What is the difficulty of getting into heaven?

Brightfame52 said:

No it doesnt. Thats self-righteousness, God not imputing sin, and God imputing righteousness has nothing whatsoever a sinner does, its solely based on Christ !

Click to expand...

Why on earth, or in heaven, or anywhere else, would God-given righteousness, the righteousness He promised but that the law could not give, amount to self-righteousness??? It's just the opposite, in fact. Sin is all about the self-and remaining in sin is certainly no cause for applauding oneself.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." Rom 6:15-17

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:20-22

And here's the ironic thing: the church of Christ, east and west, has always seen this gift as given, not merely imputed. And that this gift must be embraced, "invested", acted upon, expressed, increased, etc.

fhansen said:

Why on earth, or in heaven, or anywhere else, would God-given righteousness, the righteousness He promised but that the law could not give, amount to self-righteousness??? It's just the opposite, in fact. Sin is all about the self-and remaining in sin is certainly no cause for applauding oneself.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." Rom 6:15-17

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:20-22

And here's the ironic thing: the church of Christ, east and west, has always seen this gift as given, not merely imputed. And that this gift must be embraced, "invested", acted upon, expressed, increased, etc.

Click to expand...

You all over the place, don't see your point

Brightfame52 said:

You all over the place, don't see your point

Click to expand...

oh, I've been quite consistent. You don't seem to want to see the point. But, again, it's only God's word.

1) Only God can justify man. We have no justice, no righteousness on our own, apart from Him.
2) Justification consists of more that forgiveness and remission of sin, more than a declared righteousness or a positional change only in the eyes of God, but includes real change, righteousness given not merely imputed.
3) We must now walk in this new righteousness as we remain in Him, under grace, living by the Spirit. Otherwise we will still earn ourselves...death. We're children of God; we must now live like it-and we finally have the ability to do so, the right way, His way. We can lose our justified state by living unjustly.

New thread made today, on sin, or not to sin here in salvation forum by me.

Brightfame52 said:

Yes you relying on your own righteousness. The person of faith rests in Christs righteousness imputed as a free gift by grace. Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

This gift of righteousness fars excels your self righteousness, and God will accept it over your self righteousness. Good luck with that in the day of Judgment my friend

Click to expand...

The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where them doing the work of driving it does not detract from the fact that the opportunity to drive it was completely given to them as a gift. In a similar way, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3), which comes through expressing His nature, and the free gift God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the experience of knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life. So for example, the gift of knowing God through expressing His righteousness in obedience to His law is the content of His gift of being imputed with Christ's righteousness, which is in accordance with how Christ expressed His righteous through his obedience to God's law. Our salvation is about actually being made to be like Christ, not just being counted as being like him while we are actually are not.

You're great at insisting that I am relying God's instructions is relying on my own righteousness, but you're still refusing to explain why relying on God's instructions is not relying on Him, so you're not giving credit where it is due. Again, do you think that God wants His instructions to be obeyed? Or do you think that God misled us through His instructs, so we shouldn't follow Him? God's righteousness is not greater than His instructions for how to act in accordance with His righteousness. In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so it is not clear to me why you are acting like things aren't going to go well for those who are doers of the law in judgement day and instead are going to go well for those to refuse to be doers of the law.

Soyeong said:

In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so it is not clear to me why you are acting like things aren't going to go well for those who are doers of the law in judgement day and instead are going to go well for those to refuse to be doers of the law.

Click to expand...

Not the hearers of the law, but the hearers of faith receive the Spirit Soyeong. ( to then fulfil the righteousness and love of Christ, as all glory is to Him and none to anyone else.)



Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

servant7777 said:

Not the hearers of the law, but the hearers of faith receive the Spirit Soyeong. ( to then fulfil the righteousness and love of Christ, as all glory is to Him and none to anyone else.)

Click to expand...

Do you agree or disagree that it is not the hearers, but the doers of the law who will be justified? And that if we want to be justified, then we should therefore be a doers of the law?

In Acts 3:31, our faith upholds God's law, so the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed as obedience to it, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to Him, yet you want seek to abolish God's law by faith rather than uphold it, so you speak about having faith in God while you reject it through your actions.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, and in John 14:15-17, the Spirit is given to those who love Jesus and obey his commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however in Galatians 3:1-2, Paul denied that we receive the Spirit by obeying works of the law, therefore the phrase "works of the law" does not refer to obedience to anything that God has commanded.

