The Problematic Arrival of Anti-Obesity Drugs

ThatRobGuy

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The success—and mushrooming popularity—of these drugs brings us to a crossroads. We can make bigger bodies smaller with them, but does that mean we should? They promise to help people whose weight poses a health risk. And by shedding more light on what drives obesity, they could also chip away at harmful stereotypes that being overweight is simply a personal failing. At the same time, framing fatness as a disease to be done away with could lead to even greater stigma—as well as turbocharging society’s obsession with thinness.

The activists fear that fat people may feel pressured to take these medications in order to access the same rights as their non-fat counterparts, rather than out of any desire to improve their health. “Is it really about health improvement when a person is experiencing daily weight stigma and feeling shamed and blamed and is looking for a solution to decrease the influence of that in their life?” says Sarah Nutter, a psychologist at the University of Victoria in Canada who specializes in weight stigma and body image.

To go through life in a fat body means you are less likely to be hired for a job and will be paid less than non-fat people. The effects of weight discrimination—which can include poorer medical treatment, loneliness, psychological distress, and increased stress—may actually be cutting short the lives of fat people.

Deciding whether to take the drugs becomes a “devil’s choice,” says Osborn. “Assert that I have the right to be as I am right now—or exchange that right for significantly more rights and privileges in the culture.” The fat acceptance movement instead pushes for fat people to be afforded the same rights as everybody else, regardless of size.





Based on the tone of the article, it would seem as if there are people wanting it both ways here.

For a long time, some have suggested that obesity is out of a person's control and can't be prevented or corrected through lifestyle choices alone, some have even gone further and categorized it as a mental disorder or brain disease. (including one of the doctors selected to run the new dietary guidelines committee)


Now they've introduced medicines that seem to address some of that without relying solely on the person's own will power (which you'd think would be considered a big win), and they're seemingly taking issue with that out of fear that "fat people may feel pressured to take the new drugs". It would seem as if certain folks are unwilling to entertain any plan other than "pretend it's okay to be 100+ pounds overweight, and have everyone else put on blinders and pretend people can be healthy at any size" and "everyone else has to accept me just the way I am and no changes of any kind should be required on my part"
 

wing2000

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Based on the tone of the article, it would seem as if there are people wanting it both ways here.

...of course, that's the message Big Pharma has always pushed....take a pill if you don't have the will power to modify one's behavior.
 
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timothyu

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.of course, that's the message Big Pharma has always pushed....take a pill if you don't have the will power to modify one's behavior.
True enough and there is profit to be made in not curing but addressing the issue with 'medications' which of course is a shortcut to simply eating right and avoiding diet and processed foods. But the real issue today is 'offending' those who instead of taking either route avoid any responsibility and say take us as we are. They will have their moment in the sun before nature takes them down early.
 
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Larniavc

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The success—and mushrooming popularity—of these drugs brings us to a crossroads. We can make bigger bodies smaller with them, but does that mean we should? They promise to help people whose weight poses a health risk. And by shedding more light on what drives obesity, they could also chip away at harmful stereotypes that being overweight is simply a personal failing. At the same time, framing fatness as a disease to be done away with could lead to even greater stigma—as well as turbocharging society’s obsession with thinness.

The activists fear that fat people may feel pressured to take these medications in order to access the same rights as their non-fat counterparts, rather than out of any desire to improve their health. “Is it really about health improvement when a person is experiencing daily weight stigma and feeling shamed and blamed and is looking for a solution to decrease the influence of that in their life?” says Sarah Nutter, a psychologist at the University of Victoria in Canada who specializes in weight stigma and body image.

To go through life in a fat body means you are less likely to be hired for a job and will be paid less than non-fat people. The effects of weight discrimination—which can include poorer medical treatment, loneliness, psychological distress, and increased stress—may actually be cutting short the lives of fat people.

