Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

Ana the Ist

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So when making a power play is it advantageous to play the race card even though all are human?

Racism doesn't have a great track history. That said...sure...it can work...but you'd need to either end democracy or quickly become the majority or the obvious will result.

Ask yourself how many lgbtq black women can get elected president by complaining about being "oppressed" by whiteness before even the dumbest amongst us begins to say...

"Heyyyyy....wait a second...."
 
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Hazelelponi

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So when making a power play is it advantageous to play the race card even though all are human?

Power plays are all about upsetting the system that is in place, destabilizing it enough so that you can conquer it and then control it.

So yes, playing the race card is exactly the right move in a power play, because on some level everyone roots for the underdog and wants to see them actually succeed.

But you can't overplay your hand. As Ana said, at some point even the dumbest among us says "wait, what?"

In America, that overplay occurred years ago. I'm taking at least a decade.

Those trying to upset and destabilize American culture and governance in order to take it over simply haven't caught up yet, or intended this. I was writing articles about the race war our media and politicians were trying to foment in 2010, and what happened? What has now been coined, quite sarcastically, the "summer of love" with BLM, an organization that didn't even exist when I began writing about a coming race war.

How did I know what was coming? Humans are very predictable, and the hand was being overplayed because at first it worked very well, so they idiotically thought their hand could be relied upon indefinitely or something.

Civil war will come next if the nonsense doesn't stop, that's been my prediction for a while now, but I now believe that is the goal and we should all be wary of playing into the trap.

In the end, we either start voting for all of us as Americans, or we will be handing over a nation that is unrecognizable, and unlivable to our progeny.
 
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Diamond7

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I'm unaware of Chinese being
racist against ourselves.
The Chinese are perhaps the most racist of them all. I remember in Hong Kong it was not unusual for a bus to drive past me at a bus stop. Sometimes they will only stop for Chinese people. 90% are Han Chinese and they do not marry outside of their ethnic group. Inner racial marriage is rare in China. Chinese women may date outside of their race or ethnic group. But they seldom get married and if they do, they leave China to live in another country.

Although Chinese men do not like divorced women. So they can marry pretty much whoever they want. Even though there is a radical shortage of women in China.
 
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Diamond7

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quickly become the majority or the obvious will result.
America is rapidly becoming one-third black, one-third Hispanic and one-third white. Many cities in American have a majority of Blacks. So they control the elections and the police. Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore, Atlanta and so on have a majority of Black people. Chicago tried to defund the police. That did not work out so they booted their mayor out and now they want to support a mayor who will provide some police protection.

Incumbent Lori Lightfoot ran for a second term in office, but conceded after ongoing vote counts showed she would likely finish in third place. The runoff will be between former CEO of Chicago Public Schools Paul Vallas and Cook County Commissioner Brandon Johnson.

Now they have to vote for a strong government or a strong school system. I wonder what they will do.
 
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Ana the Ist

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America is rapidly becoming one-third black, one-third Hispanic and one-third white.

Should current trends continue then like a decade after I'm probably dead, whites will be a minority population, but they'll still be the largest minority population.

I don't know how young you are, but this won't pass in your lifetime.




Many cities in American have a majority of Blacks.

I don't know any offhand. Atlanta maybe?


So they control the elections and the police. Detroit,

You're correct on this one.




Wrong on this one.


Cleveland,

Correct on this one.


Baltimore,

Correct on this one.


Correct on this...but surprisingly, not by the majority I expected. Something about Atlanta...

Now that I think more about it, I think maybe DC is majority black too.

and so on have a majority of Black people. Chicago tried to defund the police. That did not work out so they booted their mayor out and now they want to support a mayor who will provide some police protection.

It was never a good idea. Even those who imagined something else...it's very much cart before horse thinking.

Incumbent Lori Lightfoot ran for a second term in office, but conceded after ongoing vote counts showed she would likely finish in third place. The runoff will be between former CEO of Chicago Public Schools Paul Vallas and Cook County Commissioner Brandon Johnson.

It's majority white. It's kinda gross but the last election split almost exactly down racial lines.

Makes one wonder if this whole melting pot idea is just wishful thinking.




Now they have to vote for a strong government or a strong school system. I wonder what they will do.

Well first things first....they need to reempower the police. Children don't learn in a crime filled environment. Businesses close in a crime filled environment. Before anything else can hope to succeed....law and order must be applied.
 
