What Israel is Acts 1:6 meaning and how does that get fulfilled?

DavidPT said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies.

Let's assume the NT church is what is meant by Israel here. That should mean the text is to be understood like such.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to the NT church?

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

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I've always assumed that .. at that time .. (because it was 10 days before the Day of Pentecost and they asked this question when Jesus was in their midst).. they actually believed the Messiah was going to literally destroy the Roman occupation of Judea and restore the Kingdom of Judea.

When they asked that question, they also had no idea Jesus was about to ascend into heaven (imagine their shock).

Jesus merely "corrected" their question by reminding them of what He had told them 42 days earlier:

Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.

Acts 1
8 But you shall receive power, the Holy Spirit coming upon you. And you shall be witnesses to Me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
9 And saying these things, as they watched, He was taken up. And a cloud received Him out of their sight.

They would have known what Zechariah 14:4 says.

And after the Day of Pentecost - 10 days later - they received a lot more insight and understanding regarding the Lord's plan and the prophecies, than they had ever had before.

That's how I explain it away in my mind anyway.

DavidPT said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies.

Let's assume the NT church is what is meant by Israel here. That should mean the text is to be understood like such.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to the NT church?

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

Click to expand...

From what I understand, the Apostles were still thinking the Kingdom was on earth when in fact Jesus Christ of Nazareth was speaking of the Kingdom of God which is not on earth.
Blessings

DavidPT said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies.

Let's assume the NT church is what is meant by Israel here. That should mean the text is to be understood like such.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to the NT church?

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

Click to expand...

The kingdom of God of OT Israel. The disciples had heard Jesus' declaration to the Jewish leaders:

Matthew 21
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Hence the disciples' question:

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

DavidPT said:

The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies ...

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

Click to expand...

Yes, that word, 'again' is significant. And notice - Jesus does not rebut the suggestion; he simply tells the disciples to leave the times and seasons to God and get on with the job of bringing the gospel to the rest of the world.

However, it is important to understand that a restored Israel is not meant for re-establishing the old covenant. Neither is it for a literal millennium of national power and glory. I believe that God has already bought Israel back for a reason. Their nationhood is necessary because it sets the stage for a revival forged in the furnace of affliction and war. In other words, they are back in their ancient land because God is positioning them for a second opportunity to accept Messiah.

Then the fullness of Israel (Jew and Gentile) will be complete and Christ will return and gather them up.

Maria Billingsley said:

From what I understand, the Apostles were still thinking the Kingdom was on earth when in fact Jesus Christ of Nazareth was speaking of the Kingdom of God which is not on earth.
Blessings

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But Jesus never corrected them. He simply tells the disciples to leave the times and seasons to God and get on with the job of bringing the gospel to the rest of the world.

Christian Gedge said:

But Jesus never corrected them. He simply tells the disciples to leave the times and seasons to God and get on with the job of bringing the gospel to the rest of the world.

Click to expand...

They knew after they received the Holy Spirit.

DavidPT said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies.

Let's assume the NT church is what is meant by Israel here. That should mean the text is to be understood like such.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to the NT church?

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

Click to expand...

Are they talking about an earthly kingdom or a heavenly kingdom?

DavidPT said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies.

Let's assume the NT church is what is meant by Israel here. That should mean the text is to be understood like such.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to the NT church?

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

Click to expand...

No, that is not how the text should read. The disciples were asking about the nation of Israel and not the spiritual Israel of God (the church). Remember, Jesus said this to the chief priests of Israel and the Pharisees:

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

I believe the disciples' question was in relation to what Jesus said here. He said the kingdom of God would be taken away from them "and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof". The disciples probably took Him to be saying that the kingdom of God would be taken away from Israel and given to some other nation even though that's not really what He was saying. He was saying the kingdom would only be taken away from people like the chief priests and Pharisees (not from all Israelites) and given to a holy nation of true believers which are referenced here:

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This "holy nation" that Peter referenced here was made up of Jew and Gentile Christians. So, the nation that the kingdom of God was given to was the holy nation of Christ followers, which are the Israel of God (Gal 6:15-16, Romans 9:6-8).

At the time that the disciples asked Jesus the question recorded in Acts 1:6, they did not yet have a full understanding of the kingdom of God. That did not happen until the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came to dwell in them and started teaching them the deeper things of God. They did not yet understand at that point when they asked Jesus the question that the kingdom of God would spread throughout the world and that's why Jesus answered them the way He did in verse 8. In that verse He indicated that the kingdom would not just be in Israel, but throughout the world and they would be the ones to bring it to the rest of the world.

So, even though the disciples likely had the nation of Israel in mind in Acts 1:6, Christ's response was based on His knowledge that the kingdom was not just an earthly kingdom based in Israel, but rather a global spiritual kingdom that would grow first starting in Jerusalem and then other parts of Israel and then would expand "unto the uttermost part of the earth".