Deciding whether to take the drugs becomes a “devil’s choice,” says Osborn. “Assert that I have the right to be as I am right now—or exchange that right for significantly more rights and privileges in the culture.” The fat acceptance movement instead pushes for fat people to be afforded the same rights as everybody else, regardless of size.





Based on the tone of the article, it would seem as if there are people wanting it both ways here.

For a long time, some have suggested that obesity is out of a person's control and can't be prevented or corrected through lifestyle choices alone, some have even gone further and categorized it as a mental disorder or brain disease. (including one of the doctors selected to run the new dietary guidelines committee)


Now they've introduced medicines that seem to address some of that without relying solely on the person's own will power (which you'd think would be considered a big win), and they're seemingly taking issue with that out of fear that "fat people may feel pressured to take the new drugs". It would seem as if certain folks are unwilling to entertain any plan other than "pretend it's okay to be 100+ pounds overweight, and have everyone else put on blinders and pretend people can be healthy at any size" and "everyone else has to accept me just the way I am and no changes of any kind should be required on my part"
Seems to me it's the same choice as taking blood pressure meds. There's no downside.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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I agree with you all on this. Doctors and big pharma do not want you healthy. It is not profitable for them. I am not against medicine or doctors (I am a R.N. retired). But they do not tell you the source of obesity (and other diseases for that matter) is REFINED SUGAR! People love it and it is in everything. People are addicted to it from early childhood.And sugar substitutes are worse. We do not lose weight by drinking/eating diet foods. They make you fat! Doctors will tell you that.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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I agree with you all on this. Doctors and big pharma do not want you healthy. It is not profitable for them. I am not against medicine or doctors (I am a R.N. retired). But they do not tell you the source of obesity (and other diseases for that matter) is REFINED SUGAR! People love it and it is in everything. People are addicted to it from early childhood.And sugar substitutes are worse. We do not lose weight by drinking/eating diet foods. They make you fat! Doctors will tell you that.

Refined sugar will make you fat but it has been around for quite a while. The obesity explosion lines up almost perfectly with the switch from refined sugar to high fructose corn syrup. But then, this is just my opinion.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Refined sugar will make you fat but it has been around for quite a while. The obesity explosion lines up almost perfectly with the switch from refined sugar to high fructose corn syrup. But then, this is just my opinion.
:amen:! It is true that granulated white sugar is not healthy but high fructose corn syrup is definitely worse on our health.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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...of course, that's the message Big Pharma has always pushed....take a pill if you don't have the will power to modify one's behavior.
That's par for the course for profit driven pharmaceutical companies, that part has a remained a constant.

This is more about some of the self-contradicting views from certain parties on obesity in general.

"I shouldn't be pressured into dieting and exercising because this isn't something that's in my control"

So a few doctors have come out and said "okay, we agree with you, so we've developed a med to assist with it"

Then the complaint has transitioned to "well, I don't want this pill to be out there because it's presence may make obese people feel pressured to take it"

They seemingly want the only "acceptable" societal approach to be that everyone else pretend that they're "perfect just the way they are, and don't have to change a thing"



Someone else brought up the blood pressure medication comparison. Some aspects of that are certainly comparable (where people who don't want to make the sacrifices at the dinner table opt to just take a pill instead, encouraged by the drug makers no doubt). However, the key distinction is that the people with high blood pressure don't have an associated activism movement aimed at redefining the medical dynamic and trying to convince the general public that high blood pressure is okay or trying to redefine what constitutes a healthy blood pressure reading. It hasn't become considered "un-PC" to rightfully acknowledge that high blood pressure is a problem. Whereas, acknowledging the problems with obesity has been labelled as "fat shaming"
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I agree with you all on this. Doctors and big pharma do not want you healthy. It is not profitable for them. I am not against medicine or doctors (I am a R.N. retired). But they do not tell you the source of obesity (and other diseases for that matter) is REFINED SUGAR! People love it and it is in everything. People are addicted to it from early childhood.And sugar substitutes are worse. We do not lose weight by drinking/eating diet foods. They make you fat! Doctors will tell you that.
I think blaming it on one particular food type or another isn't necessarily getting the whole story.

