How Well Has Trump "Rendered to Caesar?"

Fantine · Dec 21, 2022

The report reveals that Trump on his federal tax returns declared negative income in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2020, and that he paid a total of $1,500 in income taxes for the years 2016 and 2017.

On their 2020 income tax returns, Trump and his wife Melania paid no federal income taxes and claimed a refund of $5.47 million, according to the report by the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation.

MSN

www.msn.com

How did this compare to the taxes that you and your family paid?
Could you have lived the jet setting lifestyle the Trumps do on the income they claimed to have earned?
Does this affect your opinion of his honesty, character, patriotism?
Do you wonder why the IRS didn't audit his returns until 2019, when they were requested by the (newly elected Democratic majority) Ways and Means Committee?

My answers FYI: He paid less income taxes than we do, and I say that as one half of a retired couple who receives non-taxable VA disability and partially non-taxable Social Security benefits. And he certainly paid a lot less taxes than we did when we were both working.
If we had "no" income, we would be relying on our children and shelters.
My opinion of his honesty, character and patriotism were always extremely negative, so it only confirmed my accurate opinion.
I was surprised that Trump obviously directed (prohibited) the IRS Director from auditing him, probably claiming "executive privilege."

BobRyan · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
MSN

www.msn.com

How did this compare to the taxes that you and your family paid?
Could you have lived the jet setting lifestyle the Trumps do on the income they claimed to have earned?
Does this affect your opinion of his honesty, character, patriotism?

America's richest 400 families pay a lower tax rate than average taxpayer

The wealthiest Americans pay a relatively low tax rate due to a preferential treatment of their investment income, according to a report published Thursday.

www.cnbc.com

Nine Of The 2020 Forbes Ten Wealthiest Americans Are Democrat-Affiliated Liberal Megadonors

thenewamericanist.com

In 1 Chart, How Much the Rich Pay in Taxes

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) holds a news conference to announce legislation that would tax the net worth of America's wealthiest individuals at the U.S. Capitol on March 01, 2021 in Washington, D.C.

www.heritage.org

Killing babies is a pretty big deal for many Christians. And it makes the top-10 list in Lev 18 for things that God will hold even a pagan nation - accountable for -- resulting in shorting it's probationary time on Earth.

Destroying the economy is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Ratcheting Russia into nuclear-war position - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing N. Korea to go back to nuke - threats - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing Iran to go to nuke-threat status - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Promoting marriage confusion and gender confusion - is a pretty big deal for many Christians.

Fantine said:
Do you wonder why the IRS didn't audit his returns until 2019,

Do you wonder why the IRS targetted conservatives then was never held accountable?

But as to the more general question "would you elect President Trump or President Biden to be your pastor or priest?" - I think most Americans would say "no"!

rturner76 · Dec 21, 2022

I don't think they can find where he ever paid taxes.

HTacianas · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
MSN

www.msn.com

How did this compare to the taxes that you and your family paid?
Could you have lived the jet setting lifestyle the Trumps do on the income they claimed to have earned?
Does this affect your opinion of his honesty, character, patriotism?
Do you wonder why the IRS didn't audit his returns until 2019, when they were requested by the (newly elected Democratic majority) Ways and Means Committee?

My answers FYI: He paid less income taxes than we do, and I say that as one half of a retired couple who receives non-taxable VA disability and partially non-taxable Social Security benefits. And he certainly paid a lot less taxes than we did when we were both working.
If we had "no" income, we would be relying on our children and shelters.
My opinion of his honesty, character and patriotism were always extremely negative, so it only confirmed my accurate opinion.
I was surprised that Trump obviously directed (prohibited) the IRS Director from auditing him, probably claiming "executive privilege."

He did precisely what Caesar told him to do.

Fantine · Dec 21, 2022

BobRyan said:
America's richest 400 families pay a lower tax rate than average taxpayer

The wealthiest Americans pay a relatively low tax rate due to a preferential treatment of their investment income, according to a report published Thursday.

www.cnbc.com

Nine Of The 2020 Forbes Ten Wealthiest Americans Are Democrat-Affiliated Liberal Megadonors

thenewamericanist.com

In 1 Chart, How Much the Rich Pay in Taxes

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) holds a news conference to announce legislation that would tax the net worth of America's wealthiest individuals at the U.S. Capitol on March 01, 2021 in Washington, D.C.

www.heritage.org

Killing babies is a pretty big deal for many Christians. And it makes the top-10 list in Lev 18 for things that God will hold even a pagan nation - accountable for -- resulting in shorting it's probationary time on Earth.

Destroying the economy is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Ratcheting Russia into nuclear-war position - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing N. Korea to go back to nuke - threats - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing Iran to go to nuke-threat status - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Promoting marriage confusion and gender confusion - is a pretty big deal for many Christians.

Do you wonder why the IRS targetted conservatives then was never held accountable?

But as to the more general question "would you elect President Trump or President Biden to be your pastor or priest?" - I think most Americans would say "no"!