Soyeong said:

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, and in John 14:15-17, the Spirit is given to those who love Jesus and obey his commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however in Galatians 3:1-2, Paul denied that we receive the Spirit by obeying works of the law, therefore the phrase "works of the law" does not refer to obedience to anything that God has commanded.

Click to expand...

If you read Acts 5 faithfully ( like I tried) you might see that God commanded Peter to go and speak all the words of this life ( for the faith of Christ)

Then Peter spoke to the world, who had killed Christ, ( THE APOSTLES OBEY GOD NOT MAN)

Because they commanded them TO NOT OBEY GOD.

But God gives the Holy Ghost to those who obey Him, not given after they obey, but given so they obey.


Acts 5:20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

Acts 3:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.




STOP PUTTING A YOKE AND TEMPTING GOD, WE BELIEVE BY THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WE ARE SAVED, OUR HEARTS ARE PURIFIED STRICTLY BY FAITH, SO YOUR ATTEMPT IS BLASPHEMY ONLY AND IT IS REBUKED...



Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

servant7777 said:

If you read Acts 5 faithfully ( like I tried) you might see that God commanded Peter to go and speak all the words of this life ( for the faith of Christ)

Then Peter spoke to the world, who had killed Christ, ( THE APOSTLES OBEY GOD NOT MAN)

Because they commanded them TO NOT OBEY GOD.

But God gives the Holy Ghost to those who obey Him, not given after they obey, but given so they obey.


Acts 5:20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

Acts 3:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.




STOP PUTTING A YOKE AND TEMPTING GOD, WE BELIEVE BY THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WE ARE SAVED, OUR HEARTS ARE PURIFIED STRICTLY BY FAITH, SO YOUR ATTEMPT IS BLASPHEMY ONLY AND IT IS REBUKED...



Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Click to expand...

If you agree that the Spirit is give so that we will obey God, then you should be in favor obeying God rather than speaking against obeying Him, against the Spirit, against grace, and against faith, and shouldn't be rebuking yourself with your own words.

Soyeong said:

If you agree that the Spirit is give so that we will obey God, then you should be in favor obeying God rather than speaking against obeying Him, against the Spirit, against grace, and against faith, and shouldn't be rebuking yourself with your own words.

Click to expand...

The Spirit is given so we obey God ( the Apostles obeyed) but the Spirit is received through grace, when we hear of faith.

The Apostles also were chosen of God, and shown everything they need to see, to believe.

They were not shown the law, they were shown the parables of the Kingdom, and the grace of Christ doing good far better than we see in any law.

The Apostles concluded that Christ has the words of eternal life and thy are sure God sent Him, tha He is the Christ the Son of the living God ( this is faith)



John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Soyeong said:

If you agree that the Spirit is give so that we will obey God, then you should be in favor obeying God rather than speaking against obeying Him, against the Spirit, against grace, and against faith, and shouldn't be rebuking yourself with your own words.

Click to expand...

If you have nothing wise to say, why speak?


You do see my many threads showing how we believe in the light and Gods love is perfected in us, if not, then you sure are one sided.

If I am not clear, you cannot show law observance as the way to faith on a Christian members place.

They also wont receive the Spirit, by hearing of law, but by hearing of faith.

If you wanted god for them, go and read the Gospels until you believe all that faith is told Christ having the words of eternal life) and come and speak that to all. ( as I do)

Other than that, if you want to be stubborn and ignore how I just corrected you, then sty as you are, and I will as I am.

servant7777 said:

The Spirit is given so we obey God ( the Apostles obeyed) but the Spirit is received through grace, when we hear of faith.

The Apostles also were chosen of God, and shown everything they need to see, to believe.

They were not shown the law, they were shown the parables of the Kingdom, and the grace of Christ doing good far better than we see in any law.

The Apostles concluded that Christ has the words of eternal life and thy are sure God sent Him, tha He is the Christ the Son of the living God ( this is faith)



John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Click to expand...

