Joe Biden proposals for banning some firearms, high capacity magazines, immunity changes
- Thread starter tall73
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You can "think" all you want. But unless you have facts to base your thoughts on then whatever you think may be totally incorrect. Do you have anything from the founders regarding the need to have gun control and that was perfectly acceptable to infringe on people rights to bear arms? In order to further understand what they wanted and why, you look at the things they wrote about the subject. Just like Aldebaran posted. Those things indicate exactly what the founders thought and desired. Now they can't out all of that into a constitution. Otherwise it would have been a volume rather than a constitution.
They also created a mechanism to change it should the people desire. So rather than create laws to limit gun ownership or limit what people can have the proper way is to change the constitution. Saying a person can only have 10 round clips or only be allowed so many bullets is an infringement and a violation of the constitution. Saying a person cannot own a semi-automatic rifle is an infringement and a violation of the constitution and the intent of the writers.
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Irrelevant to the constitution. Those that attacked the capital were not under the support from the people. They were fringe groups a tiny tiny minority of people. They violated the principles in the constitution and the writers of the constitution. Those that attacked the capital should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They were not patriots.
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pgp_protector
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I hate the fingerprint scanner on my phone 3/4 the time it doesn't work when I get callouses on my fingers.
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Have you stopped beating your wife? Loaded questions are not very useful.
Which I responded to. Two of the founding fathers are not the entirety of them and their reasoning.
Show me the court case that made this ruling.
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pgp_protector
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One thing I found that's good for training (in house even) is the PinkRino (or equivalent) Laser cartage, they fired when the firing pin hits the back to shoot a laser at your target, great for target practice / dry firing your actual weapon, and you also get used to the weight and trigger control of the weapon you wish to practice with (at much lower cost than burning through hundreds of rounds)
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pgp_protector
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I've seen .22 long, short might need to go with one of the other trainers.Ahhh, just looked ‘em up they don’t have it in .22 cal
LaserLyte has a 22 trainer, but not cartage base
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Speedwell
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The 2nd Amendment puts forward "the security of a free state" as a reason for the right to bear arms. The primary reason for that was to defend the country at a time when maintaining a large standing army was not contemplated. At the present time 2A enthusiasts imagine that the most important reason is to protect True Patriots from atheistic left-wing Democrats imposing tyrannical rule, but I see no evidence that it was the Founders' primary concern. There is nothing in the concept of "a well-regulated militia" that requires complete freedom from gun laws or that mandates guns be owned in secrecy from the government. The concept of "well-regulated militia" was not novel to the Constitution, but appeared in the Articles of Confederation as well,
"...but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accounted, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition, and camp equipage."
and reflects concern primarily with external threats. District of Columba v. Heller clarified the right to bear arms as covering guns owned for personal and home protection but, again, nothing in that decision implies a right to own guns in secrecy from the government or without any sort of regulation. The notion tht any sort of regulation at all is part of a sinister left-wing plot aimed at total confiscation is a paranoid fantasy.
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There are more than two.
"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823
"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789
"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783
“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
- Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833
"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789
"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787
"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28
"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788
"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
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All I want to know is if you have other founders that believed in gun control or wanted the 2nd Amendment heavily curtailed. That's not a stop beating your wife question.
If you do, it would be interesting to know what they had to say about it.
There were definitely more than two that had things to say.
California has that law, Connecticut, DC, Hawaii, NY and Vermont all have time laws. Most of them also ban some semi automatic rifles.
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essentialsaltes
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The House Judiciary Committee postponed a scheduled Tuesday markup on a resolution to nullify a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) pistol brace rule following the mass shooting at a Nashville, Tennessee, school on Monday.
For a moment I was astonished that Jim Jordan suddenly developed the capacity to feel empathy or shame, but I should have known better.
“Democrats were going to turn this tragic event into a political thing,” Judiciary Committee Chair Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) told The Hill on Monday evening.
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List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023 - Wikipedia
Today is the 80th day of the year--and there have been 133 shootings. Be honest now, on what day would Rep. Jordan not think it was a political thing?
Or maybe it's only a political thing on a two mass shooting day? But, no, today was only a one mass shooting day, so that must not be it.
His level of callous evil is incomprehensible.
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The evil sits directly on the shooter. The shooter is the evil one. Anyone who take a weapon of any kind, legal or not, and kills people with premeditation is evil. As long as we have guns in America this is going to happen.List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Today is the 80th day of the year--and there have been 133 shootings. Be honest now, on what day would Rep. Jordan not think it was a political thing?
Or maybe it's only a political thing on a two mass shooting day? But, no, today was only a one mass shooting day, so that must not be it.
His level of callous evil is incomprehensible.
The only way to prevent this carnage is to totally remove gun ownership from Americans. And that is a very bad idea. Because as we have seen America with it's size and borders has no way to control that. Guns will be smuggled into this large country and will be in the hands of criminals who have no care for the law. They will rob and kill the populace with impunity because the populace is unarmed.
It's bad enough already. But we have seen many instances where an armed populace has prevented serious crime because they were armed.
The school incidents are perpetrated by evil wicked people. And why we have not hardened all the schools already is beyond me. Schools have active shooter drills. Why? Cause they know it might happen. Then why on earth don't we do something NOW to harden the schools.to prevent this evil.
It's a real thing now. And we know these evil people will kill kids no matter what the laws are. Take away the semi automatic rifles and only allow bolt rifles and these evil people will use bolt rifles and hand guns. Take away semi auto handguns and these evil people will use wheel guns. IT DOES NOT MATTER TO THEM. Because they are after notoriety and evil. This is a part is the fabric of society now because they KNOW it will create the most stress in society. That's their plan to create chaos and become famous for it.
There is no excuse anymore for not hardening the schools to not allow weapons of any kind into the school. I don't care a wit if kids have to walk through metal detectors and have someone search their bag before going in. Adults too. No one should get into the school with a weapon.
Let's be realistic here. We are not going to ban all guns. And as long as there are guns available of any kind they will be used by evil people to do this kind of thing.
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essentialsaltes
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Nobody has suggested that.
What many have suggested are background checks, red flag laws, bans on particular products of concern, and other measures.
It's very lazy to say, "We can't do everything, therefore we must do nothing."
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QFT, EssentialSaltes.
It seems as if the NRA controls and psychologically manipulates gun owners by fear.
The "invaders" at the border and all sorts of other nonsense. It's really sad.
It seems as if the NRA controls and psychologically manipulates gun owners by fear.
The "invaders" at the border and all sorts of other nonsense. It's really sad.
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essentialsaltes
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Speaking of lazy... he's tried nothing and is all out of ideas.
Tennessee Republican responds to school shooting: ‘We’re not gonna fix it’
Tennessee Rep. Tim Burchett (R) said there’s no way to “fix” gun violence, after a shooter killed three children and three adults at an elementary school in his home state on Monday.
“It’s a horrible, horrible situation,” Burchett told reporters. “And we’re not gonna fix it. Criminals are gonna be criminals.”
Burchett also said he doesn’t see “any real role” for Congress to play in reducing gun violence, other than to “mess things up.”
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