Child Marriage Ban Bill Defeated in West Virginia House

Hammster · Mar 9, 2023

rturner76 said:
I don't understand what these dates mean as it relates to the nation of Israel breaking away from Judah

You don’t understand how a question relates to what you said?

HTacianas · Mar 9, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
ETA: Forgot the link

Child marriage ban bill defeated in West Virginia House

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A bill that would have prohibited minors from getting married in West Virginia was defeated Wednesday night in a legislative committee.

apnews.com

That leaves West Virginia marriage laws in line with nearly every other State.

Pommer · Mar 10, 2023

Hammster said:
Okay, why should you be an adult? What’s the difference between 17 years, 11 1/2 months, and 18 years?

Are you in favor of having a line that we (as a functioning society) can agree on, is “too young””

Hammster · Mar 10, 2023

Pommer said:
Are you in favor of having a line that we (as a functioning society) can agree on, is “too young””

How does that answer my question?

mark46 · Mar 10, 2023

I think that the primary issue is what age a parent can arrange a marriage for their child, as is done in many cultures.

Marriage Age by State 2023

In the US, we don't allow a child to marry without parental approval until they are 18, the age of majority. I would favor a judge being able to marry those over 16 under certain conditions. 9for, example pregnancy, parental approval, and/or willingness of the child.

I think that a 17 year girl should be allowed to marry if SHE wishes to do so, certainly with parental consent.

mark46 · Mar 10, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Because kids are too young to consent to decisions like this, and are ripe targets for actual grooming (i.e. not the drag queen story hour kind).

I believe that the age should be the same as the age for joining the military, 17 years old.

rturner76 · Mar 10, 2023

dogs4thewin said:
Who said the teens were forced to marry?

Many are or they are pressured by their parents and want to do what they are told. They are not 18-year-olds with adult minds. They are children. Why is it statutory rape in some states but ok in others?

rturner76 · Mar 10, 2023

Hammster said:
You don’t understand how a question relates to what you said?

I think I was replying to a different thread by mistake. It was about the nation of Israel and Judah. Apologies for the confusion.

probinson · Mar 10, 2023

I think it's stretching credibility to call a 16 or 17 year old a "child". Certainly not yet an "adult", but also not a "child".

As the law stands now, it says that 16 or 17 year olds can get married with parental consent. I see no issue with this. In fact, my sister, who has now been married to the same man for over 35 years, got married when she was just 17 years old on summer break between her junior and senior year of high school. She was married before she began her senior year of high school.

Do I think everyone should do this? Of course not. But it's really up to the individuals in the situation, IMO.

Hammster · Mar 10, 2023

rturner76 said:
Many are or they are pressured by their parents and want to do what they are told. They are not 18-year-olds with adult minds. They are children. Why is it statutory rape in some states but ok in others?

Where is the evidence that this is so widespread in W. VA that a law is needed?

probinson · Mar 10, 2023

rturner76 said:
Why is it statutory rape in some states but ok in others?

Because some states have stupid laws?

Consider Pennsylvania, which has a democratic legislature. In the state of PA, consent laws for sexual relations extend all the down to 13-years old.

Anyone under 13-years old cannot consent to sexual activity with anyone of any age
Anyone ages 13-15 can consent to sexual activity with someone that is no more than 4 years older than them
- A 13-year old can consent with a 17-year old
- A 14-year old can consent with an 18-year old
- A 15-year old can consent with a 19-year old
- A 16-year old can consent with any age.

Source: https://www.socialwork.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/two_handouts_10_23_19.pdf

Why is the PA law like this? So that high-school romances don't end up with one person being labeled a sex-offender or a rapist for their entire life.

These PA laws are particularly interesting because in 2020, Governor Wolf signed into law HB 360, which set the minimum age for marriage at 18 in the state. Prior to that being enacted, you could marry at 16 with parental consent and even marry under the age of 16 with court approval. Therefore until HB 360 was enacted just 3 years ago, PA had no minimum age for marriage.

So in PA, you can legally consent to sex at age 13 (as long as your partner isn't more than 4 years older than you), but you can't get married until you're 18.

iluvatar5150 · Mar 10, 2023

Hammster said:
Where is the evidence that this is so widespread in W. VA that a law is needed?

Why does an activity need to be widespread in order for it to be banned?

In-person voter fraud is pretty rare, but still illegal. Should that be permissible?

Hammster · Mar 10, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Why does an activity need to be widespread in order for it to be banned?

