Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop Refuses to Bake a Birthday Cake for Transgendered Person

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Agreed. He's not being asked to participate in the celebration in any way....it's a cake. It's traditionally symbolic for birthdays, not really anything else....and hearing that it's celebrating that as well shouldn't negate his baking it.
Okay, I’ll ask you. Let’s pretend you own a bakery and and someone wants you to make a cake depicting pedophilia or inappropriate behavior with animals. Would you do it in order to be neighborly?
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
33,268
36,591
Los Angeles Area
✟829,959.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,579
11,396
✟437,402.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
38,083
17,554
Finger Lakes
✟12,499.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Of course not. But thanks for moving the goalposts.
What goal posts? You said, "I support the right of private businesses to operate in the way that they think is best." You didn't put qualifications on that. Perhaps you only meant to say, "I support the right of private businesses to discriminate against whomever they prefer"?
 
Upvote 0

Ana the Ist

Aggressively serene!
Feb 21, 2012
37,579
11,396
✟437,402.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Okay, I’ll ask you. Let’s pretend you own a bakery and and someone wants you to make a cake depicting pedophilia or inappropriate behavior with animals. Would you do it in order to be neighborly?

I take it back....I didn't realize that the cake was explicitly asked for decorations that celebrated the transition.


To answer your question....no.

I wouldn't expect a Jewish person to bake a cake celebrating Hitlers birthday and adorned with swastikas. I don't think anyone here would.

In my original post I had assumed it was a birthday cake with "happy birthday name" or something similar.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
38,083
17,554
Finger Lakes
✟12,499.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Okay, I’ll ask you. Let’s pretend you own a bakery and and someone wants you to make a cake depicting pedophilia or inappropriate behavior with animals. Would you do it in order to be neighborly?
The birthday cake didn't depict anything. You know that. Phillips was fine with the request until the customer mentioned that she also wanted to celebrate her transition. The cake didn't change at all, but suddenly it was anathema.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
38,083
17,554
Finger Lakes
✟12,499.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I take it back....I didn't realize that the cake was explicitly asked for decorations that celebrated the transition.
It did not. It was a pink cake with blue icing - no depictions. There may have been "Happy Birthday" or not.
To answer your question....no.

I wouldn't expect a Jewish person to bake a cake celebrating Hitlers birthday and adorned with swastikas. I don't think anyone here would.
Of course - that would be speech. A pink and blue birthday cake isn't, the court decided.
In my original post I had assumed it was a birthday cake with "happy birthday name" or something similar.
Pretty much.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
38,083
17,554
Finger Lakes
✟12,499.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Don't you?


What did you think all this talk about "diversity" meant?

The left has been arguing for racial hiring quotas for awhile now.
This is a different subject, but were they told to stop hiring white men or stop hiring ONLY white men?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SilverBear
Upvote 0

SilverBear

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2016
7,359
3,297
57
Michigan
✟166,106.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
What you are saying is that he would refuse the customer a chocolate cake or a cake that said "Happy Birthday" or a cake with cute butterflies just because this customer identified as a 'transgender' person. That as soon as he figured out this person was different he refused all sales. OK. That's your case. Glad you are clear about it. My opinion is they have identified a principled Christian and they want to grind him out of existence if they can. They cannot tolerate his existence.
a principled Christian (anyone with principles for that matter) do not engage in discrimination against minorities.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: john23237
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
What goal posts? You said, "I support the right of private businesses to operate in the way that they think is best." You didn't put qualifications on that. Perhaps you only meant to say, "I support the right of private businesses to discriminate against whomever they prefer"?
No.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
The birthday cake didn't depict anything. You know that. Phillips was fine with the request until the customer mentioned that she also wanted to celebrate her transition. The cake didn't change at all, but suddenly it was anathema.
Okay, let’s say that an admitted pedopheliac wants you to bake a cake celebrating a child’s birthday. Would you do it?
 
Upvote 0

SilverBear

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2016
7,359
3,297
57
Michigan
✟166,106.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
I support the right of private businesses to operate in the way that they think is best. How about you?
I support the Constitution of this country, the Constitution that says everyone is equal in the eyes of the law and that means everyone even people you don't happen to like. If this private business is open to the public, then it is a privately owned public accommodation open to the public...all of the public. The constitution guarantees that all people are entitled to the full and equal access of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public business, without discrimination.

Business owners are free to hate any minority they please but their hate doesn't give them the right to discriminate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brihaha
Upvote 0

SilverBear

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2016
7,359
3,297
57
Michigan
✟166,106.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Let’s pretend you own a bakery and and someone wants you to make a cake depicting pedophilia or inappropriate behavior with animals. Would you do it in order to be neighborly?
Does this bakery decorate cakes with graphic sexual images? Is that a service the bakery provides? I'm guessing no, so refusing to decorate such a cake is not discrimination as the baker won't do it for any customer. In the same manner if a baker makes wedding cakes for white people refusing to make a wedding cake for a black couple is discrimination.
 
Upvote 0

SilverBear

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2016
7,359
3,297
57
Michigan
✟166,106.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Of course not. But thanks for moving the goalposts.
Daisy didn't move any goal post. You have said repeatedly that you support business owners in running their business as they see fit. So the owner of the bar down the street feels it is a good business model to sell alcohol to children...you would support that wouldn't you?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I support the Constitution of this country, the Constitution that says everyone is equal in the eyes of the law and that means everyone even people you don't happen to like. If this private business is open to the public, then it is a privately owned public accommodation open to the public...all of the public. The constitution guarantees that all people are entitled to the full and equal access of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public business, without discrimination.

Business owners are free to hate any minority they please but their hate doesn't give them the right to discriminate.
So you’d have no problem making a vulgar cake for a pedophile?
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Does this bakery decorate cakes with graphic sexual images? Is that a service the bakery provides? I'm guessing no, so refusing to decorate such a cake is not discrimination as the baker won't do it for any customer. In the same manner if a baker makes wedding cakes for white people refusing to make a wedding cake for a black couple is discrimination.
That doesn’t answer the question.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Daisy didn't move any goal post. You have said repeatedly that you support business owners in running their business as they see fit. So the owner of the bar down the street feels it is a good business model to sell alcohol to children...you would support that wouldn't you?
Only if they want to go to jail.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
38,083
17,554
Finger Lakes
✟12,499.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So you’d have no problem making a vulgar cake for a pedophile?
My bakery doesn’t create vulgar cakes for anyone. Pink cake with blue frosting is not vulgar.

Pedophilia is not a protected class, being illegal.
 
Upvote 0