Did Christ every command or request worship for himself?

Clare73

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So what you don't have are any clear declarations of Yeshua being God.
What you've presented here is all circumstantial.
Thy speech doth betray thee. . .

Only the unbelief of a non-Christian (post #15) views the word of God in Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14, post #79 as simply circumstantial.
 
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Lukaris

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Thy speech doth betray thee. . .

Only the unbelief of a non-Christian (post #15) views the word of God in Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14, post #79 as simply circumstantial.
Yes, I believe as Christians ( across the board here) we have given consistent understanding of our faith to this person. The reply of one person to multiple people is always that our interpretation is subjective and that of an individual is objective.
 
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Clare73

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Yes, I believe as Christians ( across the board here) we have given consistent understanding of our faith to this person. The reply of one person to multiple people is always that our interpretation is subjective and that of an individual is objective.
Which is simply the non-Christian who is unable to believe the simple and plain text of Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14.
 
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Runningman

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Thy speech doth betray thee. . .

Only the unbelief of a non-Christian (post #15) views the word of God in Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14, post #79 as simply circumstantial.
I love John 1:1 and John 1:14.

It says the word is God and the word was with God then lo and behold the word became flesh as a begotten Son of God. Paraphrasing in my own words of course, needs to be said in case anyone feels the need to continue misrepresenting me (i.e., I am a Christian and I do believe the word of God)

Do you believe the only One in your Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that is called the true God is the Father? The Bible says that so I believe it.

How about the gospel? Do you believe the gospel contains "Believe Jesus is God to be saved?" I don't believe that because the gospel doesn't even hint at it. But who does it say to believe? The Son of God.
 
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Lukaris

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I love John 1:1 and John 1:14.

It says the word is God and the word was with God then lo and behold the word became flesh as a begotten Son of God. Paraphrasing in my own words of course, needs to be said in case anyone feels the need to continue misrepresenting me (i.e., I am a Christian and I do believe the word of God)

Do you believe the only One in your Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that is called the true God is the Father? The Bible says that so I believe it.

How about the gospel? Do you believe the gospel contains "Believe Jesus is God to be saved?" I don't believe that because the gospel doesn't even hint at it. But who does it say to believe? The Son of God.
If you are a Christian then why does your identification say “Unitarian”? You are not Christian and do not believe Jesus Christ is God with us( Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 )and you distort the Gospel of John 1:1 which clearly states the Word is eternal ( God the Son) and the Word was with God ( the Father) and that the Word ( God, the Son). The Word ( God, the Son) became flesh ( Jesus Christ who is God the Son) in John 1:14.

You disparage worship of Jesus Christ as God yet the angels were commanded by the Father to do just that per Hebrews 1:1-8 which a fulfillment of a psalm of David. You must disparage the women who worshiped the risen Lord ( Matthew 28:9, in the overall context of Matthew 28:1-9. I guess you also disparage Thomas ( the other apostles already knew) who knew the Lord Jesus Christ is God ( John 20:28 within the overall context of John 20:24-30).

Unitarianism is the pantheon not Christianity.


 
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Runningman

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If you are a Christian then why does your identification say “Unitarian”?
Like there is a Trinitarian view of God, there is a Unitarian view of God. There is even a Binitarian view of God.
You are not Christian and do not believe Jesus Christ is God with us( Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 )and you distort the Gospel of John 1:1 which clearly states the Word is eternal ( God the Son) and the Word was with God ( the Father) and that the Word ( God, the Son). The Word ( God, the Son) became flesh ( Jesus Christ who is God the Son) in John 1:14.
I genuinely don't know how you're seeing "Jesus Christ is God" anywhere in the Bible. I took a look at Isaiah 7 and it say's Immanuel is a human child that needed time to learn how to refuse evil and choose good. God is a human boy who needs time to learn to refuse evil? Where is the dual nature in that?