You completey ignored my question. But let me try to relate it to your reply.
If billionaires paid their fair share of taxes, and some of those taxes were targeted to our most vulnerable citizens--children from birth to age 18, for their physical, educational, and health care needs--would you feel differently about Trump's tax evasion? Last year, half the country's poor children were lifted out of poverty due to the expanded child tax credit--but Republicans blocked its extension, partly because billionaires are getting a free ride. Taking care of the children who are already born is a great way to discourage abortions. It brings mothers hope

Do you realize that income inequality--when more than 30% of a country's income and assets are in the hands of a small number of Americans--was the cause of the Great Depression and the Great Recession? Our economic problems are due to this imbalance--created by conservatives.

Trump's appeasement, primarily due to his hero-worship of ruthless dictators, led to their beliefs that they could get away with (mass) murder. We can't let those misconceptions continue. Russia has revealed that Ukraine is just the first step in their empire building plans, and they are angry at the pushback. If they nuke Ukraine--the agricultural resources his country desperately needs will be rendered worthless..

Fantine · Dec 21, 2022

HTacianas said:
He did precisely what Caesar told him to do.

Not really. Trump was not "Caesar," an emperor. Trump was the executive who shared responsibility with the legislative and judicial branches, subject to our laws and our tax policy.

JimR-OCDS · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
MSN

www.msn.com

How did this compare to the taxes that you and your family paid?
Could you have lived the jet setting lifestyle the Trumps do on the income they claimed to have earned?
Does this affect your opinion of his honesty, character, patriotism?
Do you wonder why the IRS didn't audit his returns until 2019, when they were requested by the (newly elected Democratic majority) Ways and Means Committee?

My answers FYI: He paid less income taxes than we do, and I say that as one half of a retired couple who receives non-taxable VA disability and partially non-taxable Social Security benefits. And he certainly paid a lot less taxes than we did when we were both working.
If we had "no" income, we would be relying on our children and shelters.
My opinion of his honesty, character and patriotism were always extremely negative, so it only confirmed my accurate opinion.
I was surprised that Trump obviously directed (prohibited) the IRS Director from auditing him, probably claiming "executive privilege."

I'm skeptical about the accuracy of the report.

However, if true, Trump lawyers used the tax code which mandates reinvesting in order to bring down taxable income.
People like Trump don't do their own taxes, but higher experts who know how to work the system in their favor.

He didn't break the law, just as Sen John Kerry and the Kennedy's avoided paying taxes by using legal schemes.
Kerry avoided MA tax by storing his yacht in RI, even though he used it primarily on Cape Cod MA.

The Kennedy's had Rose Kennedy's residential address in Florida, despite the fact she spent most of her time
at their Hyannis Mansion in MA.

It may be a flat tax is the way to even things out, but then, the wealth will invest less than they do now.

BobRyan · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
You completey ignored my question. But let me try to relate it to your reply.
If billionaires paid their fair share of taxes, and some of those taxes were targeted to our most vulnerable citizens--children from birth to age 18, for their physical, educational, and health care needs--would you feel differently about Trump's tax evasion?

IF rich democrats were paying high taxes and complaining that a former president broke the law in that regard I would be interested to see how that turns out.

We don't live in that world.

We live in a world where -
Killing babies is a pretty big deal for many Christians. And it makes the top-10 list in Lev 18 for things that God will hold even a pagan nation - accountable for -- resulting in shorting it's probationary time on Earth.

Destroying the economy is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Ratcheting Russia into nuclear-war position - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing N. Korea to go back to nuke - threats - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing Iran to go to nuke-threat status - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Promoting marriage confusion and gender confusion - is a pretty big deal for many Christians.

Fantine · Dec 21, 2022

Other presidents have revealed their tax returns so you are aware, Jim, that Trump's returns are enormously shocking by comparison.

His corporation was just convicted for tax fraud over 15 years by NY.

AG Letitia James is also prosecuting a case.

There are tax shelters and outright fraud. What was provided by the IRS via Congress is a pattern of fraud and non compliance.

And how sick I am of those who make deals with the devil to criminalize abortion simultaneously yielding to temptations like sending out the Texas National Guard to bar starving children.

Halbhh · Dec 21, 2022

BobRyan said:
America's richest 400 families pay a lower tax rate than average taxpayer

The wealthiest Americans pay a relatively low tax rate due to a preferential treatment of their investment income, according to a report published Thursday.

www.cnbc.com

Nine Of The 2020 Forbes Ten Wealthiest Americans Are Democrat-Affiliated Liberal Megadonors

thenewamericanist.com

In 1 Chart, How Much the Rich Pay in Taxes

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) holds a news conference to announce legislation that would tax the net worth of America's wealthiest individuals at the U.S. Capitol on March 01, 2021 in Washington, D.C.

www.heritage.org

Killing babies is a pretty big deal for many Christians. And it makes the top-10 list in Lev 18 for things that God will hold even a pagan nation - accountable for -- resulting in shorting it's probationary time on Earth.