I don't think anyone would suggest that drinking sugary soda is a good thing. But at the same time, obesity isn't a problem that's equally experienced by all first-world countries, despite all having regular easy access to the same food types (nor is it even experienced equally among the states)

Case in point- the obesity rates by state:
1674665891458.png


It's not as if sugary cereal or soda aren't amply available in all 50 states, yet there seemingly is something of a regional component to obesity. And when you look at the map of consumption of sugar sweetened beverages by state, it doesn't necessarily line up all that closely with the obesity map

1674666125594.png


For instance, some of the New England states are consuming as much (and in some cases, way more) sugary drinks than some of the southern states, yet in some instances, the southern states have obesity rates that are nearly double.

With regards to food consumption, there's a different food culture in the south. The popular food culture is extremely high in fat and fried food (both calorically dense), and eating until you're absolutely stuffed. As someone who has relatives in both the North and the South, I can attest to the difference in the "food culture" when visiting the relatives in NY vs. the relatives in Tennessee. Not only does the meal typically consist of 2 or more deep fried things, it's almost something of a "point of pride" in being able to demonstrate and brag about how much you can eat. (as odd as it sounds). You won't find nearly as many of the "get your picture on the wall if you can eat this 64oz steak and all the side dishes in under an hour" kinds of restaurants in the north as you would in the southern states.
 
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Belk

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The success—and mushrooming popularity—of these drugs brings us to a crossroads. We can make bigger bodies smaller with them, but does that mean we should? They promise to help people whose weight poses a health risk. And by shedding more light on what drives obesity, they could also chip away at harmful stereotypes that being overweight is simply a personal failing. At the same time, framing fatness as a disease to be done away with could lead to even greater stigma—as well as turbocharging society’s obsession with thinness.

The activists fear that fat people may feel pressured to take these medications in order to access the same rights as their non-fat counterparts, rather than out of any desire to improve their health. “Is it really about health improvement when a person is experiencing daily weight stigma and feeling shamed and blamed and is looking for a solution to decrease the influence of that in their life?” says Sarah Nutter, a psychologist at the University of Victoria in Canada who specializes in weight stigma and body image.

To go through life in a fat body means you are less likely to be hired for a job and will be paid less than non-fat people. The effects of weight discrimination—which can include poorer medical treatment, loneliness, psychological distress, and increased stress—may actually be cutting short the lives of fat people.

Deciding whether to take the drugs becomes a “devil’s choice,” says Osborn. “Assert that I have the right to be as I am right now—or exchange that right for significantly more rights and privileges in the culture.” The fat acceptance movement instead pushes for fat people to be afforded the same rights as everybody else, regardless of size.





Based on the tone of the article, it would seem as if there are people wanting it both ways here.

For a long time, some have suggested that obesity is out of a person's control and can't be prevented or corrected through lifestyle choices alone, some have even gone further and categorized it as a mental disorder or brain disease. (including one of the doctors selected to run the new dietary guidelines committee)


Now they've introduced medicines that seem to address some of that without relying solely on the person's own will power (which you'd think would be considered a big win), and they're seemingly taking issue with that out of fear that "fat people may feel pressured to take the new drugs". It would seem as if certain folks are unwilling to entertain any plan other than "pretend it's okay to be 100+ pounds overweight, and have everyone else put on blinders and pretend people can be healthy at any size" and "everyone else has to accept me just the way I am and no changes of any kind should be required on my part"

So the issue is that people might get the health benefits of being thinner for the wrong reasons? I'm not really seeing this as an issue. I know for myself after having become disabled weight gain has been a constant battle. If I take the drugs because I want to return to the weight I was pre surgery and I happen to be healthier as a side effect that seems like a bonus, not a downside.
 
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I think blaming it on one particular food type or another isn't necessarily getting the whole story.

