Did Christ every command or request worship for himself?

[Runningman]

In exploring Christianity, Christ never commanded or requested worship for himself. While there are examples of people bowing down before Christ, these are descriptive rather than prescriptive examples.

One example is Matthew 2:2 when three foreigners from the east came and worshipped Christ when he was born and brought gifts.

Another example is Matthew 14:33 where Christ was given unsolicited worship in regards to being God's Son.

One more example is Hebrews 1:6 when God specifically directed angels to worship His Son, but He didn't extend this command to people.

When Christ spoke on the matter of worship, he prescribed worship to his God and Father, making worship of God the Father the prescribed Biblical example for people to follow:

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[Soyeong]

In exploring Christianity, Christ never commanded or requested worship for himself. While there are examples of people bowing down before Christ, these are descriptive rather than prescriptive examples.

One example is Matthew 2:2 when three foreigners from the east came and worshipped Christ when he was born and brought gifts.

Another example is Matthew 14:33 where Christ was given unsolicited worship in regards to being God's Son.

One more example is Hebrews 1:6 when God specifically directed angels to worship His Son, but He didn't extend this command to people.

When Christ spoke on the matter of worship, he prescribed worship to his God and Father, making worship of God the Father the prescribed Biblical example for people to follow:

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

The Son is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), and the problem with idolatry is that it is worshiping a misrepresentation of God, so if Jesus were anything less than that, then worshiping him would have been idolatry, but because he is who we see when we look at the Father, then worshipping him is the same as worshipping the Father. In Luke 4:7-8, Satan wanted Jesus to worship him, but Jesus replied by saying that it is written to worship the Lord your God and to serve him only. In Luke 24:52, he used the same Greek word to say that they worshipped Jesus, and these are the only two times in the book of Luke that he used that word, so he knew what he was stating by making that association.

 

[HTacianas]

In exploring Christianity, Christ never commanded or requested worship for himself. While there are examples of people bowing down before Christ, these are descriptive rather than prescriptive examples.

One example is Matthew 2:2 when three foreigners from the east came and worshipped Christ when he was born and brought gifts.

Another example is Matthew 14:33 where Christ was given unsolicited worship in regards to being God's Son.

One more example is Hebrews 1:6 when God specifically directed angels to worship His Son, but He didn't extend this command to people.

When Christ spoke on the matter of worship, he prescribed worship to his God and Father, making worship of God the Father the prescribed Biblical example for people to follow:

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

If you look closely you'll see that Jesus never demanded anything of anyone. And neither did he tell anyone who he was. Notice what he said to his disciples:

Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven..

He went on:

Mat 16:20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

He left it to the individual to both recognize him and worship him, "for flesh and blood has not revealed this ... but My Father who is in heaven".

 

[Clare73]

If you look closely you'll see that Jesus never demanded anything of anyone. And neither did he tell anyone who he was. Notice what he said to his disciples:

Also if you look closely you will see:

1) Jesus receiving worship from angels (Heb 1:6),
2) Jesus accepting worship from men (Mt 2:2, 11, 14:33, 28:9, 17, Lk 24:52, Jn 9:38, 20:28-29) and prophesied in Da 7:13-14, all without correction or reprimand (as in Mt 4:10, Ac 10:25-26, 14:14-15, Rev 22:9), and
3) Jesus prescribing worship of himself (Jn 5:23, 14:1) just as it is of God; i.e.,

Jesus both accepting and prescribing worship of himself as God, treating it as a proper expression of faith, because he is God (Jn 1:1) who became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14).

Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven..

He went on:

Mat 16:20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

He left it to the individual to both recognize him and worship him, "for flesh and blood has not revealed this ... but My Father who is in heaven".

 

[Runningman]

If you look closely you'll see that Jesus never demanded anything of anyone. And neither did he tell anyone who he was. Notice what he said to his disciples:

Mat 16:15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven..

He went on:

Mat 16:20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Amen. The answer about who Yeshua is, revealed by the God the Father in heaven, is that he is the Son of God. That's the only answer we should give if he were standing here now asking us who he is.

