Hmmm: FBI returns Trump passports that never appeared on search inventory

Vylo said:

It is indicative of general behavior. Police are more violent outside their prescribed duties than the general populace and break those sets of laws at a high rate. That shows a general disregard for the law and people's safety.

As for what goes on in those raids... well that is the thing. They don't keep good records, so it can be hard to tell, which is.... convenient to say the least. you can get some idea of the scope from stories like this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/no-knock-warrants-judges/

You can also get an idea about the issues with data on police misbehavior from here:

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/249850.pdf

Basically, the police aren't keeping data on when they perform badly, and it is hard for others to monitor it. With no central database or monitoring effort you have to either browse media reports or contact hundreds if not thousands of precincts that are unlikely to be forthcoming data.

But we see the stories constantly. You can't have a stream of this bad behavior coming in daily without there being a statistically significant amount of bad behavior that clearly marks a systemic problem.

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What do statistics say about the number of black men who commit murder compared to their percentage of the population? Is it fair then to judge all black people by these statistics? Statistically they commit more crimes. Is this a systemic problem?
It's not fair to judge all by the actions of a few, whether you're talking about someone's race or their profession. There is corruption in law enforcement. There are also good people who do their jobs the best they can. What about the FBI? Do you think they could be politically motivated or do you think they're above that?

durangodawood said:

Before the Bible no one ever would have thought to make murder illegal.

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Apart from all those pre Christian civilisations, obviously.

BPPLEE said:

What do statistics say about the number of black men who commit murder compared to their percentage of the population? Is it fair then to judge all black people by these statistics? Statistically they commit more crimes. Is this a systemic problem?
It's not fair to judge all by the actions of a few, whether you're talking about someone's race or their profession. There is corruption in law enforcement. There are also good people who do their jobs the best they can. What about the FBI? Do you think they could be politically motivated or do you think they're above that?

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It isn't a few. You don't just have a few and have whole police departments disbanded. You are talking departments with sometimes hundreds of cops nearly all part of the corruption.

Comparing this to a race of people is deeply flawed. You don't choose your race. People choose to become cops. You hold police to a much higher standard because it is necessary for society to function.

Vylo said:

It isn't a few. You don't just have a few and have whole police departments disbanded. You are talking departments with sometimes hundreds of cops nearly all part of the corruption.

Comparing this to a race of people is deeply flawed. You don't choose your race. People choose to become cops. You hold police to a much higher standard because it is necessary for society to function.

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I'm comparing statistics. You don't want to acknowledge them when they don't support your position. And you didn't answer my question about the FBI. No corruption there ?

Ana the Ist said:

Oh wow....remain in Mexico is in effect?

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Mostly, pending the outcome of the SCOTUS ruling.
U.S. will resume 'Remain in Mexico' policy for asylum-seekers
https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/072122zr_7k47.pdf

There must be tens of thousands of people awaiting their asylum hearings in Mexico then. I'm curious who are these people getting off the buses in DC?

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Dunno - non-asylum seekers?

Ana the Ist said:

Substantially, open borders refers to two sorts of conditions....

1. When by executive action or legislation immigration policies don't restrict anyone from legally crossing the border.
2. If executive action restricts immigration law enforcement to the point where it can be easily ignored without significant consequences.

You would be right to say we haven't substantially changed immigration laws....

But can you be certain #2 is not true?

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The 2 million people apprehended and kicked out last year would say that 2 isn't true. Unless you want to pay to house that many more prisoners?

RocksInMyHead said:

The 2 million people apprehended and kicked out last year would say that 2 isn't true. Unless you want to pay to house that many more prisoners?

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Got any numbers on how many were given orders to appear and released into our country? An estimate of how many came in undetected? We don't house them we let them go and ask them to come to court.

Yttrium said:

Nope. Making murder illegal solely because it violates a commandment in the Bible would be imposing Christian beliefs on others. But there are plenty of non-religious reasons to make murder illegal. (For one thing, we don't wanna get killed.)

And I note that this has nothing to do with Trump's passports, so it's time we moved on.

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So my view is the defenseless human life in the womb doesn't want to get killed either so we can with a non religious reason be against abortion. I have never heard a coherent Christian, non - Christian or any other reason, defense for the slaughter of human babies in the womb.I am sure someone with a warped sense of God, religion, or basic human decency will disagree but we will always have the ignorant among us.

Postvieww said:

No you can't, because Biden din't serve either. Both Biden and Trump received 5 draft deferments.

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You'll have to explain your reasoning here, because as is it makes zero sense :

A: Why would [Trump] flee the country he trying to save from tyranny?
B: He has a history of running from conflict - look at his lack of military service
A: But what about Biden?
B: Huh?

Vylo said:

The Bible is mostly mute on abortion aside for instructions on doing it, children are already "sexualized, I'm not sure what that is about, there is no "shredding of the constitution" going on, your brave policemen stood 400 strong outside a classroom for over an hour while children died to a lone gunman, You shouldn't have to worry about the IRS if you are honest (though we need to untangle our tax codes, but that's a separate issue, the bible tells you to treat foreigners as though they are citizens when they take refuge with you.

So biblically, you are better off, this administration is doing a better job adhering to scripture, but then again, we should base our government off empirical facts rather than a many hundreds of times edited 2,000+ year old book.

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Vylo said:

So biblically, you are better off, this administration is doing a better job adhering to scripture, but then again, we should base our government off empirical facts rather than a many hundreds of times edited 2,000+ year old book.

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The above statement tell us all anyone needs to know about the opinion expressed in the post. Thank you for the information.

KCfromNC said:

You'll have to explain your reasoning here, because as is it makes zero sense :

A: Why would [Trump] flee the country he trying to save from tyranny?
B: He has a history of running from conflict - look at his lack of military service
A: But what about Biden?
B: Huh?