Isaiah 7:14-16
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. 15Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

and Matthew 1:23 just says the definition of the name Immanuel. It means that God is with us in this sense. God was in Yeshua:

John 14:11
11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
You disparage worship of Jesus Christ as God yet the angels were commanded by the Father to do just that per Hebrews 1:1-8 which a fulfillment of a psalm of David. You must disparage the women who worshiped the risen Lord ( Matthew 28:9, in the overall context of Matthew 28:1-9. I guess you also disparage Thomas ( the other apostles already knew) who knew the Lord Jesus Christ is God ( John 20:28 within the overall context of John 20:24-30).
I just follow what the Bible says. That's too bad you find fault with that. Nothing about a command for people to worship him. Doesn't that support my views and not yours?

Unitarianism is the pantheon not Christianity.


Unitarian Universalism is not what Unitarianism is. The names sounds similar, but I would be what is called a Biblical Unitarian -- meaning I believe what the Bible says about the Father being the one and only true God like Yeshua said. Unitarian Universalism is not Christianity though so that's accurate.
 
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Lukaris

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Like there is a Trinitarian view of God, there is a Unitarian view of God. There is even a Binitarian view of God.

I genuinely don't know how you're seeing "Jesus Christ is God" anywhere in the Bible. I took a look at Isaiah 7 and it say's Immanuel is a human child that needed time to learn how to refuse evil and choose good. God is a human boy who needs time to learn to refuse evil? Where is the dual nature in that?

Isaiah 7:14-16
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. 15Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.

and Matthew 1:23 just says the definition of the name Immanuel. It means that God is with us in this sense. God was in Yeshua:

John 14:11
11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

I just follow what the Bible says. That's too bad you find fault with that. Nothing about a command for people to worship him. Doesn't that support my views and not yours?


Unitarian Universalism is not what Unitarianism is. The names sounds similar, but I would be what is called a Biblical Unitarian -- meaning I believe what the Bible says about the Father being the one and only true God like Yeshua said. Unitarian Universalism is not Christianity though so that's accurate.
I like how you weave around solid Biblical truths; for ex. Immanuel which specifically means God with us ( not merely God is with us) exclusively in the Person of Jesus Christ previously prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 & fulfilled in Matthew 1:23. The Bible is silent on the Lord’s childhood and if Isaiah 7:14-16 refers to it, so what? Btw, your definition of Immanuel is the same as the Watchtower definition.


Then you can’t explain why righteous people like Mary Magdalene ( Matthew 28:9) and Thomas worshiped Jesus Christ and that Thomas clearly said, “my Lord and my God” ( John 20:28). Are they violating the 2nd commandment?( Exodus 20:3-4, Deuteronomy 5:8-9).


“He is the Trinity-to wit, the Father and the Son begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the same Father, but one and the same Spirit of Father and Son.” St. Augustine in his book: The Enchiridion.
 
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Runningman

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I like how you weave around solid Biblical truths; for ex. Immanuel which specifically means God with us ( not merely God is with us) exclusively in the Person of Jesus Christ previously prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 & fulfilled in Matthew 1:23. The Bible is silent on the Lord’s childhood and if Isaiah 7:14-16 refers to it, so what? Btw, your definition of Immanuel is the same as the Watchtower definition.

Matthew 1:23 says the definition of the name Immanuel is "God with us." It doesn't say "Jesus is God." This isn't a JW teaching. This is literally what the Bible says.

Isaiah 7:14-16 referring to his child hood doesn't help your premise that he's God.

Then you can’t explain why righteous people like Mary Magdalene ( Matthew 28:9) and Thomas worshiped Jesus Christ and that Thomas clearly said, “my Lord and my God” ( John 20:28). Are they violating the 2nd commandment?( Exodus 20:3-4, Deuteronomy 5:8-9).
I am not the judge of such things, but the Bible is explicit about not worshipping people. See Paul's rebuke or worshipping people in Romans 1:23

Thomas doesn't say to Yeshua "You are God." Most likely it was that Thomas was calling on the Father in heaven since that's who Yeshua taught Thomas who God is.

