How Well Has Trump "Rendered to Caesar?"

[chevyontheriver]

In regards to the title, I don't think "...render unto Caesar..." meant "pay your taxes." In fact, Jesus' words would probably have been undertood by the devout or Torah-observant Jews in his audience Jesus telling them NOT to pay the tribute tax to Caesar (while being understood by a the Roman or non-Torah-studied in the audience to be ambiguous).

Interesting. And yet Jesus did have Peter find a fish with a coin in it's mouth to pay the taxes owed.

 

[Fantine]

In regards to the title, I don't think "...render unto Caesar..." meant "pay your taxes." In fact, Jesus' words would probably have been undertood by the devout or Torah-observant Jews in his audience Jesus telling them NOT to pay the tribute tax to Caesar (while being understood by a the Roman or non-Torah-studied in the audience to be ambiguous).

Guess that's why I am grateful my faith does not interpret the Bible literally.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Guess that's why I am grateful my faith does not interpret the Bible literally.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean or how or why this particular passage should be either "literal" or "figurative." Those things are neither genres nor methods that I recognize. I'm just going with the author's intent using a historical-grammatical method - just like the RCC commentaries I read.

 

[Fantine]

If the Bible is meant to be relevant to future generations, then "Caesar" must be adapted to future generations and cultures.

One can live in a country led by someone they disrespect. Not too long ago i did. I still paid my taxes.

 

[Aldebaran]

If the Bible is meant to be relevant to future generations, then "Caesar" must be adapted to future generations and cultures.

One can live in a country led by someone they disrespect. Not too long ago i did. I still paid my taxes.

One can also utilize the tax code to take whatever credits they're entitled to, and not be in the wrong for it.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Interesting. And yet Jesus did have Peter find a fish with a coin in it's mouth to pay the taxes owed.

Sure. I have a couple of thoughts on Matt 17:24-27 too, as I think you're correct to point out Jesus also comments on taxes there.

For one, it's not clear what a "double drachma tax" is and there's no reason to assume it's the same as the "tribute tax" to Caesar. Secondly, Jesus seems to be paying the temple tax (v 24) so that presumably the double drachma tax is simply the same as the temple tax - but these are not the same as the tribute tax to Caesar (which is the question during Jesus' last week to which he says "...render to Caesar...") Third, though he is paying the temple tax, Jesus' question to Peter asks a theoretical question about taxes in general and the tribute tax to Caesar specifically. In Peter's response and Jesus' instruction, Jesus seems to indicate that he is not obligated to pay these taxes ("the sons are free") but he pays the temple tax anyway, not because he thought he was obligated, but not to cause offense. He does not pay the tribute tax in this passage and he indicates that he didn't think he was obligated to pay either the tribute tax nor temple tax anyway.

FWIW, there was already an intramural Jewish debate at the time on whether or not the temple tax was required by the Torah, so on the temple tax he probably was well within current debate. For example, the Qumran community thought Jewish males only had to pay the temple tax once in a lifetime, rather than regularly (4Q 159:6-7) as well as other Rabbinic sources that disputed the obligation to pay the temple tax (m. Shek 1.4). Given this, Jesus thinking he wasn't obligated to pay the temple tax isn't really controversial as he was engaging in a [then] current debate.

But still in this passage, Jesus already indicates that he doesn't think he's obligated to pay the tribute tax to Rome either, which may drive his opponents question during his last week. He had a reputation for rejecting the obligation to pay the tribute tax to Caesar, which could be particularly dangerous.

 

[Yekcidmij]

If the Bible is meant to be relevant to future generations, then "Caesar" must be adapted to future generations and cultures.

One can live in a country led by someone they disrespect. Not too long ago i did. I still paid my taxes.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying that you shouldn't pay taxes. I'm disputing a particular text.

 

[RoBo1988]

Allow me to interject Romans 13:6 Although, the NIV says the authorities "give their full time to governing" and I would say, they spend more time fundraising.
Our Pastor, a couple weeks ago said that "Pharaoh is never going to let you get ahead" I cannot remember the context of the statement, but it is true: Our representatives, set it up that those who play along, benefit, and the majority of their supporters receive a pittance.
Example: last summer my wife and I spent a large sum of money on replacement windows. They were badly needed in our 100+ year old home. You always hear of the government boasting of "energy tax credits" for improvements. The tax credit for energy efficient windows? $600-not enough to pay for one window.
Meanwhile these people speak of "billions" and "trillions" like it's pocket change to them.
"For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have born(e) the cost"*
-Fmr. President Donald J. Trump (* taken from a ABC News transcript where it was written "born" and not "borne")

 

[Fantine]

"For too long, a small group in our nation's capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have born the cost"
-Fmr. President Donald J. Trump

And former President Trump's purpose was what? To reap some rewards---along with the 1% who got huge tax breaks--while we bore the cost?

 

[RoBo1988]

And former President Trump's purpose was what? To reap some rewards---along with the 1% who got huge tax breaks--while we bore the cost?

The DJT quote is simply used to show the frustration, many working-class people(like myself-I have worked in skilled trades for over 40 years) have with the federal government, and why they sent him to Washington D.C.
Considering that Democrat, and Republican, as well as 95% of the news media fought him every step of the way(they talked of impeachment, 16 minutes after he was inaugurated), I'd say he at least opened some eyes to the overstuffed beast, that is the federal government.

 

[First Age]

Satan loves money talk he is all about wealth

 

[RoBo1988]

Satan loves money talk he is all about wealth

Yep.

12 DC-Area Billionaires Make the Forbes List of America’s Richest People - Washingtonian

Forbes on Tuesday released its 2021 Forbes 400 list, a ranking of the richest Americans. The combined net worth of the top 20 people on the list is $1.8 trillion. That number includes Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos, who has claimed the spot of the richest person in America for the fourth time in a

www.washingtonian.com

However...
" He(Jesus) discussed the topic of money more often than He spoke of faith and prayer combined"

Why Does Jesus Talk about Money so Often? - Jesus Film Project

It’s almost alarming how much Jesus talks about money. He discussed the topic of money more often than He spoke of faith…

www.jesusfilm.org