I don't think anyone would suggest that drinking sugary soda is a good thing. But at the same time, obesity isn't a problem that's equally experienced by all first-world countries, despite all having regular easy access to the same food types (nor is it even experienced equally among the states)

Case in point- the obesity rates by state:
View attachment 327085

It's not as if sugary cereal or soda aren't amply available in all 50 states, yet there seemingly is something of a regional component to obesity. And when you look at the map of consumption of sugar sweetened beverages by state, it doesn't necessarily line up all that closely with the obesity map

View attachment 327086

For instance, some of the New England states are consuming as much (and in some cases, way more) sugary drinks than some of the southern states, yet in some instances, the southern states have obesity rates that are nearly double.

With regards to food consumption, there's a different food culture in the south. The popular food culture is extremely high in fat and fried food (both calorically dense), and eating until you're absolutely stuffed. As someone who has relatives in both the North and the South, I can attest to the difference in the "food culture" when visiting the relatives in NY vs. the relatives in Tennessee. Not only does the meal typically consist of 2 or more deep fried things, it's almost something of a "point of pride" in being able to demonstrate and brag about how much you can eat. (as odd as it sounds). You won't find nearly as many of the "get your picture on the wall if you can eat this 64oz steak and all the side dishes in under an hour" kinds of restaurants in the north as you would in the southern states.

Sugar causes fewer problems with obesity than fried food. Fats are easily stored as fat in the body, as compared to sugar, which the body usually finds easier simply to burn rather than be converted in the liver into fat (if people do have problems with sugar consumption, that means they are pre-diabetic and need to lose visceral fat).

Decades ago there was actually a doctor, Walter Kempner, that treated high blood pressure and kidney failure with a diet of white rice and sugar. He even used it to treat obesity later successfully. This was during a time when high blood pressure was considered mostly untreatable (it contributed to Roosevelt's death).
 
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The success—and mushrooming popularity—of these drugs brings us to a crossroads. We can make bigger bodies smaller with them, but does that mean we should? They promise to help people whose weight poses a health risk. And by shedding more light on what drives obesity, they could also chip away at harmful stereotypes that being overweight is simply a personal failing. At the same time, framing fatness as a disease to be done away with could lead to even greater stigma—as well as turbocharging society’s obsession with thinness.

The activists fear that fat people may feel pressured to take these medications in order to access the same rights as their non-fat counterparts, rather than out of any desire to improve their health. “Is it really about health improvement when a person is experiencing daily weight stigma and feeling shamed and blamed and is looking for a solution to decrease the influence of that in their life?” says Sarah Nutter, a psychologist at the University of Victoria in Canada who specializes in weight stigma and body image.

To go through life in a fat body means you are less likely to be hired for a job and will be paid less than non-fat people. The effects of weight discrimination—which can include poorer medical treatment, loneliness, psychological distress, and increased stress—may actually be cutting short the lives of fat people.

Deciding whether to take the drugs becomes a “devil’s choice,” says Osborn. “Assert that I have the right to be as I am right now—or exchange that right for significantly more rights and privileges in the culture.” The fat acceptance movement instead pushes for fat people to be afforded the same rights as everybody else, regardless of size.





Based on the tone of the article, it would seem as if there are people wanting it both ways here.

For a long time, some have suggested that obesity is out of a person's control and can't be prevented or corrected through lifestyle choices alone, some have even gone further and categorized it as a mental disorder or brain disease. (including one of the doctors selected to run the new dietary guidelines committee)


Now they've introduced medicines that seem to address some of that without relying solely on the person's own will power (which you'd think would be considered a big win), and they're seemingly taking issue with that out of fear that "fat people may feel pressured to take the new drugs". It would seem as if certain folks are unwilling to entertain any plan other than "pretend it's okay to be 100+ pounds overweight, and have everyone else put on blinders and pretend people can be healthy at any size" and "everyone else has to accept me just the way I am and no changes of any kind should be required on my part"
Intermittent fasting has been shown to improve health. Caldwell B. Esselstyn recommended a vegan low fat diet without refined flour and sugar. His obese followers achieved significant weight loss without pills. The Japanese doctor Shigeaki Hinohara lived to be 105. He recommended achieving a low body mass index and taking the stairs instead of the elevator. My 72 year old neighbor is on Keytruda with lung cancer. She does not smoke, but was morbidly obese.
 