“He is the Trinity-to wit, the Father and the Son begotten of the Father, and the Holy Spirit proceeding from the same Father, but one and the same Spirit of Father and Son.” St. Augustine in his book: The Enchiridion.
Not according to Scripture. According to Paul, the Spirit of God and the spirit of Christ aren't even the same spirits.

Romans 8:9
9But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
 
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Clare73

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I love John 1:1 and John 1:14.

It says the word is God and the word was with God then lo and behold the word became flesh as a begotten Son of God.
Oops! . . .God became a Son. . .Now there are two who are God, Father and Son.
Paraphrasing in my own words of course, needs to be said in case anyone feels the need to continue misrepresenting me (i.e., I am a Christian and I do believe the word of God)

Do you believe the only One in your Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit that is called the true God is the Father? The Bible says that so I believe it.
I believe you are setting Scripture (which declares that Jesus is God, Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14) against itself instead of harmonizing/reconciling it with/to itself.
How about the gospel? Do you believe the gospel contains "Believe Jesus is God to be saved?"
If you can present where that is stated, I will believe it.
I don't believe that because the gospel doesn't even hint at it. But who does it say to believe? The Son of God.
Actually, it says to believe in and trust on the person and atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice (justification; i.e., forensical righteousness).
 
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Runningman

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Oops! . . .God became a Son. . .Now there are two who are God, Father and Son.
A son begotten by a father doesn’t mean the father becomes his own son. I’m sorry, that doesn’t make any sense.

I believe you are setting Scripture (which declares that Jesus is God, Jn 1:1, Jn 1:14) against itself instead of harmonizing/reconciling it with/to itself.
John 1:1 says the word is God. The word “word” is a Greek word logos. It doesn’t mean Son, Jesus, or Messiah. So what is something someone is, something that’s with them, and something someone has? A spirit. God is a Spirit. John 1 is a parallel to Genesis 1 where God creates using His words and Spirit.

Actually, it says to believe in and trust on the person and atoning work ( blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice (justification; i.e., forensical righteousness).

Romans 3:25 says God presented Yeshua as a sacrifice.
 
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Clare73

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A son begotten by a father doesn’t mean the father becomes his own son. I’m sorry, that doesn’t make any sense.
Agreed. . .but it does mean that the son is of the same nature as the Father; i.e., divine. . .and that makes him God.
John 1:1 says the word is God. The word “word” is a Greek word logos. It doesn’t mean Son, Jesus, or Messiah.
So who is this logos who is God and became flesh and dwelt among us, whose glory John personally saw?
So what is something someone is, something that’s with them, and something someone has?
Some work in ontology seems to be called for.
A spirit. God is a Spirit. John 1 is a parallel to Genesis 1 where God creates using His words and Spirit.
Previously addressed (post #67). . ."Word" in Jn 1:1 does not mean spoken word.
Romans 3:25 says God presented Yeshua as a sacrifice.
And "the rest of the story"?

I see why you have so much trouble understanding the Scriptures. . .you will never understand them with those blinders blotting out its words; e.g., "through faith in his blood."
 
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Lukaris

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A son begotten by a father doesn’t mean the father becomes his own son. I’m sorry, that doesn’t make any sense.


John 1:1 says the word is God. The word “word” is a Greek word logos. It doesn’t mean Son, Jesus, or Messiah. So what is something someone is, something that’s with them, and something someone has? A spirit. God is a Spirit. John 1 is a parallel to Genesis 1 where God creates using His words and Spirit.



Romans 3:25 says God presented Yeshua as a sacrifice.
Remove the blinders from your eyes while you can and read John 9:1-41 & in particular read John 9:38. Do not say those who worship Jesus Christ do not worship God. Do not play games with accounts of Thomas ( John 20:24-31), Mary Magdalene etc.( Matthew 28:9 per Matthew 28:1-9) etc. This is not a game.
 
