Prophecy and Spirituality

rockytopva · Feb 18, 2023

The churches I visit normally keep their eschatology simple with a statement such as...

"We believe in the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years."

And a chat on my views on eschatology with a preacher of that view will normally result in a simple, "Looking for Jesus" reply along with a smile. To get any heavier in Revelation is never fruitful so I rarely bring it up outside Christian web forums. Even on Christian forums the chats normally end up unproductive and one makes more enemies as it is rare to find Christians who have studied Revelation, church history and have arrived at the same conclusions. Folks will get angry at you for disagreeing with them and one creates more enemies than friends, To make a long story short a detailed view of Revelation often comes across as ego, as the Apostle says...

Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. - 1 Corinthians 8:1

Spirituality... But I believe that a key to true spirituality is in the looking for the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ...

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2

1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12

A good man will continue to look unto Jesus and that hope to "see him as he is" is a sanctifying hope. A man heavily into eschatology seldom comes across as a charitable soul.

Freth · Feb 18, 2023

I think the problem is the need to be right, rather than letting scripture interpret itself. When ego enters, truth leaves, which is why there are so many misinterpretations of Bible prophecy.

I do believe it's possible to have a conversation on end time prophecy without having it devolve, but it requires looking at scripture's plain language and not having preconceived notions about what it probably means, but reading what it actually means and what fits. Trying to put a square piece into a round hole doesn't work, and should be obvious.

It isn't just eschatology, it's also doctrine. You can find so many debates on this forum over what scripture actually means, but the plain, easy to understand language is often ignored for the more obscure vague interpretation (or tradition), and the true meaning is lost on deaf ears.

The irony is it was prophesied that there would be a falling away first, before the man of sin is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). Strong's G646 falling away (apostasia): defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake. Defection from the state of truth, forsaking the truth.

Even this passage is misinterpreted as meaning non-believers (or people who leave the church), when it's self-evident that it's about apostasy that happens within Christendom, not without; you have to know the truth first to defect from it. Jesus spoke of problems within the church. Putting tradition before the commandment of God, which is transgression of the law (Matthew 15:2-3), the letters to the seven churches (Revelation 2-3), et al.

What's the answer? The truth. There is only one.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 18, 2023

Freth said:
What's the answer? The truth. There is only one.

And that is the Spirit of Truth. Some churches downplay the role of the Holy Spirit and what scripture teaches about Him.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jipsah · Feb 18, 2023

rockytopva said:
Even on Christian forums the chats normally end up unproductive and one makes more enemies as it is rare to find Christians who have studied Revelation, church history and have arrived at the same conclusions.

Amazing innit? Everyone knows precisely what Revelation means, but no two of agree what that is.

rockytopva said:
Spirituality... But I believe that a key to true spirituality is in the looking for the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ...

I ain't at all that keen on "spirituality". Spirituality seems to keep people running around looking for signs and omens and revelations and what not that more often than not seem to lead them in some direction they already wanted to go. It seems mainly an emotional thing, and I'm not an emotional kinda guy. I got cultural stoicism from both sides of my fam, and have never been one to trust feelings.

Like someone here said, I'm religious but not spiritual. If I wake up in the morning with a sudden impulse to jump in the car and drive to Los Angeles, it's less likely to be the urging of the Holy Spirit and more likely to be me wanting to go off to Cali to visit the Korean kinfolk. If the Holy Spirit wanted me in SoCal then He'd know that that would get it done, but He could get me there in any other way that He chose as well, so I needn't worry too much about how He does it.

rockytopva said:
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12

The Word of the Lord

keras · Feb 18, 2023

Prophets and shepherds of the flock Hebrews 1:1-2

Jeremiah 23:1-2 Woe betide those shepherds who let My flock be scattered and lost. You have not watched over them, but I am watching you to punish you for your misdeeds. James 3:1, Ezekiel 34:7-10, Jeremiah 16:17, Jeremiah 10:21

