Was Trump Fascist?

Landon Caeli · Jan 28, 2023

The reason for this question, is that the news has been suggesting a possible presidential run for Ron DeSantis, who I personally view as an authoritarian kind of person, in comparison with Trump. But then I remembered a lot of people claiming that Trump was a fascist - but I never viewed him that way.

Personally, my view of Trump is a 1980's kind of guy, who isn't the type who is into banning books, or being racist, or going against progressive, democratic values at all.

...So I was wondering where people get off calling him "fascist", especially when considering that Ron DeSantis does indeed seem more that way than Trump ever did.

In fact, I view DeSantis as so authoritarian, I might even consider voting Democrat if he becomes the primary candidate for the GOP - something I've never considered before in my life.

Landon Caeli · Jan 28, 2023

This doesn't seem "fascist" to me at all:

"Trump’s agenda has been a boon to the gay community. Through his philanthropic work over the years with charities combating the AIDS crisis, his previous support of amending the 1964 Civil Rights Act to include a ban on discrimination based on sexual orientation, and his early support of gay couples having the same rights and protections as straight couples, Trump was an ally long before he was president. He is likely even the first private club owner in Palm Beach, Florida, to admit an openly gay couple."

Log Cabin Republicans chair: LGBT Americans belong in Donald Trump's Republican Party

While Democrats take the lesbian and gay community for granted, Donald Trump's Republican Party is delivering real results.

www.usatoday.com

Donald Trump's history shows him to be much more sympathetic to democratic values than Ron DeSantis... Not that he's "woke" or anything, just that he's what I consider to be *normal*.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 28, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
The reason for this question, is that the news has been suggesting a possible presidential run for Ron DeSantis, who I personally view as an authoritarian kind of person, in comparison with Trump. But then I remembered a lot of people claiming that Trump was a fascist - but I never viewed him that way.

Personally, my view of Trump is a 1980's kind of guy, who isn't the type who is into banning books, or being racist, or going against progressive, democratic values at all.

...So I was wondering where people get off calling him "fascist", especially when considering that Ron DeSantis does indeed seem more that way than Trump ever did.

In fact, I view DeSantis as so authoritarian, I might even consider voting Democrat if he becomes the primary candidate for the GOP - something I've never considered before in my life.

Trump was absolutely into being racist. He may not have been 1920's Alabama Racist, but he did plenty of things both during his political career and before it that exhibited more contemporary flavors of racism.

Trump was sort of a fascist lite, or maybe aesthetically fascist - he has fascist tendencies in that he's authoritarian and anti-democratic, ultra-nationalistic, and very into cultivating a cult of personality. But he didn't have the discipline or even much apparent desire to be a real head of state. If he'd started out in politics instead of real estate, then by now, he'd probably have wound up a real fascist, but instead, he wound up as a 70yo spoiled rich playboy who half-heartedly played fascist on tv.

Landon Caeli · Jan 28, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Trump was absolutely into being racist. He may not have been 1920's Alabama Racist, but he did plenty of things both during his political career and before it that exhibited more contemporary flavors of racism.

Trump was sort of a fascist lite, or maybe aesthetically fascist - he has fascist tendencies in that he's authoritarian and anti-democratic, ultra-nationalistic, and very into cultivating a cult of personality. But he didn't have the discipline or even much apparent desire to be a real head of state. If he'd started out in politics instead of real estate, then by now, he'd probably have wound up a real fascist, but instead, he wound up as a 70yo spoiled rich playboy who half-heartedly played fascist on tv.

Who would you say is more fascist. Trump or DeSantis?

Sketcher · Jan 28, 2023

Trump's first term fell well short of fascism. If he had a second term, he may have been more authoritarian since he wouldn't have to worry about re-election.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 28, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
Who would you say is more fascist. Trump or DeSantis?

I don't know enough about Desantis to say. I don't get the impression he's as invested in developing a cult of personality.

Hans Blaster · Jan 28, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
I don't know enough about Desantis to say. I don't get the impression he's as invested in developing a cult of personality.

I think you have to have one before you can build a cult around it.

DaisyDay · Jan 28, 2023

Sketcher said:
Trump's first term fell well short of fascism. If he had a second term, he may have been more authoritarian since he wouldn't have to worry about re-election.

I think he tried to be authoritarian but a large number of his staff and the military wouldn't go along with it. I don't think he was particularly concerned with re-election. I believe he thought he was invincible or that he could get away with stealing the election.