Destroying the economy is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Ratcheting Russia into nuclear-war position - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing N. Korea to go back to nuke - threats - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Allowing Iran to go to nuke-threat status - - is a big deal for more than one or two Americans
Promoting marriage confusion and gender confusion - is a pretty big deal for many Christians.

Do you wonder why the IRS targetted conservatives then was never held accountable?

But as to the more general question "would you elect President Trump or President Biden to be your pastor or priest?" - I think most Americans would say "no"!

The tax code definitely favors the ultra wealthy in regards to investment income.

But Trump runs businesses that actually offer services and products like hotels and apartments for sale. These businesses can make profits or losses depending on how well run they are.

So, Trump isn't an ultra rich person that makes money from money, but instead really like a real estate magnate, where he makes money from selling hotel rooms and apartments and casino entertainment, etc.

But when real estate investment/improvements are poorly managed, they do less well, and make less profit or no profit, and can even make large losses when demand is weak.

The real significance of Trump's tax returns is how often and consistently he has had huge losses -- not just a few years worth of bad losses, but many years worth.

In other words, Trump is a mediocre to poor business manager -- as the bottom line shows.

It's the opposite how he tried to make himself appear as a candidate: he tried to make himself look like a successful businessman, not a mediocre one....

That is very significant for whether you should vote for him, for example.

And that's perhaps why he fought so very hard to prevent the public seeing his tax returns....

chevyontheriver · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
MSN

www.msn.com

How did this compare to the taxes that you and your family paid?
Could you have lived the jet setting lifestyle the Trumps do on the income they claimed to have earned?
Does this affect your opinion of his honesty, character, patriotism?
Do you wonder why the IRS didn't audit his returns until 2019, when they were requested by the (newly elected Democratic majority) Ways and Means Committee?

My answers FYI: He paid less income taxes than we do, and I say that as one half of a retired couple who receives non-taxable VA disability and partially non-taxable Social Security benefits. And he certainly paid a lot less taxes than we did when we were both working.
If we had "no" income, we would be relying on our children and shelters.
My opinion of his honesty, character and patriotism were always extremely negative, so it only confirmed my accurate opinion.
I was surprised that Trump obviously directed (prohibited) the IRS Director from auditing him, probably claiming "executive privilege."

I think your argument is with the tax laws and not with Trump.

Halbhh · Dec 21, 2022

chevyontheriver said:
I think your argument is with the tax laws and not with Trump.

Yes. But also, we can notice that Trump is at best mediocre at operating his business over time, having such large multi-year levels of losses. He's not the especially successful businessman he wanted voters to think.

chevyontheriver · Dec 21, 2022

Halbhh said:
Yes. But also, we can notice that Trump is at best mediocre at operating his business over time, having such large multi-year levels of losses. He's not the especially successful businessman he wanted voters to think.

I don't really care that he is a mediocre businessman. Sorry.

Fantine · Dec 21, 2022

Except, Halhbh, his corporation has already been convicted of 15 years of tax fraud.

Aldebaran · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
Not really. Trump was not "Caesar," an emperor. Trump was the executive who shared responsibility with the legislative and judicial branches, subject to our laws and our tax policy.

Your question, as you titled the thread, was, "How Well Has Trump "Rendered to Caesar?"

If the tax laws didn't require him to pay taxes because of excess business expenses or losses, or tax credits he qualified for, then he rendered unto Caesar (your words, not mine) what he owed Caesar.

Always in His Presence · Dec 21, 2022

This is why releasing his tax information does zero. Income tax is based on salary -

What was Trump's salary during those years?

His main income is from investments and holdings, which are taxed a number of ways - not income tax.

But hey! It is an opportunity and way to call him names again and make accusations, so, it's all good - right?

Fantine · Dec 21, 2022

Have you ever heard of capital gains? Stock options? Dividends? Rental income?

But since his criminally fraudulent business taxes will also be available, the unbelievably gullible and naive Trump believers will come face to face with reality as they thumb desperately through their encyclopedia of excuses searching for an obscure loophole.

ralliann · Dec 21, 2022

chevyontheriver said:
I don't really care that he is a mediocre businessman. Sorry.

Really, he had great policies in this country as president. You would think that would be the main thing.

Always in His Presence · Dec 21, 2022

Any mention of the $1,600,000 President Trump Donated back to Cesare?

Always in His Presence · Dec 21, 2022

Fantine said:
Have you ever heard of capital gains? Stock options? Dividends? Rental income?

But since his criminally fraudulent business taxes will also be available, the unbelievably gullible and naive Trump believers will come face to face with reality as they thumb desperately through their encyclopedia of excuses searching for an obscure loophole.

Capital gains are taxed at 30% Stock options are not taxed until sold, dividends are somewhere around the 35% marks on tax also. The man's personal net worth dropped by more than a billion dollars during his Presidency and you are complaining he cited the losses on his taxes.

How Well Has Trump "Rendered to Caesar?"

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