- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Overview of Revelation. (6 - 19)
- Thread starter Marilyn C
- Start date
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
Hi Marilyn,
Your graphic is blurry.
To make my charts and illustrations I use Corel Paintshop Pro. It costs between $50-$70 from places like Amazon. You can buy the download version and have it instantaneously.
Once you get used to the basics, which is not that hard, you can make charts which is nothing more than a bunch of rectangular "cutouts" colored and arranged together. Even the connecting lines are rectangular "cutouts" that you can squeeze thin to make them look like a line. You can stretch cutouts longer or shorter. Move them around.
If you get that program, I can help you with the basics.
Your graphic is blurry.
To make my charts and illustrations I use Corel Paintshop Pro. It costs between $50-$70 from places like Amazon. You can buy the download version and have it instantaneously.
Once you get used to the basics, which is not that hard, you can make charts which is nothing more than a bunch of rectangular "cutouts" colored and arranged together. Even the connecting lines are rectangular "cutouts" that you can squeeze thin to make them look like a line. You can stretch cutouts longer or shorter. Move them around.
If you get that program, I can help you with the basics.
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Hi Douggg,
That is so kind of you, and very thoughtful. From one chart maker to another. I scanned a better chart, so how is that?
Marilyn.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
Hi Marilyn,
When we take note of all that information what are we to do with it ?
Back in high school, in math class, they presented math not as words, i.e as sentences such as - two plus three equals five divided by five equals one. Instead, digits and symbols are used because that language is easier to convey math.
Similarly, numbers in bible prophecy, especially when many are given regarding certain events - words alone are inadequate to convey comprehensive bible prophecy. Charts are better for that purpose.
But to make charts, it requires the means in the form of some graphics (don't let the word graphics intimidate you) program. And after a person gets acclimated to the program, then it becomes the same processes over and over - make cutouts, move them around, type in some text.
When we take note of all that information what are we to do with it ?
Back in high school, in math class, they presented math not as words, i.e as sentences such as - two plus three equals five divided by five equals one. Instead, digits and symbols are used because that language is easier to convey math.
Similarly, numbers in bible prophecy, especially when many are given regarding certain events - words alone are inadequate to convey comprehensive bible prophecy. Charts are better for that purpose.
But to make charts, it requires the means in the form of some graphics (don't let the word graphics intimidate you) program. And after a person gets acclimated to the program, then it becomes the same processes over and over - make cutouts, move them around, type in some text.
Upvote
0
3 Resurrections
That's 666 YEARS, folks
- Aug 21, 2021
- 1,932
- 307
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
If words alone are "inadequate to convey comprehensive bible prophecy", then why were charts not the tool Christ recommended for understanding? "Whoso READETH let him understand" was Christ's recommended tool in Matthew 24:15. That first-century generation to whom Christ was speaking had no charts or graphics, yet Christ said that a reading of Daniel was sufficient for them to understand.
I'm not saying that employing charts and graphics is a wrong method. However, when you say that charts and graphics are superior to words alone, then by implication you are saying that our generation is far more stupid than the first-century generation, and requires more help than the written words of Daniel that God provided and preserved for us.
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
The charts and graphics are based on words, text, of the bible.
Regarding the first-century generation and our generation, there is no difference in intellectual capability. However, if you read Daniel 12:8-10, the prophecies in Daniel 12 are sealed both in the fulfillment and the understanding until the time of the end.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We should all pray for wisdom in our desire to understand the prophecies.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
That's like asking why did not Jesus recommend that we communicate with each other over the internet.
I am not telling anyone what to do. But if a person wants to comprehend, meditate on about what God said directly Himself and through the prophets, then communicate with others how all the events of the time of the end prophecies fit together - use a graphics program, learn the basic fundamentals of using it, and get started.
I will admit it takes some effort.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I am using my new computer and its programs that have good capabilities for graphics. Any old diagrams I scan these and they seem to come up very good. I appreciate you pointing out the other chart as it was an old photocopy from my old computer, (1990`s).
If I need more I will certainly look into Corel for I have heard before that it is very good.
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
So, what extra do you think my chart should say or not have included.
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
The title - OVERVIEW OF THE TRIBULATION (by chapters)
"The Tribulation" I don't get it. Where is the term "The Tribulation" coming from ?
There is a book in the bible called Revelation. And within Revelation, a sealed book that Jesus took from the hand of God the Father in Revelation 5:7.