 

[Clare73]

He left it to the individual to both recognize him and worship him, "for flesh and blood has not revealed this ... but My Father who is in heaven".

Yes, he accepted worship from men which is due only to God (Mt 2:2, 11, 14:33, 28:9, 17, Lk 24:52, Jn 9:38, 20:28-29), which worship of him is prophesied in Da 7:13-14, and all without correction or reprimand (as in Mt 4:10, Ac 10:25-26, 14:14-15, Rev 22:9), because he was God (Jn 1:1), and it was due him.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, he accepted worship from men which is due only to God (Mt 2:2, 11, 14:33, 28:9, 17, Lk 24:52, Jn 9:38, 20:28-29), which worship of him is prophesied in Da 7:13-14, and all without correction or reprimand (as in Mt 4:10, Ac 10:25-26, 14:14-15, Rev 22:9), because he was God (Jn 1:1), and it was due him.

Yeshua wasn't really one to run around condemning people if they did something. He didn't even defend himself when they were crucifying him, but rather prayed to his God and Father to forgive them. On that note, no comment from Yeshua isn't a confirmation of approval, especially when he explicitly taught on the matter of worship to be directed toward his Father.

That being said, the standing command for worship is to worship only God the Father because He is God. Yeshua never requested, asked, commanded, or even hinted at wanting worship for himself. Whenever he received worship it always says he received unsolicited worship on the basis of being the Son of God.

Christ prescribed worship to his Father and not himself:

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[Clare73]

Yeshua wasn't really one to run around condemning people if they did something. He didn't even defend himself when they were crucifying him, but rather prayed to his God and Father to forgive them. On that note, no comment from Yeshua isn't a confirmation of approval, especially when he explicitly taught on the matter of worship to be directed toward his Father.
That being said, the standing command for worship is to worship only God the Father because He is God. Yeshua never requested, asked, commanded, or even hinted at wanting worship for himself. Whenever he received worship it always says he received unsolicited worship on the basis of being the Son of God.
Christ prescribed worship to his Father and not himself:
John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

"This forum is for non-believers seeking to know about Christianity. This forum is NOT for Apologetics or debates."

 

[Runningman]

"This forum is for non-believers seeking to know about Christianity. This forum is NOT for Apologetics or debates."

I’m not debating. People can read what I wrote and learn about Christianity from it.

 

[Sketcher]

In exploring Christianity, Christ never commanded or requested worship for himself. While there are examples of people bowing down before Christ, these are descriptive rather than prescriptive examples.

But Jesus accepted it every time. Contrast this with how the angel reacted to John's attempt to worship him in Revelation 22:8-9:

I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."​

If worshiping Jesus had been inappropriate, he would have reacted similarly, or would have been sinning. Because Jesus never sinned, the worship was appropriate.

 

[Runningman]

But Jesus accepted it every time. Contrast this with how the angel reacted to John's attempt to worship him in Revelation 22:8-9:

I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."​

If worshiping Jesus had been inappropriate, he would have reacted similarly, or would have been sinning. Because Jesus never sinned, the worship was appropriate.

I just go with what’s commanded and don’t try to add extra things or make any assumptions. Obeying God the Father is a requirement after all. He never commanded humans to worship the Son. Just how it is. God bless.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"All Original Posts (OPs) -- the posts that start a new thread -- must contain an identifiable question or concern about the Christian faith. Questions and statements that are either direct flames or imply a flame against Christianity, Christians, or any other group are inappropriate to this site, may be subject to staff action."

"All replies in this forum must be in accordance with the CF Statement of Faith (SoF). This means that your replies cannot disagree with the SoF. As an example, you may not answer a seeker or new believer's question with a statement that God is not a Trinity, nor may you state that Jesus was merely a very good, human leader. All replies must help the questioner to understand orthodox Christian beliefs and practices, and the theology on which they are based."