You say you agree that the Spirit is given so we obey God, but then you turn around and keep insisting against obeying God, which is extremely unwise. In Acts 2:38, when Peter told his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin, God's law is how they knew what sin is, so he was calling for them to obey it. In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and again God's law is how they knew what sin is, yet you insist on speaking against the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, yet you insist on speaking against the grace of Christ. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matter of the law, yet you speak against faith. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter into eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, and you insist that he has the words of eternal life, yet you speak against obeying God's commandments, and thus also against eternal life and believing in him.

Soyeong said:

You say you agree that the Spirit is given so we obey God, but then you turn around and keep insisting against obeying God, which is extremely unwise. In Acts 2:38, when Peter told his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin, God's law is how they knew what sin is, so he was calling for them to obey it. In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and again God's law is how they knew what sin is, yet you insist on speaking against the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, yet you insist on speaking against the grace of Christ. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matter of the law, yet you speak against faith. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter into eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, and you insist that he has the words of eternal life, yet you speak against obeying God's commandments, and thus also against eternal life.

Click to expand...

You are rebuked, you cant put a yoke of law nor even speak of it.



Soyeong: "In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God"





If you read Acts 5 faithfully ( like I tried) you might see that God commanded Peter to go and speak all the words of this life ( for the faith of Christ)

Then Peter spoke to the world, who had killed Christ, ( THE APOSTLES OBEY GOD NOT MAN)

Because they commanded them TO NOT OBEY GOD.

But God gives the Holy Ghost to those who obey Him, not given after they obey, but given so they obey.


Acts 5:20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

Acts 3:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.




STOP PUTTING A YOKE AND TEMPTING GOD, WE BELIEVE BY THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WE ARE SAVED, OUR HEARTS ARE PURIFIED STRICTLY BY FAITH, SO YOUR ATTEMPT IS BLASPHEMY ONLY AND IT IS REBUKED...



Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.





We are not skipping around what you are ignoring, you ignore and you are a heretic, and this is for you then..


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

servant7777 said:

You are rebuked, you cant put a yoke of law nor even speak of it.

Click to expand...

You excel at taking verses out of context and trying to apply them to me, but it is easy to see through.

Soyeong: "In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God"





If you read Acts 5 faithfully ( like I tried) you might see that God commanded Peter to go and speak all the words of this life ( for the faith of Christ)

Then Peter spoke to the world, who had killed Christ, ( THE APOSTLES OBEY GOD NOT MAN)

Because they commanded them TO NOT OBEY GOD.

But God gives the Holy Ghost to those who obey Him, not given after they obey, but given so they obey.


Acts 5:20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

Acts 3:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Click to expand...

None of this changes that Acts 5:32 says that the Spirit has been given to those who obey God and you join with them in speaking against obeying God.

STOP PUTTING A YOKE AND TEMPTING GOD, WE BELIEVE BY THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WE ARE SAVED, OUR HEARTS ARE PURIFIED STRICTLY BY FAITH, SO YOUR ATTEMPT IS BLASPHEMY ONLY AND IT IS REBUKED...



Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Click to expand...

These verses should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God, but if you think that is what they were doing, then we should obey God rather than man.

We are not skipping around what you are ignoring, you ignore and you are a heretic, and this is for you then..


Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Click to expand...

In Titus 3:1-8, Paul exhorted them to do good works in obedience to God, so verse 9 should not be interpreted as speaking against those who exhort people to do good works in obedience to God. Unlike you, I don't ignore what the Bible says, I just don't interpret God's word as speaking against obeying God's word.

Soyeong said:

The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where them doing the work of driving it does not detract from the fact that the opportunity to drive it was completely given to them as a gift. In a similar way, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3), which comes through expressing His nature, and the free gift God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the experience of knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life. So for example, the gift of knowing God through expressing His righteousness in obedience to His law is the content of His gift of being imputed with Christ's righteousness, which is in accordance with how Christ expressed His righteous through his obedience to God's law. Our salvation is about actually being made to be like Christ, not just being counted as being like him while we are actually are not.