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Diamond7

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whites will be a minority population
Six states majority-minority and 62 American cities. This generation is not producing enough children to take care of them in their old age.
Black_Americans_by_county.png
 
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timothyu

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In the end, we either start voting for all of us as Americans, or we will be handing over a nation that is unrecognizable, and unlivable to our progeny.
As we know, Corporatism absorbs or destroys competition. This is what we are seeing now as Corporatism has gone global and destabilization, formerly the tool of the military in other nations, is being used upon America itself. Corporatism and globalization have no national allegiance. The racism etc. we are seeing now is nothing but a tool to achieve their ends. People are gullible and would rather fight amongst themselves than look at the bigger picture that no longer involves national allegiance.
 
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RDKirk

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It’s not math, to be more precise. There’s nothing inherently wrong with such an exercise, it’s just not exactly third grade math class material.

It is inherently wrong because it's untrue.

It was true for my parents. It was even true for me when I was a kid.

It's not true today.
 
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Diamond7

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Correct on this...but surprisingly, not by the majority I expected.
There are areas in Atlanta that are 90% black.
Children don't learn in a crime filled environment.
It is difficult finding a good role model for inner-city children. My son has been offered many jobs as a coach because they have a lot of trouble finding the right people to do the job. Of course, it does not pay very much compared to what people can be making out in the private sector.

We had a band leader that ran into a problem with the board of education. He had no problem getting a job in a school district that would treat him right and show some respect and appreciation for him. We got rid of the people on the board that caused all the problems.

He was the one that taught my son how to take advantage of his minority status.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Nobody is culpable for what their ancestors did.

When people talk about systemic racism it has nothing to do with me, a white person, being guilty or morally culpable for what my ancestors did, nor that I bear guilt/responsibility for the systems in place which may unfairly advantage me over a non-white person.

Systemic problems require systemic solutions.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ana the Ist

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There are areas in Atlanta that are 90% black.

I've been to Cleveland more times than Atlanta and it didn't occur to me it was majority black lol. I suppose that's got more to do with the various districts and how they've reached the modern day. I don't think most people imagine "east Cleveland" as a dangerous place, but it certainly was when I left Ohio. It's not Gary, Indiana nor East St Louis...but you should definitely have your guard up there. Anything can happen.

It is difficult finding a good role model for inner-city children.

I didn't think of it like that but I understand. I was thinking of Baltimore and Chicago specifically and how quickly those children end up in gangs, get used by gangs, and end up in that dismal cycle.

My son has been offered many jobs as a coach because they have a lot of trouble finding the right people to do the job. Of course, it does not pay very much compared to what people can be making out in the private sector.

Coaching always seemed more like a passion project to me. Something done more for the experience than for profit. There's some comedian somewhere I'm reminded of...and I don't remember the joke, but it was about the way girls try to turn fashion into a career before finding a real job, while guys try to turn sports into a career before finding a real job.

We had a band leader that ran into a problem with the board of education.

What was the problem?

He had no problem getting a job in a school district that would treat him right and show some respect and appreciation for him.

Teachers are sadly in a tough spot. If they weren't so arrogant in their beliefs it would be easier to sympathize with them. They make so little money typically, that they aren't exactly able to push back against practices they find harmful, wasteful, or otherwise wrong. Trying to do so threatens their ability to pay the bills....so sadly, they go along to get along.

The idea that parents have no say in curriculum is absurd. Parents used to do the teaching, and even after teaching was a profession....the Scopes Monkey trial is an old example of the acceptance of parents having a say in their child's education. Teachers decided almost overnight....parents should be removed from the process.


We got rid of the people on the board that caused all the problems.

This is called a right wing phenomenon....but even cities as liberal as San Francisco saw the exact same thing happen. In my mind, it happened anywhere that parents are attentive to their child's education.

He was the one that taught my son how to take advantage of his minority status.

Not sure what you mean by this....

I have seen these things happen of course, it's simply not something I've ever done. I cannot say I can ever recall a time when I was told I deserved something because I was white....nor do I think I could successfully make the claim I've been deprived of something because I'm white (so few would seem to believe me even if I had evidence).

Yet, here's the real catch....I don't want to make those claims. I'm not entitled to anything because I'm white....I am entitled to some few things because I'm lucky enough to be a citizen of this nation and I'm a human being. Likewise, I don't deserve to be deprived of anything for being white...but if it were to happen, even on the explicit racial terms of "because you're white"....I don't think I'd argue against the discrimination because it's racial. I'd argue against it because it's inherently dehumanizing to reduce someone to mere skin color.
The people who preach those things, and the thoughtless cowards who repeat their words, are vile in my eyes.
 
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Diamond7

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What was the problem?
In the band, it cost money to go places. Disney World or where ever. The kids that do not have the money are allowed to earn the money. They have car washes and sometimes just go door to door asking for donations for the band. There were two or three kids that did not have the money, they did not want to work for the money. They just wanted it for free. I mostly got involved because I helped the conservative people that were running against that liberal agenda. We have a Democrat Mayor that I support, so it is not a party thing. Just a liberal agenda. We are very conservative here. I went to California once and I was told that I was the most conservative person that they had ever met. But I am typical for this area and this state.
 