Jeremiah 23:3-4 I Myself; will gather the remnant of My sheep from all the lands to which I have dispersed them. I shall bring them back to their own Land, where they will be fruitful and increase. I will appoint shepherds, who will tend them and they will live in peace and security. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26

This is the second Exodus, the gathering and resettling of those of His Christian people who are protected during this forthcoming fire judgement. The Lord will raise up righteous leaders for them. The Land will be fruitful and He will protect them from enemies.
Ezekiel 36:8, Ezekiel 38:8b-9, Zechariah 10:8-10

Jeremiah 23:5-6 The days are coming when a Righteous Branch will come from David’s line, a wise King, who will maintain justice. Judah and Israel will be kept safe and will live undisturbed in the Land.
The ‘days are coming’, verses 5-6 refer to a later period, the Millennium reign of Jesus.

Jeremiah 23:7-8 Therefore, the time is coming when people will no longer praise the Lord for bringing His people out of Egypt, but praise Him for gathering the descendants of the Israelites back from all the lands where He had dispersed them. They will again live on their own soil. [‘Therefore the time is coming’ means – therefore, before the Millennium the Lord will instigate the migration of His people into their inheritance.] Eze. 20:34

Jeremiah 23:9-15 Of the prophets: I am weak because of the Lord’s Holy Words. For now, the Land is full of godless people, prophet and priest alike are godless and I see their evil deeds. I see things most horrible, adulterers and hypocrites, to Me all the inhabitants of Jerusalem are like Sodom and Gomorrah. Therefore, I shall bring disaster upon them on the Day of Reckoning. Ezekiel 22:26-28, Jeremiah 14:14-16, Jeremiah 10:13-14

Jeremiah 23:16-17 Do not listen to what the so called prophets say, those who buoy you up with false hopes and give voice to their own fancies. It is not the Lord’s Words that they speak. They say to all who follow their false teachings: prosperity will be yours and no harm will befall you. Prosperity theology and rapture theories are the fancies and mistaken beliefs of many Christians today. Isaiah 50:10-11, Ezekiel 13:1-16, Jer.6:13-15

Jeremiah 23:18 For which of them have stood in the counsel of the Lord and received His Word and taken heed of it, with obedience? Psalm 74:9 A serious indictment against those end time preachers, scholars and authors, who fail to properly discern and understand the prophetic Word, yet they promulgate and make money from their own theories, ideas and incorrect teachings. Psalms 50:16-19, Isaiah 30:10, Micah 3:5-7

Jeremiah 23:19 See what a scorching wind goes out from the Lord, a furious whirlwind, that whirls around the heads of the wicked. A ‘scorching wind, a furious whirlwind’, is another description that fits a coronal mass ejection, the fire judgement that the Lord will use on His Day of vengeance and wrath. Psalms 18:7-18, Malachi 4:1

Jeremiah 23:20 The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purposes. In days to come, you will truly understand. Hosea 14:9, 2 Peter 1:19

Jeremiah 23:21-22 I did not send these prophets, yet they go out with a message that is false. If only they proclaim My true message to My people and turn them from their evil ways!

Jeremiah 23:23-24 Am I a God near at hand only – do I not fill heaven and earth? Can anyone hide in some secret place and I not see them? Amos 9:1

Jeremiah 23:25-40…An indictment upon false teachers and prophets. Jeremiah 5:30-31, James 3:1

Deuteronomy 32:28-29 You are a people devoid of understanding. If only you had the wisdom to discern what your end will be!
Ref: REBible, some verses abridged.

DavidPT · Feb 18, 2023

Jipsah said:
If I wake up in the morning with a sudden impulse to jump in the car and drive to Los Angeles, it's less likely to be the urging of the Holy Spirit and more likely to be me wanting to go ff to Cali then He'd know that that would get it done, but He could get me there in any other way that He chose as well, so IMO I needn't worry too much about how He does it.