Statement of Purpose - Exploring Christianity Statement of Purpose

Exploring Christianity Forum Statement of Purpose This is a forum where non-Christian Seekers are encouraged to ask questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept, and where Christian members (see Faith groups list) can enter into discussion with...

www.christianforums.com

CF Statement of Faith

www.christianforums.com

 

[Runningman]

"All Original Posts (OPs) -- the posts that start a new thread -- must contain an identifiable question or concern about the Christian faith. Questions and statements that are either direct flames or imply a flame against Christianity, Christians, or any other group are inappropriate to this site, may be subject to staff action."

"All replies in this forum must be in accordance with the CF Statement of Faith (SoF). This means that your replies cannot disagree with the SoF. As an example, you may not answer a seeker or new believer's question with a statement that God is not a Trinity, nor may you state that Jesus was merely a very good, human leader. All replies must help the questioner to understand orthodox Christian beliefs and practices, and the theology on which they are based."

Statement of Purpose - Exploring Christianity Statement of Purpose

Exploring Christianity Forum Statement of Purpose This is a forum where non-Christian Seekers are encouraged to ask questions about those aspects of the Christian faith which seem hard to understand or accept, and where Christian members (see Faith groups list) can enter into discussion with...

www.christianforums.com

CF Statement of Faith

www.christianforums.com

No.

If you'll actually read the CF Statement of Faith, it says "Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs."

The Outreach board isn't a Christian Only forum.

"Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums."

I am welcome here in this forum to post these threads, sorry, but that's the rules. The moderators have already spoke with me about my faith category and I was removed from the Christian Only board weeks ago.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No.

If you'll actually read the CF Statement of Faith, it says "Discussions in all "Christians Only" forums must be in alignment with Trinitarian beliefs."

The Outreach board isn't a Christian Only forum.

"Non-Trinitarianism may only be discussed in the Outreach category forums."

I am welcome here in this forum to post these threads, sorry, but that's the rules. The moderators have already spoke with me about my faith category and I was removed from the Christian Only board weeks ago.

What I quoted, and linked to, are the Exploring Christianity's statement of purpose. Which states, quite clearly, that threads must be questions asked by non-believers, and replies to those questions must come from Trinitarian Christians.

Since you are not asking a question as an unbeliever to be answered by Trinitarian Christians, you are simply promoting your own beliefs.

You'll notice that the Outreach section has a number of boards that are currently shut down. Yes, non-Trinitarian views can be expressed in the Outreach section; and I consider it unfortunate that a number of boards were shut down in which more lively debate and discussion on certain issues were possible.

But this particular board, Exploring Christianity, has an intended use and purpose. And frankly, I do not know how you anticipated your posting these threads to go, you are promoting your own views based on your Unitarian perspective. Who is supposed to respond?

With all due respect, I think you wanted a debate. That's not a bad thing. But this simply isn't the place for that.

I honestly don't know where debate on these things can happen on CF anymore, since the boards where such debate took place were shut down several years ago.

I'm all for debate, and I am in favor of debating--and defending--my own Trinitarian views. But this simply isn't the place for that.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Runningman]

What I quoted, and linked to, are the Exploring Christianity's statement of purpose. Which states, quite clearly, that threads must be questions asked by non-believers, and replies to those questions must come from Trinitarian Christians.

This site has labeled me a non-Christian therefore, by their definition, they consider me a non-believer. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. It’s right there in the rules. Furthermore, I did ask a question. You’ll find the subject of this thread is:

Did Christ every command or request worship for himself?​

Since you are not asking a question as an unbeliever to be answered by Trinitarian Christians, you are simply promoting your own beliefs.

I just pointed out this site doesn’t consider me a believer.

Yes, non-Trinitarian views can be expressed in the Outreach section;

Thank you for confirming that I am allowed to discuss it here.

But this particular board, Exploring Christianity, has an intended use and purpose. And frankly, I do not know how you anticipated your posting these threads to go, you are promoting your own views based on your Unitarian perspective. Who is supposed to respond?

Non-Trinitarianism can be discussed here. I’m just following the rules. Are you a moderator? If not, you should express your concerns with moderators. I have no say in the matter.

With all due respect, I think you wanted a debate. That's not a bad thing. But this simply isn't the place for that.

I don’t want to debate.