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Diamond7

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I don't think I'd argue against the discrimination because it's racial. I'd argue against it because it's inherently dehumanizing to reduce someone to mere skin color.
That is the interesting thing with my son. He is Asian. But no one has ever guessed that. People do not know, but they guess Black or Hispanic. In High School, he had a 3.9 but during the pandemic in College, he was running a 4.0 so he made the president's list. I think they give you extra money just because of your good grades. He did graduate debt free. He owed some money for a motorcycle, but all of his education was paid for. He was in a program where he worked, but they paid him $20 an hour. He worked for Smuckers for three months and he worked for Purell for three months. So it took him 5 years to graduate.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Nobody is culpable for what their ancestors did.

When people talk about systemic racism it has nothing to do with me, a white person, being guilty or morally culpable for what my ancestors did, nor that I bear guilt/responsibility for the systems in place which may unfairly advantage me over a non-white person.

Systemic problems require systemic solutions.

-CryptoLutheran

Strange then that when people discuss the so called solutions to such problems...the voices of white people who may have a different opinion than others are told to be silent. It's almost as if they are expected to go along with a solution they don't agree with, quietly, and without complaint....because ultimately, the solution is not for them, does not benefit them, possibly even unfairly discriminates against them, but despite this....they should accept it.

Whenever I see that sort of mentality, you can say you aren't blaming white people or holding them responsible for something till you're blue in the face....but I would never believe you. It's like a judge sentencing you to 10 years after you were acquitted of the charges. If I'm not guilty...why do so many seek my harm?
 
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Ana the Ist

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In the band, it cost money to go places. Disney World or where ever. The kids that do not have the money are allowed to earn the money. They have car washes and sometimes just go door to door asking for donations for the band. There were two or three kids that did not have the money, they did not want to work for the money. They just wanted it for free.

There's a mentality that I recognized in some few peers of mine growing up that I always shook my head at. A sort of "I'm too good for that" mentality towards work that is menial or something that our society overlooks. Sadly, it appears that this mentality hasn't diminished but instead has proliferated.

I was taught the value of money first, and was told that for completing the few chores I had as a child I would get I think about 5 dollars a month which I could spend as I pleased. To a 6 or 7yo...I thought I was rich. Then around 9 or 10 I recall the day when my father didn't give me my allowance and I asked why. I was told I hadn't really earned it, my parents had wanted to teach me about money, and the chores I did were what everyone does (or should) without pay, when they are older. I protested angrily that it wasn't fair and blah blah blah and my father told me not to worry, he had some "real" work I could do. He took me outside, showed me how to start the lawnmower, told me I would have 10 dollars a week for mowing the entire lawn. It's about a 2.5 hour job, that wasn't pleasant on hot humid days....especially with the steep hill in the backyard. It was an old heavy push mower. I did this every week for 2 years before my dad stopped paying me and I didn't protest, because clearly, this was simply something I should be doing anyway. When I was 15 I got my first job, bagging groceries, at minimum wage and I've never been ashamed of it or any other job since.


I mostly got involved because I helped the conservative people that were running against that liberal agenda. We have a Democrat Mayor that I support, so it is not a party thing. Just a liberal agenda. We are very conservative here. I went to California once and I was told that I was the most conservative person that they had ever met. But I am typical for this area and this state.

I am frequently told by coworkers I'm annoyingly liberal or leftist. On here, I'm imagined to be some secret fascist far right lunatic by a few posters who have subtly insinuated as much.

It's all relative. I do hold a few rather extreme views....but I don't know what political ideology they would neatly fit in, nor do I much care. I wouldn't share them on here.

I think most people adopt the socially acceptable political views of their peer groups, rarely think hard about any of it, and imagine themselves under whatever label they like best (because they appear to not actually understand what the labels meant). This has only recently become an issue because those people decided they should become much more politically active....whatever that means to them....and they have transgressed any values they might have once held.
 
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Ana the Ist

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That is the interesting thing with my son. He is Asian. But no one has ever guessed that. People do not know, but they guess Black or Hispanic.

Does he get offended? I think that in a multiracial, multiethnic society that sort of curiosity is natural. People might be afraid to ask but not realize guessing can be worse.

In High School, he had a 3.9 but during the pandemic in College, he was running a 4.0 so he made the president's list.

Wow. Was he doing classes over Zoom?



I think they give you extra money just because of your good grades.

Perhaps that's a local program.