It was not a scroll, nor called a "legal document"
_________________________________________________________________________
Marilyn, I think if you need to work on the visual presentation, i.e. arrangement of chapter blocks in your organizational chart to all align with the left margin. Also re-title your organizational chart - to something like "Overview, Revelation 6-19".
Overview, Revelation 6-19
chapter 6-7
chapter 8-9
chapter 10-13
chapter 14-16
chapter 17-18
chapter 19
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Thank you Douggg, for taking the time to give me some suggestions. My thoughts -
Tribulation - Matt. 24: 29.
The sealed book, or scroll, Gk. `biblion` - a roll, book, scroll, writing.
It is sealed with seven seals. Seven meaning complete. God is the legal authority to whatever is written there. Thus, it is a legal document.
The chapters are in relation to the timing in the trib.
Yes, I do think the title could do with some more work.
Marilyn.
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
If you retitle to "Overview, Revelation 6-19", everyone is going to know what you are talking about and there won't be any controversy like "the tribulation".
Matthew 24:29 is "the tribulation of those days" not just "the tribulation". The tribulation of those days begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is standing in the holy place, Matthew 24:15.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Thank you very much for taking the time to help me, Douggg. That is very gracious of you.
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Note: I personally didn`t write the information in this diagram, my former teacher did. I just put it together on the computer as a chart.
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 8,592
- 2,863
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Exactly. His obsession with charts and the way he acts like we can't understand the timing of things written about in scripture without charts is just utterly ridiculous. Such an insult to those in the past who didn't have the ability to create charts like we have now. Yet, somehow, they were able to understand things just fine without them.
Upvote
0
Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
- May 28, 2009
- 30,100
- 3,579
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
Daniel himself said he did not understand. The understanding does not take place until the time of end.
Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 5,201
- 651
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
That is a personal attack and should not be for, we are discussing scripture.
Upvote
0
3 Resurrections
That's 666 YEARS, folks
- Aug 21, 2021
- 1,932
- 307
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
The prophetic material that Daniel "sealed up" for the "time of the end" was UNSEALED in John's prophecies by the interpreting angel (those seals which were opened by Christ). Those to whom John was writing Revelation in the first century were able to understand those unsealed visions. They were the ones who were the "wise" who Daniel said would understand in those last days (Daniel 12:10).
Paul testified of those to whom he was writing that there actually was no need for him to write to them about the "times and the seasons". They "knew perfectly" about those things, which shows that they were some of those "wise" ones who Daniel said would understand in those latter days.
As for the charts and graphic tools, there are those whose learning style gravitates toward using visual aids. Whatever works best for each person is an acceptable tool that can lead to understanding. But not all individuals are visual learners, so we can't really say that one method is "superior" to another, any more than one person's learning style is "superior" to another's.
God for many centuries used oral memorization (such as the "song of Moses") to pass on knowledge about Himself to future generations. He also employed the pantomime of the religious rituals under the OC to teach later generations about representation, justification, and redemption of the unclean.
God in those last days spoke to men by "the WORD" who became flesh and lived among mankind and communicated with them face-to-face. In following generations, the preserved writings of scripture and individuals with the indwelling Holy Spirit became the means of spreading knowledge of the God of heaven. God's "toolbox" to expand the knowledge about Himself in this world is not limited, by any means.
Paul testified of those to whom he was writing that there actually was no need for him to write to them about the "times and the seasons". They "knew perfectly" about those things, which shows that they were some of those "wise" ones who Daniel said would understand in those latter days.
As for the charts and graphic tools, there are those whose learning style gravitates toward using visual aids. Whatever works best for each person is an acceptable tool that can lead to understanding. But not all individuals are visual learners, so we can't really say that one method is "superior" to another, any more than one person's learning style is "superior" to another's.
God for many centuries used oral memorization (such as the "song of Moses") to pass on knowledge about Himself to future generations. He also employed the pantomime of the religious rituals under the OC to teach later generations about representation, justification, and redemption of the unclean.
God in those last days spoke to men by "the WORD" who became flesh and lived among mankind and communicated with them face-to-face. In following generations, the preserved writings of scripture and individuals with the indwelling Holy Spirit became the means of spreading knowledge of the God of heaven. God's "toolbox" to expand the knowledge about Himself in this world is not limited, by any means.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