The idea of a future earthly kingdom based in Israel is not at all what is being taught in Acts 1:6-8. It may be what the disciples had in mind at the time, but they were still mistaken in their understanding of some things at that point and would not fully understand those things until the Holy Spirit came to dwell in them and teach them.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Christian Gedge said:

Yes, that word, 'again' is significant. And notice - Jesus does not rebut the suggestion; he simply tells the disciples to leave the times and seasons to God and get on with the job of bringing the gospel to the rest of the world.

Click to expand...

I disagree. Just because He did not specifically tell them that their understanding of the kingdom of God was in error, doesn't mean that it wasn't. He corrected their understanding of the kingdom by what He said in verse 8. The kingdom would spread throughout the world, including Israel. They clearly did not understand that at that time which is why they asked what they did. He knew that they would understand the nature of the kingdom of God fully once the Holy Spirit came to dwell in them on the day of Pentecost, so He felt no need to criticize their understanding at the time and instead declared that the kingdom would not just be in Israel, but would expand throughout the world.

However, it is important to understand that a restored Israel is not meant for re-establishing the old covenant. Neither is it for a literal millennium of national power and glory. I believe that God has already bought Israel back for a reason. Their nationhood is necessary because it sets the stage for a revival forged in the furnace of affliction and war. In other words, they are back in their ancient land because God is positioning them for a second opportunity to accept Messiah.

Click to expand...

What does this mean? Haven't they all had an opportunity to accept Jesus for the past almost 2,000 years? Sure, they have. When a verse like 2 Peter 3:9 says that the Lord desires for all people to repent, does that not include Israelite people? When a verse like 1 Timothy 2:4 says that God desires for all people to be saved, does that not include all Israelite people?

Christian Gedge said:

But Jesus never corrected them. He simply tells the disciples to leave the times and seasons to God and get on with the job of bringing the gospel to the rest of the world.

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You're acting as if He told them to forget about Israel and "get on with the job of bringing the gospel to the rest of the world". No, He told them to first bring the gospel to Jerusalem and other parts of Israel before bringing it to the rest of the world. And many of them in Jerusalem and other parts of Israel were saved because of the preaching of the gospel by the disciples there.

Salvation for the people of Israel was not postponed to a much later time as you seem to believe. They were blinded in part in order for the gospel to go out to the Gentiles and then the plan was for the saved Gentiles to, in turn, bring the gospel to the Israelites (after the Israelite disciples first brought the gospel to them). That is a process that began long ago and continues to this day.

Spiritual Jew said:

I disagree. Just because He did not specifically tell them that their understanding of the kingdom of God was in error, doesn't mean that it wasn't. He corrected their understanding of the kingdom by what He said in verse 8. The kingdom would spread throughout the world, including Israel. They clearly did not understand that at that time which is why they asked what they did. He knew that they would understand the nature of the kingdom of God fully once the Holy Spirit came to dwell in them on the day of Pentecost, so He felt no need to criticize their understanding at the time and instead declared that the kingdom would not just be in Israel, but would expand throughout the world.

What does this mean? Haven't they all had an opportunity to accept Jesus for the past almost 2,000 years? Sure, they have. When a verse like 2 Peter 3:9 says that the Lord desires for all people to repent, does that not include Israelite people? When a verse like 1 Timothy 2:4 says that God desires for all people to be saved, does that not include all Israelite people?

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Israel was grafted out and will not be grafted back in. Until they believe in Jesus.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

klutedavid said:

Israel was grafted out and will not be grafted back in. Until they believe in Jesus.

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I assume you're referring to Romans 11 here. Why are you acting as if the entire nation was cut off? That is not the case. Paul said that a remnant was saved (Romans 11:5) and that he hoped that some more would be saved (Romans 11:14). If you read Romans 11 carefully, you should see that the plan was for the unbelieving Israelites to be cut off because of their unbelief and then for the believing Gentiles to be grafted in and to make the unbelieving Israelites jealous so that they would want to be grafted back in.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

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How does this verse support your claim?

Maria Billingsley said:

They knew after they received the Holy Spirit.

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Spiritual Jew said:

He knew that they would understand the nature of the kingdom of God fully once the Holy Spirit came to dwell in them on the day of Pentecost,

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The disciples asked a specific question and Jesus gave an equally specific answer. "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." Now you are telling me they got their answer after a mere 50 days? I agree wholeheartedly with the Amillennial teaching concerning the true nature of the kingdom of God. But I would remind you that many Amillennial teachers expect a latter day restoration of the Jews. Charles Hodge concerning Romans 9 says, “Israel, here, from the context, must mean the Jewish people, and all Israel, the whole nation. The Jews, as a people, are now rejected; as a people, they are to be restored.”

So, my position is with Dr. Hodge. I hope that you are generous enough to notice that I am not espousing dispensational futurism. I am simply saying that God has placed ethnic Israel in their original homeland because it sets the stage for a Messiah revival. I pray for them. Do you?