He did graduate debt free.

That's a good thing to not have hanging over one's head.


He owed some money for a motorcycle, but all of his education was paid for. He was in a program where he worked, but they paid him $20 an hour. He worked for Smuckers for three months and he worked for Purell for three months. So it took him 5 years to graduate.

Hmmm...organic chemistry or something? What degree did he get?
 
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RDKirk

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Does he get offended? I think that in a multiracial, multiethnic society that sort of curiosity is natural. People might be afraid to ask but not realize guessing can be worse.
It's been a couple of decades since I've lived in Hawaii. When I was there, residents freely, proudly, and gleefully spoke of their own mixed etthnic heritages. It seemed that the more different ethnic groups they could claim, the better in some cases. In other cases, people were just as proud to claim "all Japanese" or "all Chinese." People poked fun at their own ethnic stereotypes and at each other's ethnic stereotypes....publicly, even media celebrities did it.

That doesn't mean that racism didn't raise its head...jerks will be jerks. The way you can tell a jerk from a racist is that a jerk will use any available stick on anybody. If someone is fat, the jerk will beat him with his fatness. If someone wears glasses, the jerk will beat him with his glasses. If someone is a different race, the jerk will beat him with his race. The racist beats someone over race, but is a nice guy to his own race.
 
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Diamond7

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Does he get offended?
No, I told him he needed to develop good communication skills and that is exactly what he did.
I would have 10 dollars a week for mowing the entire lawn. It's about a 2.5 hour job, that wasn't pleasant on hot humid days.
My dad had this reverse psychology thing going. We had a fence that needed to be painted and we made a "bet" about if I would finish it or not. The deal was, I would get a riding lawn mower. That mower got used a lot. I even worked all summer cutting grass in a cemetery with it.

More than anything I learned we have to finish what we start in life.
Hmmm...organic chemistry or something? What degree did he get?
Computer engineering. He travels around a lot and he likes that. They give him $22 a meal or $64 a day for food. I suppose it cost $22 to have food delivered. But I only spend two or three dollars a day on food. My mom had a chemistry degree and I have a niece that has a PhD in chemistry. She works for NASA in Dallas and they paid for her Phd. Although my brother claims he had to work for 3 years to pay for her education.

They were having problems with the robots at the Amazon warehouses. My son's team went in and wrote up to 1000 incident reports and the people who installed the system had to fix all of that. I talked to a driver and he said you have to be pretty smart to work on the robotics. But my son does not claim to be smart. He just said he works hard. That is mostly what he does. Goes in to do his part in building a factory or setting up the network. Both my sons give me lots of stories to tell about them.
 
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Ana the Ist

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No, I told him he needed to develop good communication skills and that is exactly what he did.

Sometimes our first emotional reactions are wrong. It's hard for me to jump to the worst conclusion about someone based on my interpretation of their words. I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt, try to assume the most favorable interpretation.....or ask them to explain what they mean.

My dad had this reverse psychology thing going. We had a fence that needed to be painted and we made a "bet" about if I would finish it or not. The deal was, I would get a riding lawn mower. That mower got used a lot. I even worked all summer cutting grass in a cemetery with it.

No riding mower for me lol. It didn't even have automatic wheels. The hill is probably smaller than I remember....like a 50% incline.


More than anything I learned we have to finish what we start in life.

Good to see someone else has some values.


Computer engineering. He travels around a lot and he likes that. They give him $22 a meal or $64 a day for food. I suppose it cost $22 to have food delivered. But I only spend two or three dollars a day on food. My mom had a chemistry degree and I have a niece that has a PhD in chemistry. She works for NASA in Dallas and they paid for her Phd. Although my brother claims he had to work for 3 years to pay for her education.

Smart kids and parents. You must be proud.


They were having problems with the robots at the Amazon warehouses. My son's team went in and wrote up to 1000 incident reports and the people who installed the system had to fix all of that. I talked to a driver and he said you have to be pretty smart to work on the robotics. But my son does not claim to be smart. He just said he works hard. That is mostly what he does. Goes in to do his part in building a factory or setting up the network. Both my sons give me lots of stories to tell about them.

He's humble...being smart can do that I think. People recognize intelligence and claim it a great quality to have....but in truth I think they mean "in themselves" because it seems to make people resentful when they recognize it in others. It makes life seem unfair and cruel. Other advantages like like strength or beauty can confer advantages....but they'll fade with time. If one is determined....they can use methods to try and close the gap between one's self and others. Intelligence however, is like a cup of water....you're born with a certain amount, no way to really get more. When you one day cross paths with someone who has a full pitcher of water....it seems unfair.

Probably a good thing to stay humble.
 
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