unless the rebirth. Once accepting Christ from the heart, changing direction repenting from sin, documents are changed in heaven and you are written into the Lambs Book of Life. With your name found there you are not tossed into the lake of fire. It's not wise to face God with rebellion, it's called tempting Him. You're messing with someone so powerful there is nothing more powerful, so powerful He can speak and has spoken things into and or out of existence. Yet He loves us enough to send His own Son to the cross to die for our sins that we might be saved.

It takes faith to trust and believe what is written. But faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God,in Romans 10:17.
.

IM certainly trying to turn away from sin. I’ve been rebellious most of my life without realizing it, it stemmed from my own inner turmoil and loneliness. I’ve never been liked by people generally, I’m not intelligent, I suck at almost everything, I’m short, ugly l, have never liked myself etc. Have I tired to blame God? Yes, at times, I ask why me and then have turned to things like alcohol and sex, driving fast, thrill seeking, playing music, etc.

I’ve never understood how anything is fair and now after living a life in inner turmoil I will burn forever because I was rebellious. Why couldn’t I have been created with a different personality, different brain, different looks? People seem to be chosen in a sense and I worry I’m just fated for the bad place.

Aussie Pete · Sep 19, 2023

Newway said:
Something I’ve been confused about, it seems Jesus is here to save us from God? He is the only one who can send ppl to hell. I don’t get it. Or is it the devil? But God can control the devil? Help me make sense of this. Please.

Jesus came to save us from the consequences of sin. The fundamental problem is that sin kills us spiritually. That means eternal separation from God. The reality is that mankind is in hell right now. Everyone is born dead in trespass and sin. Jesus said, "I am come that they might have life......" (John 10:10). Spiritual death gives rise to countless problems:

1. Sickness and disease
2. Violence, murder, war and crime of all kinds
3. Poverty and injustice of all kinds
4. Failed relationships, both family and marriage
5. Despair - drug and alcohol abuse, depression, suicide, mental health problems
6. Immorality of all kinds
7. Insanity, such as imagining that you can choose your gender or identify as an animal. Or voting for Justin Trudeau.
8. Inability to cope with life in general. Taking a dog on a plane as a coping mechanism? Absurd.
9. Totalitarianism. Millions gave their lives to save us from despots. Now the world is increasingly autocratic.
10. Narcissism. People talk about their rights, but who is talking about responsibility?

In summary, Jesus came to save us from ourselves. We are the problem, Jesus is the Answer.

Dave G. · Sep 19, 2023

Newway said:
IM certainly trying to turn away from sin. I’ve been rebellious most of my life without realizing it, it stemmed from my own inner turmoil and loneliness. I’ve never been liked by people generally, I’m not intelligent, I suck at almost everything, I’m short, ugly l, have never liked myself etc. Have I tired to blame God? Yes, at times, I ask why me and then have turned to things like alcohol and sex, driving fast, thrill seeking, playing music, etc.

I’ve never understood how anything is fair and now after living a life in inner turmoil I will burn forever because I was rebellious. Why couldn’t I have been created with a different personality, different brain, different looks? People seem to be chosen in a sense and I worry I’m just fated for the bad place.

It's never too late to turn your life over to Jesus. You don't have to burn forever, in fact your hope is in Him and that He is the promise to eternal life. There are so many passages in scripture speaking of the blessed promises of Christ, it's not fair ( if you want to speak of fair) to derail yourself with all the negativity in your life. It doesn't have to be that way at all. Like all sinners who never accepted Him and end up in hell, they did it to themselves. God gave us the pathway, narrow that it be, to go to heaven not hell. And he wishes all to come. He doesn't see you as you see you but He does see your sin. And while He loves the sinner, He hates the sin. How much does He love you ? Enough that while still sinners He sent His Son to die for us all, that includes you. You don't have to be perfect to come to Christ, you need to believe with a grain of faith and a willingness to change. Why not change, I mean how's it all going for you now ? By change, I mean turn to Christ who sends you the Holy Spirit. By Him you can break your sin. We already established you can't fulfill the moral laws of sin yourself. No one can.