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Sugar causes fewer problems with obesity than fried food. Fats are easily stored as fat in the body, as compared to sugar, which the body usually finds easier simply to burn rather than be converted in the liver into fat (if people do have problems with sugar consumption, that means they are pre-diabetic and need to lose visceral fat).

Decades ago there was actually a doctor, Walter Kempner, that treated high blood pressure and kidney failure with a diet of white rice and sugar. He even used it to treat obesity later successfully. This was during a time when high blood pressure was considered mostly untreatable (it contributed to Roosevelt's death).
The body needs fat. But transfats are deadly. Sugar is what causes fatty liver disease, not fat.We see obese children today more because of being fed sugary cereals, (don't get me started on that.),candy, and soft drinks and juice boxes.
 
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The body needs fat. But transfats are deadly. Sugar is what causes fatty liver disease, not fat.We see obese children today more because of being fed sugary cereals, (don't get me started on that.),candy, and soft drinks and juice boxes.
Yes, and even apple juice and flavored yogurts. Total sugar bombs.
 
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timothyu

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! It is true that granulated white sugar is not healthy but high fructose corn syrup is definitely worse on our health.
And the diet stuff and processed whatevers, the body does not know what to do with, and rather than eliminate it, it stores it as fat just in case the memo comes in that fake food is useful stuff. Starch and sugar diets were reserved for times of famine, Yet most of what is on the shelves today is made from precisely that and a famine diet has become the new norm.
 
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And the diet stuff and processed whatevers, the body does not know what to do with, and rather than eliminate it, it stores it as fat just in case the memo comes in that fake food is useful stuff. Starch and sugar diets were reserved for times of famine, Yet most of what is on the shelves today is made from precisely that and a famine diet has become the new norm.

:amen: And it is very addictive.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Intermittent fasting has been shown to improve health. Caldwell B. Esselstyn recommended a vegan low fat diet without refined flour and sugar. His obese followers achieved significant weight loss without pills.
The problem with the (for lack of a better term) "fad diets" (although plant based eating has been around long enough that it's not a recent fad like some of the others, and I think data shows that there are some definite advantages to it) is that they'll all have fairly good results in the short term if the person is starting from a really bad place, and when people see some short term results with something, they tend to think of it as "this must be the perfect diet, look how quickly I dropped 40 pounds!"

If a person is 350+ lbs, and was eating pizza & fast food 4 nights a week, and was washing down every meal with 30oz of Pepsi...

They could do a vegan, vegetarian, keto, paleo, Atkins, Mediterranean, Intermittent Fasting, Carnivore, or 'South Beach' diet, and sticking to any of them for 3-4 months is going to lead to some weight loss and the person feeling better...because in comparison to what they were eating, they'll be taking in fewer calories and/or less processed junk.

Much like if a person was smoking 2 packs a day and drinking 6 beers a day...if they switched to a half pack and 2 beers, they're likely going to cough less, lose some weight, sleep better, have more energy, etc...than they did before. However, that wouldn't necessarily be evidence that "half pack + 2 beers" is a good long term strategy.


From a purely biological sense, we're pretty close to chimps...we're closer to chimps, than chimps are to gorillas. If you look a what chimps eat in nature...it's an omnivorous diet of about a 95:5 ratio of plants:animal-foods. Our small intestine is a little longer and our large intestine is a little shorter (which means we'd be a little better geared for fats and proteins, they'd be little better geared for plant/plant roughage. So my hunch is that if stuck to whole foods, and kept the plant:animal food ration to about a 80:20, we'd probably be in pretty good shape.
 
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