In-person voter fraud is pretty rare, but still illegal. Should that be permissible?

There’s evidence of voter fraud. Where’s the evidence that this is needed?

iluvatar5150 · Mar 10, 2023

Hammster said:
There’s evidence of voter fraud.

Are you moving the goalposts now? Is the threshold no longer that an activity is “widespread,” but that it merely occurs?

Hammster said:
Where’s the evidence that this is needed?

Did you read the article @essentialsaltes posted? This is one of its sources:

Child Marriage in America: By the Numbers

More than 200,000 children under 18 have been legally married in the U.S. since 2000. This is what we know about them.

apps.frontline.org

In 2010, 63/10000 marriages in WV included a minor.

Hammster · Mar 10, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Are you moving the goalposts now? Is the threshold no longer that an activity is “widespread,” but that it merely occurs?

Did you read the article @essentialsaltes posted? This is one of its sources:

Child Marriage in America: By the Numbers

More than 200,000 children under 18 have been legally married in the U.S. since 2000. This is what we know about them.

apps.frontline.org

In 2010, 63/10000 marriages in WV included a minor.

So? You’ll have to explain why that’s wrong.

rturner76 · Mar 10, 2023

probinson said:
Because some states have stupid laws?

Consider Pennsylvania, which has a democratic legislature. In the state of PA, consent laws for sexual relations extend all the down to 13-years old.

Anyone under 13-years old cannot consent to sexual activity with anyone of any age

Anyone ages 13-15 can consent to sexual activity with someone that is no more than 4 years older than them

A 13-year old can consent with a 17-year old

A 14-year old can consent with an 18-year old

A 15-year old can consent with a 19-year old

A 16-year old can consent with any age.

Source: https://www.socialwork.pitt.edu/sites/default/files/two_handouts_10_23_19.pdf

Why is the PA law like this? So that high-school romances don't end up with one person being labeled a sex-offender or a rapist for their entire life.

These PA laws are particularly interesting because in 2020, Governor Wolf signed into law HB 360, which set the minimum age for marriage at 18 in the state. Prior to that being enacted, you could marry at 16 with parental consent and even marry under the age of 16 with court approval. Therefore until HB 360 was enacted just 3 years ago, PA had no minimum age for marriage.

So in PA, you can legally consent to sex at age 13 (as long as your partner isn't more than 4 years older than you), but you can't get married until you're 18.

I see how it would not be helpful to jail teenagers for having sex. But getting married at age 13 is child abuse in my book. Especially if the parents approve of the child molester taking their daughter when they are just hitting puberty. It's like the Taliban system where they sell off their girls as soon as they hit menstruation. Do we want those kinds of laws in our free nation?

probinson · Mar 10, 2023

rturner76 said:
I see how it would not be helpful to jail teenagers for having sex.

I'm glad we agree there. There are states where that exact thing happens. For example, in California, if an 18-year old has sex with a 17-year old, they can be convicted of statutory rape. I think that's absurd. While I'm not for encouraging teenage sex, I'm also not naive and I know that it happens. It is ridiculous to charge someone with rape in those cases. Even if the 17-year old is the initiator and consents, it's STILL considered statutory rape in California.

rturner76 said:
But getting married at age 13 is child abuse in my book.

But we're not talking about 13-year olds. The law in question is talking about 16 and 17 year olds being allowed to marry with parental consent. I don't have a problem with that at all, and it is a far cry from the Taliban system.

RocksInMyHead · Mar 10, 2023

Hammster said:
How does that answer my question?

If you agree that there should be a line, then there's always going to be someone who falls just short of it. If the line is 16, then what's the difference between someone who is 16 and someone who is 15 and 11/12 months? What's the difference between someone who is 13 and someone who is 12 and 11/12 months?

RocksInMyHead · Mar 10, 2023

probinson said:
But we're not talking about 13-year olds. The law in question is talking about 16 and 17 year olds being allowed to marry with parental consent. I don't have a problem with that at all, and it is a far cry from the Taliban system.

Why isn't that problematic? Very few people who marry at 16 are mentally prepared for that commitment, and that's hardly something that parents are equipped to assess.

Hammster · Mar 10, 2023

RocksInMyHead said:
If you agree that there should be a line, then there's always going to be someone who falls just short of it. If the line is 16, then what's the difference between someone who is 16 and someone who is 15 and 11/12 months? What's the difference between someone who is 13 and someone who is 12 and 11/12 months?

That still didn’t answer my question.

Child Marriage Ban Bill Defeated in West Virginia House

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