Christian Gedge said:

The disciples asked a specific question and Jesus gave an equally specific answer. "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." Now you are telling me they got their answer after a mere 50 days? I agree wholeheartedly with the Amillennial teaching concerning the true nature of the kingdom of God. But I would remind you that many Amillennial teachers expect a latter day restoration of the Jews. Charles Hodge concerning Romans 9 says, “Israel, here, from the context, must mean the Jewish people, and all Israel, the whole nation. The Jews, as a people, are now rejected; as a people, they are to be restored.”

So, my position is with Dr. Hodge. I hope that you are generous enough to notice that I am not espousing dispensational futurism. I am simply saying that God has placed ethnic Israel in their original homeland because it sets the stage for a Messiah revival. I pray for them. Do you?

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Thank you for engaging!

Christian Gedge said:

The disciples asked a specific question and Jesus gave an equally specific answer. "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." Now you are telling me they got their answer after a mere 50 days? I agree wholeheartedly with the Amillennial teaching concerning the true nature of the kingdom of God. But I would remind you that many Amillennial teachers expect a latter day restoration of the Jews. Charles Hodge concerning Romans 9 says, “Israel, here, from the context, must mean the Jewish people, and all Israel, the whole nation. The Jews, as a people, are now rejected; as a people, they are to be restored.”

So, my position is with Dr. Hodge. I hope that you are generous enough to notice that I am not espousing dispensational futurism. I am simply saying that God has placed ethnic Israel in their original homeland because it sets the stage for a Messiah revival. I pray for them. Do you?

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With all due respect to Dr. Hodge, he seems not to have recognized that Paul has specifically identified "all Israel". To wit:

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only the faithful obedient "all Israel", comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant of Israel (Romans 9:27; 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

Christian Gedge said:

Charles Hodge concerning Romans 9 says, “Israel, here, from the context, must mean the Jewish people, and all Israel, the whole nation. The Jews, as a people, are now rejected; as a people, they are to be restored.”

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Can you explain the phrase “The Jews, as a people, are now rejected”?

Believers are the temple of God and someone who doesn’t believe Jesus was the Messiah is currently being rejected as being part of the body of Christ; I don’t think this phrase means that at some point those who reject Jesus as the Messiah will be in the body of Christ. Believers currently don’t reject someone because they are a Jew (as a people). I know there are organizations such as Jews for Jesus that preach the gospel to Jews.


I’m not trying to debate this just wondering what was meant by the statement.

grafted branch said:

Believers are the temple of God and someone who doesn’t believe Jesus was the Messiah is currently being rejected as being part of the body of Christ; I don’t think this phrase means that at some point those who reject Jesus as the Messiah will be in the body of Christ. Believers currently don’t reject someone because they are a Jew (as a people).

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Sure. But Dr. Hodge would have been thinking in context of the Jews who, in Jesus time, were the people of God. A remnant believed and the rest were rejected as his covenant people. Since then small numbers have come to Christ. Shortly before the second coming of Christ, I believe large numbers of Jews will be added.

Christian Gedge said:

Sure. But Dr. Hodge would have been thinking in context of the Jews who, in Jesus time, were the people of God. A remnant believed and the rest were rejected as his covenant people. Since then small numbers have come to Christ. Shortly before the second coming of Christ, I believe large numbers of Jews will be added.

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Ok, thanks for that answer.

Do you know what his view was on Acts 10:34 God is no respecter of persons?

DavidPT said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The logic seems to be, unless I'm reading this wrong, the Israel meant is an Israel that at one time had the kingdom restored to them, but at the time of them asking Him this, the kingdom was in need of being restored to Israel again. One keyword in that verse is 'again'. I think that is relevant thus shouldn't be overlooked because of what it implies.

Let's assume the NT church is what is meant by Israel here. That should mean the text is to be understood like such.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to the NT church?

Is that making sense of the text? If yes, exactly how?

Click to expand...

Hi David,

Interesting discussion. Now Jesus told the 12 disciples that it was not for them to know the times and seasons...` (Acts 1: 7) however when the Lord Jesus ascended and sent His Holy Spirit He said to His Body of believers -

`But concerning the times and seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you for you yourselves KNOW PERFECTLY that the Day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night....

But, you, brethren are NOT IN DARKNESS, so that this Day should overtake you a a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 1 - 3)

The Day of the Lord, (judgment of nations) was written about in the OT however the catching away of the Body of Christ (& prior to that Day) was not known and was revealed by the Holy Spirit to the Apostle Paul for the Body of Christ.

Christian Gedge said:

Shortly before the second coming of Christ, I believe large numbers of Jews will be added.

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Unfortunately, this belief is not scripturally supported.
Isaiah 6:11-13, says only a holy seed will remain. [of Judah] Isaiah 4:3-5

Christian Gedge said:

I am simply saying that God has placed ethnic Israel in their original homeland because it sets the stage for a Messiah revival. I pray for them. Do you?

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Jeremiah 11:14 and Jeremiah 14:10-11, say we are NOT to pray for Judah.