I honestly don't know where debate on these things can happen on CF anymore, since the boards where such debate took place were shut down several years ago.

I’m banned from most of this message board. You can direct message me if you wish.

I'm all for debate, and I am in favor of debating--and defending--my own Trinitarian views. But this simply isn't the place for that.

-CryptoLutheran

We aren’t allowed to debate in this thread, I agree.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This site has labeled me a non-Christian therefore, by their definition, they consider me a non-believer. Of course nothing could be further from the truth. It’s right there in the rules. Furthermore, I did ask a question. You’ll find the subject of this thread is:

Did Christ every command or request worship for himself?​

I just pointed out this site doesn’t consider me a believer.


Thank you for confirming that I am allowed to discuss it here.

Non-Trinitarianism can be discussed here. I’m just following the rules. Are you a moderator? If not, you should express your concerns with moderators. I have no say in the matter.

I don’t want to debate.

I’m banned from most of this message board. You can direct message me if you wish.

We aren’t allowed to debate in this thread, I agree.

Well in that case, the answer to your question is yes. Christ did.

As the Son is Himself very and truly God, one in Being with the Father, then we can look at, for example, where He says, "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) and "I am YHWH, there is no other; there is no other god except Me" (Isaiah 45:5).

As Christians we confess the following, "We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Being." Since the Being, the Godhead, of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, same, and indivisible; all that applies to the Father pertaining to His Eternal Deity applies also to the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore when He says He alone is God, to have no other gods, to worship none other than Himself, etc it is the One Undivided Trinity; and so we worship and adore Jesus Christ, the Divine and Eternal Logos, God of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, begotten not made as He Himself is YHWH, who has said, "Hear O Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is one."

And so we worship the Undivided and Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Being.

If Jesus is God (and He is) then we simply can look to see where in Scripture God says He alone is worthy of worship.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Runningman]

Well in that case, the answer to your question is yes. Christ did.

As the Son is Himself very and truly God, one in Being with the Father, then we can look at, for example, where He says, "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) and "I am YHWH, there is no other; there is no other god except Me" (Isaiah 45:5).

As Christians we confess the following, "We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Being." Since the Being, the Godhead, of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, same, and indivisible; all that applies to the Father pertaining to His Eternal Deity applies also to the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore when He says He alone is God, to have no other gods, to worship none other than Himself, etc it is the One Undivided Trinity; and so we worship and adore Jesus Christ, the Divine and Eternal Logos, God of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, begotten not made as He Himself is YHWH, who has said, "Hear O Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is one."

And so we worship the Undivided and Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Being.

If Jesus is God (and He is) then we simply can look to see where in Scripture God says He alone is worthy of worship.

-CryptoLutheran

There are no verses, commands, directives, etc given to people that say to worship Yeshua, the Son, the Messiah, etc but there is proof God the Father is seeking worship. Yeshua directed worship to his Father.

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[Clare73]

There are no verses, commands, directives, etc given to people that say to worship Yeshua, the Son, the Messiah,

The Son is to be honored as the Father is honored (Jn 5:23). . .how is the Father honored?

etc but there is proof God the Father is seeking worship. Yeshua directed worship to his Father.

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[ViaCrucis]

There are no verses, commands, directives, etc given to people that say to worship Yeshua, the Son, the Messiah, etc but there is proof God the Father is seeking worship. Yeshua directed worship to his Father.

John 4:23-24
23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

I thought we weren't debating? You did say that you weren't here to debate, but to ask a question right?

Well I offered an answer to that question. Since the Son is consubstantial with the Father, then the Son is to be worshiped as true and very God. If you would be interested in why I believe this to be the case, then I would happily provide answer as to why I affirm the consubstantiality of the Son with the Father.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Runningman]

I thought we weren't debating? You did say that you weren't here to debate, but to ask a question right?

Well I offered an answer to that question. Since the Son is consubstantial with the Father, then the Son is to be worshiped as true and very God. If you would be interested in why I believe this to be the case, then I would happily provide answer as to why I affirm the consubstantiality of the Son with the Father.

-CryptoLutheran

Forget it. let's not discuss it then if you consider it debating to answer you.