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A. Someone in a post expressed a desire for Trump to flee the country I responded why would he want to flee a country he was trying to save from tyranny
B. This statement is laughable! He was the most attacked, maligned, vilified, lied about President of our modern day maybe ever. But he is still fighting for this country. His lack of military service means what? Shall we rate every politician on wether or not they served? If so Biden is in the same boat with Trump.
A. What about him? Well what I think is he has in a very short period of time wrecked our economy, took us from being energy independent to high gas prices and begging for oil abroad.He is mentally incompetent to hold office, his own party is turning on him. I could go on but you get the point. Oh yea is in office through fraud, he is a puppet of the left probably Obama pulling the strings. Anything you care to know about him?
B. "Huh?" Did I miss anything?

Ana the Ist said:

Substantially, open borders refers to two sorts of conditions....

1. When by executive action or legislation immigration policies don't restrict anyone from legally crossing the border.
2. If executive action restricts immigration law enforcement to the point where it can be easily ignored without significant consequences.

You would be right to say we haven't substantially changed immigration laws....

But can you be certain #2 is not true?

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Do you have a citation for 2?

BPPLEE said:

Got any numbers on how many were given orders to appear and released into our country?

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According to CBP, in 2021, they expelled ~2/3 of all migrants encountered at the border under Title 42, which the Biden administration has kept in effect. Of the 1.66 million encounters, only ~625,000 were not immediately expelled - the majority of those being family units or unaccompanied minors. Those not expelled under Title 42 were processed under Title 8. Title 8 proceedings include expedited removal (no court date required) or the asylum process - which is required by international humanitarian law. Asylum applicants can either be returned to Mexico to await their hearings under the Migrant Protection Protocols (aka "remain in Mexico") or be allowed to remain in the US in the mean time. Under the current procedures, asylum applicants in the El Paso border region are processed under the MPP.

CBP does not provide a breakdown in how Title 8 apprehensions are processed, as far as I can find.

An estimate of how many came in undetected?

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I doubt that it's possible to obtain an accurate estimate for this. And it's not really relevant unless you're trying to suggest that the administration is ordering CBP to not do its job - which would be a pretty serious allegation that would require more than just circumstantial evidence.

We don't house them we let them go and ask them to come to court.

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This is for asylum seekers, and currently, only those who are apprehended outside of the El Paso border region.

RocksInMyHead said:

According to CBP, in 2021, they expelled ~2/3 of all migrants encountered at the border under Title 42, which the Biden administration has kept in effect. Of the 1.66 million encounters, only ~625,000 were not immediately expelled - the majority of those being family units or unaccompanied minors. Those not expelled under Title 42 were processed under Title 8. Title 8 proceedings include expedited removal (no court date required) or the asylum process - which is required by international humanitarian law. Asylum applicants can either be returned to Mexico to await their hearings under the Migrant Protection Protocols (aka "remain in Mexico") or be allowed to remain in the US in the mean time. Under the current procedures, asylum applicants in the El Paso border region are processed under the MPP.

CBP does not provide a breakdown in how Title 8 apprehensions are processed, as far as I can find.


I doubt that it's possible to obtain an accurate estimate for this.


This is for asylum seekers, and currently, only those who are apprehended outside of the El Paso border region.

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The numbers increased drastically in 2022

BPPLEE said:

The numbers increased drastically in 2022

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And? Did anything change policy-wise to cause that? Or is simply that more people want to come to the US?

The perception from migrants that the Biden administration is more permissive to immigration is not supported by the realities of policy that exist. Under Biden, Title 42 has remained in effect, and while he has tried to end the Migrant Protection Protocols, he has not succeeded in doing so. Moreover, neither of those policies existed prior to 2019, and apprehensions at the border were at their lowest point since the '70s from ~2010-2018.

The reality is that illegal immigration trends have little to do with US policy (though Title 42 has increased recidivism, since it provides no penalties for multiple offenses). 2019 - with Trump as president - had the highest number of border apprehensions since 2006. 2021 and 2022 are higher, but not because of any real policy changes. Rather, socio-economic conditions in South America, Central America, and the Caribbean have significantly declined over the past couple years, and the addition of the war in Ukraine has increased the number of migrants from Eastern Europe as well.

RocksInMyHead said:

And? Did anything change policy-wise to cause that? Or is simply that more people want to come to the US?

The perception from migrants that the Biden administration is more permissive to immigration is not supported by the realities of policy that exist. Under Biden, Title 42 has remained in effect, and while he has tried to end the Migrant Protection Protocols, he has not succeeded in doing so. Moreover, neither of those policies existed prior to 2019, and apprehensions at the border were at their lowest point since the '70s from ~2010-2018.

The reality is that illegal immigration trends have little to do with US policy (though Title 42 has increased recidivism, since it provides no penalties for multiple offenses). 2019 - with Trump as president - had the highest number of border apprehensions since 2006. 2021 and 2022 are higher, but not because of any real policy changes. Rather, socio-economic conditions in South America, Central America, and the Caribbean have significantly declined over the past couple years, and the addition of the war in Ukraine has increased the number of migrants from Eastern Europe as well.

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Just listen to these migrants when they are interviewed then you'll know why they're coming in record numbers.

BPPLEE said:

Just listen to these migrants when they are interviewed then you'll know why they're coming in record numbers.

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How are the democrats responsible for what the migrants think?

RocksInMyHead said:

How are the democrats responsible for what the migrants think?

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They are all thanking the President they may not even know what a Democrat is

BPPLEE said:

They are all thanking the President they may not even know what a Democrat is

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1. "All"?
2. Thanking him for what? He hasn't done anything.

RocksInMyHead said:

1. "All"?
2. Thanking him for what? He hasn't done anything.

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They sure think he has