Speaking of something like that, decades ago when I used to live in Dallas, Tx, there was a Pentecostal man I was aquainted with at the time, and that my wife and I were having some issues in our marriage, thus we broke up for awhile, and that this Pentecostal man invited me to stay with him and his family for awhile, which I eventually did.

While I was staying there he told me about something that happened to him years earlier. He indicated that the Holy Spirit told him that he needs to get on a plane and fly to California to a town he had never been to before, and that there would be a particular person there that he was to share the gospel with. Apparently, the Holy Spirit even gave him a vivid description of what this person looks like, what this person would even be wearing at the time, and where in this town and at what time he would find this person.

To make a long story short, he indicated he booked a flight within hours of having received that from the Holy Spirit. He then gets to his destination, and after arriving, he is not finding this particular person, though. He said he waited maybe 3 or 4 days to encounter this person then finally decided to go back to Dallas.

At the time since I was involved with a non Denominational Charismatic church, I didn't see anything wrong with this picture, and in my mind, he was simply obeying the Holy Spirit at the time. But since I'm no longer a Charismatic and that when I look back on things like that now, I was obviously very gullable and naive in those days. Which might explain why I'm like what I am now in these days, basically the opposite for the most part.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 18, 2023

DavidPT said:
Speaking of something like that, decades ago when I used to live in Dallas, Tx, there was a Pentecostal man I was aquainted with at the time, and that my wife and I were having some issues in our marriage, thus we broke up for awhile, and that this Pentecostal man invited me to stay with him and his family for awhile, which I eventually did.

While I was staying there he told me about something that happened to him years earlier. He indicated that the Holy Spirit told him that he needs to get on a plane and fly to California to a town he had never been to before, and that there would be a particular person there that he was to share the gospel with. Apparently, the Holy Spirit even gave him a vivid description of what this person looks like, what this person would even be wearing at the time, and where in this town and at what time he would find this person.

To make a long story short, he indicated he booked a flight within hours of having received that from the Holy Spirit. He then gets to his destination, and after arriving, he is not finding this particular person, though. He said he waited maybe 3 or 4 days to encounter this person then finally decided to go back to Dallas.

At the time since I was involved with a non Denominational Charismatic church, I didn't see anything wrong with this picture, and in my mind, he was simply obeying the Holy Spirit at the time. But since I'm no longer a Charismatic and that when I look back on things like that now, I was obviously very gullable and naive in those days. Which might explain why I'm like what I am now in these days, basically the opposite for the most part.

Beware of false prophets. I am not saying the person you are talking about is/was a false prophet. But maybe he did not test the spirit that he thought was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot,will not tell a lie. If it had been the Holy Spirit that instructed him, he would have found things exactly as instructed. Test every spirit to see if it is from God.
1John 4: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

rockytopva · Feb 18, 2023

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Beware of false prophets. I am not saying the person you are talking about is/was a false prophet. But maybe he did not test the spirit that he thought was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot,will not tell a lie. If it had been the Holy Spirit that instructed him, he would have found things exactly as instructed. Test every spirit to see if it is from God.
1John 4: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Not only... In this day and time false profits are considered bad as well. Again, in the prophecy for all the wrong reasons.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 18, 2023

rockytopva said:
Not only... In this day and time false profits are considered bad as well. Again, in the prophecy for all the wrong reasons.

Indeed.

parousia70 · Feb 21, 2023

rockytopva said:
Folks will get angry at you for disagreeing with them and one creates more enemies than friends, To make a long story short a detailed view of Revelation often comes across as ego.

I find it's because so many here believe that understanding and accepting "the correct eschatology" is a requirement for salvation.

It's not.

When they believe they have understood and accepted "The correct eschatology" and find that you don't agree with their understanding, then to them, that means you aren't Christain and aren't saved.

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Prophecy and Spirituality

rockytopva

Love to pray! :)

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Freth

Well-Known Member

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Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy

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Jipsah

Blood Drinker

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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DavidPT

Well-Known Member

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Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy

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rockytopva

Love to pray! :)

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Handmaid for Jesus

You can't steal my joy

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parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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