Sketcher · Jan 28, 2023

DaisyDay said:
I think he tried to be authoritarian but a large number of his staff and the military wouldn't go along with it. I don't think he was particularly concerned with re-election. I believe he thought he was invincible or that he could get away with stealing the election.

His narcissm wouldn't let him believe that he wasn't re-elected. He thought he could just do what he wanted and the people would love him for it.

sandman · Jan 28, 2023

I have always figured that people who attempt to discern others traits without knowing the person or without getting direct revelation from God …are either wrong or pointing three fingers back at themselves.

Pommer · Jan 28, 2023

Classic fascism requires a National Mythos that must be believed in toto by the hoi polloi.
Trump sowed seeds of this but wasn’t very good at a definitive, cohesive, nationalistic narrative and then got voted out by 81 million.

DaisyDay · Jan 28, 2023

sandman said:
I have always figured that people who attempt to discern others traits without knowing the person or without getting direct revelation from God …are either wrong or pointing three fingers back at themselves.

Why? Is that what you're doing here?

Ana the Ist · Jan 28, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
The reason for this question, is that the news has been suggesting a possible presidential run for Ron DeSantis, who I personally view as an authoritarian kind of person, in comparison with Trump. But then I remembered a lot of people claiming that Trump was a fascist - but I never viewed him that way.

Personally, my view of Trump is a 1980's kind of guy, who isn't the type who is into banning books, or being racist, or going against progressive, democratic values at all.

...So I was wondering where people get off calling him "fascist", especially when considering that Ron DeSantis does indeed seem more that way than Trump ever did.

In fact, I view DeSantis as so authoritarian, I might even consider voting Democrat if he becomes the primary candidate for the GOP - something I've never considered before in my life.

I wouldn't really consider either of them fascist. Trump never argued for any increased military intervention....just the opposite. DeSantis doesn't strike me as unwilling to engage with political opponents over disagreements of opinion.

Yttrium · Jan 28, 2023

I think Trump respects authoritarian regimes and is an authoritarian wanna-be, but it just doesn't work for him. To be authoritarian, you need loyal people to enact your plan. Between frequently firing people around him and alienating most of the rest with his wacky ideas, he would never be able to pull it off.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 28, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Trump was absolutely into being racist. He may not have been 1920's Alabama Racist, but he did plenty of things both during his political career and before it that exhibited more contemporary flavors of racism.

Can you give some examples?

Landon Caeli · Jan 28, 2023

DaisyDay said:
Why? Is that what you're doing here?

Now-now, let's not be hasty. In large, he is correct in what he says.

iluvatar5150 · Jan 28, 2023

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Can you give some examples?

His pushing the Obama Birther conspiracy is a pretty good example, as was his telling the Squad to go back to their home countries instead of participating in American politics. While I wouldn't call his appointing of Jeff Sessions, vocal opponent of police consent decrees (a tool used by the federal gov't to get local pd's to stop violating civil right of citizens, often minorities), outright racist, it was pointed in that direction.

Landon Caeli · Jan 28, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
I wouldn't really consider either of them fascist. Trump never argued for any increased military intervention....just the opposite. DeSantis doesn't strike me as unwilling to engage with political opponents over disagreements of opinion.

By "authoritarian" and "fascist", I just mean someone who restricts freedom by dictating a predisposed set of values which need to be accepted... Not necessarily someone who builds a large military or refuses to engage in discussions with opponents.

I'm thinking USSR style, when I say authoritarian or fascist - of course neither Trump or DeSantis are quite that bad, but that's the opposite of freedom to me, and that's the concept I'm attempting to portray here by using these words.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 28, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
His pushing the Obama Birther conspiracy is a pretty good example, as was his telling the Squad to go back to their home countries instead of participating in American politics. While I wouldn't call his appointing of Jeff Sessions, vocal opponent of police consent decrees (a tool used by the federal gov't to get local pd's to stop violating civil right of citizens, often minorities), outright racist, it was pointed in that direction.

How is that racist? If he was not born in the US he does not qualify to be POTUS. Anything else?

DaisyDay · Jan 28, 2023

Landon Caeli said:
Now-now, let's bot be hasty. In large, he is correct in what he says.

I disagree. We can discern the traits of others by observation and discussion. What's worse is his implication that we are in the wrong for even trying to understand what motivates people not ourselves.

The only place I agree is that inapt criticisms are usually more about the critic.

Was Trump Fascist?

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