You're great at insisting that I am relying God's instructions is relying on my own righteousness, but you're still refusing to explain why relying on God's instructions is not relying on Him, so you're not giving credit where it is due. Again, do you think that God wants His instructions to be obeyed? Or do you think that God misled us through His instructs, so we shouldn't follow Him? God's righteousness is not greater than His instructions for how to act in accordance with His righteousness. In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so it is not clear to me why you are acting like things aren't going to go well for those who are doers of the law in judgement day and instead are going to go well for those to refuse to be doers of the law.

Click to expand...

Wrong, The free gift is legal, nothing done by the recipient of the gift of righteousness, just like nothing was done for the condemnation previously except what Adam done as their representative head.

Ypu just hell bent on your own righteousness and despise the Imputed Righteousness of Christ. Good luck with that at Judgment, Be forewarned, Acts 17:31

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

His Righteousness will be the Standard, good luck with yours

BTW All of the people that shall be clothed in Christs Imputed righteousness, they are legally before God doers of the Law and Justified Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Christ was a hearer and doer of the Law for His People.

Brightfame52 said:

Wrong, The free gift is legal, nothing done by the recipient of the gift of righteousness, just like nothing was done for the condemnation previously except what Adam done as their representative head.

Click to expand...

Just because something is given as a gift does not mean that nothing is done to receive it. For example, someone could give you a gift and place it on your table, but in order to receive it, you would still need to walk over to the table, unwrap it, and open it, which does nothing to detract from it being completely given to you as a gift. Likewise, I gave an example of how to experience of doing something can be given as a gift, so please interact with what I said instead insisting that the recipient does nothing.

Ypu just hell bent on your own righteousness and despise the Imputed Righteousness of Christ. Good luck with that at Judgment, Be forewarned, Acts 17:31

Click to expand...

Please explain why relying on what God has instructed is relying on myself instead of on God instead of just insisting that I am hell bent on my one righteousness. Also please interact with the fact that Christ expressed his righteousness by living in obedience to God's law instead of insisting that being imputed with his righteousness has nothing to do with the way that we live.

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

His Righteousness will be the Standard, good luck with yours

Click to expand...

God gave His law to teach us about what the standard of His righteousness is, not so that we can establish our own.

BTW All of the people that shall be clothed in Christs Imputed righteousness, they are legally before God doers of the Law and Justified Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Christ was a hearer and doer of the Law for His People.

Click to expand...

You very noticeably did not quote the Bible when you claimed that Christ was a hearer and doers of the Law for His people. Please interact with the fact that Jesus spent his ministry calling for people to repent and teaching obedience to God's law, not telling them that they don't need to repent and obey because he is going to do that for them. Please interact with the fact that the Bible does not say that we are legally counted as obeying God's law without needing to obey it. In Romans 2:13, Paul is clearly encouraging them to not just be hearers, but also doers of the law. Please interact with the fact that in Romans 2:6-7, Paul said that those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life, not that we don't need to persist in doing good because Christ did it for us. It is an incredible gift to be able to do good, but you want nothing to do with God's gift. Also please answer the question about whether you think that God His instructions to be obeyed.

It is alright to trust in Christ as Savior and observe the moral laws of the OT, however if you begin to see yourself as more righteous then others because of observing the OT laws, then you are in trouble, because your faith in justification is not just in Christ, it is also in your ability to keep the OT law...not a good thing.

frank sears said:

It is alright to trust in Christ as Savior and observe the moral laws of the OT, however if you begin to see yourself as more righteous then others because of observing the OT laws, then you are in trouble, because your faith in justification is not just in Christ, it is also in your ability to keep the OT law...not a good thing.

Click to expand...

That's right, and to the extent that we love as He loves, because He loves, and because He gives us that love, then we obey...without needing to even hear the law, without desire for compensation, without pride involved.

fhansen said:

That's right, and to the extent that we love as He loves, because He loves, and because He gives us that love, then we obey...without needing to even hear the law, without desire for compensation, without pride involved.

Click to expand...

Love is in deed and truth.

Jesus is love, His deed of love is to lay His life down, ( or we do not perceive what the love of God is, to believe in.)

We show we believe in that love of Christ when we also lay our lives down for the brothers and others.

If we keep our life we lose it, or we can lose our life to find it again. ( laying our life down as Christ is when we believe in the love of Christ.)

The word of God gives us faith to follow Christ, our own words take us away from that. ( a man hears another man, a man of God hears God.)





Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.

Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.