Don't take this lightly, it's all real. I lived as you, one day I felt conviction of my sin and I came to Jesus completely broken, full of anxiety. I did the only thing I could do, turned to Jesus, in fact gave my life to Him since obviously I was doing lousy with it. Changes came fast and are still coming since 1979. He is for us not against us but He does allow trials in our lives. Our spirits undergo perfection in Him by faith but the body or flesh must eventually die. But you can now view yourself as a child of God, joint heir with Jesus Christ !

Romans 8:17
AMP
And if [we are His] children, [then we are His] heirs also: heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [sharing His spiritual blessing and inheritance], if indeed we share in His suffering so that we may also share in His glory.

Newway · Sep 19, 2023

Dave G. said:
It's never too late to turn your life over to Jesus. You don't have to burn forever, in fact your hope is in Him and that He is the promise to eternal life. There are so many passages in scripture speaking of the blessed promises of Christ, it's not fair ( if you want to speak of fair) to derail yourself with all the negativity in your life. It doesn't have to be that way at all. Like all sinners who never accepted Him and end up in hell, they did it to themselves. God gave us the pathway, narrow that it be, to go to heaven not hell. And he wishes all to come. He doesn't see you as you see you but He does see your sin. And while He loves the sinner, He hates the sin. How much does He love you ? Enough that while still sinners He sent His Son to die for us all, that includes you. You don't have to be perfect to come to Christ, you need to believe with a grain of faith and a willingness to change. Why not change, I mean how's it all going for you now ? By change, I mean turn to Christ who sends you the Holy Spirit. By Him you can break your sin. We already established you can't fulfill the moral laws of sin yourself. No one can.

Don't take this lightly, it's all real. I lived as you, one day I felt conviction of my sin and I came to Jesus completely broken, full of anxiety. I did the only thing I could do, turned to Jesus, in fact gave my life to Him since obviously I was doing lousy with it. Changes came fast and are still coming since 1979. He is for us not against us but He does allow trials in our lives. Our spirits undergo perfection in Him by faith but the body or flesh must eventually die. But you can now view yourself as a child of God, joint heir with Jesus Christ !

Romans 8:17
AMP
And if [we are His] children, [then we are His] heirs also: heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [sharing His spiritual blessing and inheritance], if indeed we share in His suffering so that we may also share in His glory.

I’ve turned from most sins, I don’t drink to get drunk anymore, don’t go out, dont swear, gossip etc. The only big sin that I’m aware of is having sex with my gf. She is my only friend, I’ll never meet another person, so it’s really hard to let go.

Aaron112 · Sep 19, 2023

Newway said:
I’ve turned from most sins, I don’t drink to get drunk anymore, don’t go out, dont swear, gossip etc. The only big sin that I’m aware of is having sex with my gf. She is my only friend, I’ll never meet another person, so it’s really hard to let go.

God has, or may have, a Plan for your life (and for hers, for everyone, everywhere),
and
the point might be
to not change anything today,
except the government of your own life -
if God wants a change, and you give your life to Him,
since He Cares and Knows ,
He Will let you know .... like no one else can ...

Dave G. · Sep 19, 2023

Newway said:
I’ve turned from most sins, I don’t drink to get drunk anymore, don’t go out, dont swear, gossip etc. The only big sin that I’m aware of is having sex with my gf. She is my only friend, I’ll never meet another person, so it’s really hard to let go.

The point of the matter is you're guilty of every single sin you ever committed and you can not atone for them on your own if you lived 1000 years. They would just keep compiling. You need Christ's righteousness, then the Father will see your sins no more. But rather the righteousness of His Son in you. If judged by the moral law we come up short but with Christ the list at the bottom says Paid In Full. This is by the atoning blood of Christ.

Your own efforts are as filthy rags in God's eyes. I'll say it one more time: you must be born again.

John 3:1-3

English Standard Version

You Must Be Born Again

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

rstrats · Sep 23, 2023

Ivan Hlavanda said:
. So either God punishes you the sinner, and it will be just, or God punishes someone who is without sin, a perfect substitute and payment for debt of sin.

What is the payment debt owed for sinning?

rstrats · Sep 23, 2023

ViaCrucis said:
God doesn't send us to hell.

Perhaps not hell, but Revelation 20:15 does say that He will be casting people into the lake of fire.

What is Jesus Saving us from ?

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John 3:1-3​

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You Must Be Born Again​

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John 3:1-3

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You Must Be Born Again