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Clare73

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Remove the blinders from your eyes while you can and read John 9:1-41 & in particular read John 9:38. Do not say those who worship Jesus Christ do not worship God. Do not play games with accounts of Thomas ( John 20:24-31), Mary Magdalene etc.( Matthew 28:9 per Matthew 28:1-9) etc. This is not a game.
And all God's people said, "AMEN!"

Not to mention that playing games here are intellectual dishonesty.
 
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Runningman

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Remove the blinders from your eyes while you can and read John 9:1-41 & in particular read John 9:38. Do not say those who worship Jesus Christ do not worship God.
They aren't worshipping God when they worshipped Yeshua.

The verse you quoted Yeshua identified himself as the Son of Man. God isn't the Son of Man.

John 9
35When Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, He found the man and said, “Do you believe in the Son of Manb?”
36“Who is He, Sir?” he replied. “Tell me so that I may believe in Him.”
37“You have already seen Him,” Jesus answered. “He is the One speaking with you.”

Do not play games with accounts of Thomas ( John 20:24-31), Mary Magdalene etc.( Matthew 28:9 per Matthew 28:1-9) etc. This is not a game.
I agree this is not a game. That's exactly why I am trying to help you know who God is exactly. Yeshua is God's Son, the Messiah, the Son of Man, but not God. I do believe God thinks the Trinitarian church is precious and He does love you, but you need to know who God is. This isn't the time to keep denying it.
 
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Runningman

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Agreed. . .but it does mean that the son is of the same nature as the Father; i.e., divine. . .and that makes him God.

So who is this logos who is God and became flesh and dwelt among us, whose glory John personally saw?

Some work in ontology seems to be called for.

Previously addressed (post #67). . ."Word" in Jn 1:1 does not mean spoken word.

And "the rest of the story"?

I see why you have so much trouble understanding the Scriptures. . .you will never understand them with those blinders blotting out its words; e.g., "through faith in his blood."
John 1:1-14 basically says God created Yeshua with words. It says he became flesh as of the only begotten of the Father. Those who are begotten haven't existed eternally, i.e., they aren't God.
 
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Clare73

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John 1:1-14 basically says God created Yeshua with words.
Grammatically it says no such thing.
It says he became flesh as of the only begotten of the Father. Those who are begotten haven't existed eternally, i.e., they aren't God.
It's not complicated. . .

You simply don't believe Jn 1:1: "the Word was God.

The NT calls that unbelief.
 
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Runningman

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Grammatically it says no such thing.
It's not complicated. . .

You simply don't believe Jn 1:1: "the Word was God.

The NT calls that unbelief.
I believe God is the word. The entirely different person known as the Son isn't even mentioned until John 1:14 because that's when he was begotten after God's word became flesh. I agree it's not complicated at all.

so let's settle it then. You have nothing in the Bible that says Yeshua/Jesus, the Son, the Messiah is the Word? Okay, well I have a verse that says God is the Word. I think since you are saying the Word is Jesus and the Bible doesn't say that then you don't have a valid point. the Word is God. God and Christ are a different person throughout the Old and New Testament.
 
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Clare73

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The entirely different person known as
the Son isn't even mentioned until John 1:14 because that's when he was begotten after God's word became flesh.
Unbelief converses in bad faith. . .
I believe God is the word.
You believe the Word is God (Jn 1:1), then also believe the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jn 1:14) and dwelt among us.
 
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Runningman

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Unbelief converses in bad faith. . .

You believe the Word is God (Jn 1:1), then also believe the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jn 1:14) and dwelt among us.

John 1:14 clearly says he was begotten on the Father. Don't forget that the word is God and that humans aren't God. It's referring to Yeshua being produced by God. That's all it says.
 
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Clare73

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John 1:14 clearly says he was begotten on the Father. Don't forget that the word is God and that humans aren't God. It's referring to Yeshua being produced by God. That's all it says.
Unbelief converses in bad faith. . .

You believe the Word is God (Jn 1:1), then also believe the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jn 1:14) and dwelt among us.
 
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