How do you view Revelation? (Judgement free)

TatiC said:

Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."​

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

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Welcome to CF! I was a futurist and after much turmoil I finally got it , took the Dispensational lens off and now I am a partial Preterist. Life is much better now. Blessings

Maximum Partial Preterist here.
All of Revelation had primary prophetic application to those whom it was directly addressed and first delivered to.

The text demands it.

Preterist, but some main themes can be seen throughout history as constantly repeating.

TatiC said:

Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."​

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Click to expand...

Here’s my two cents worth; I find problems or areas that are difficult to explain in all the end time views. I tend to be preterist because I see fewer problems with this view than others.


You mentioned your currently looking at the great tribulation. Eschatology involves a lot of analytical thinking, the notes your looking at only scratch the surface. For example I could say “Isn’t spiritual blindness the greatest tribulation a believer could ever experience? Therefore the great tribulation is spiritual not physical.”


I would say the biggest difference between views is whether something should be understood literally, figuratively, or spiritually. I would encourage you to keep reading what others post here about their views and how they defend their positions.


I know I’ve learned much from this forum. I’ve found that if you just want to ask a question on a thread that’s being heavily debated just mention in your post that you’re not trying to debate. Most everyone here will respect that and give you their view.


One more thing, welcome to the forum!

Revelation spans different time periods, especially Revelation 12.

But I think a huge key in understanding the time frame too is with this verse,


Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

We aren't talking about a day of the week. John always said, first day of the week, etc. He never described any day of the week as the Lord's day.
We are talking about when Christ returns and John has just heard a voice as if a trumpet. Christ returns at the 7th trump. So John is told to write about the past, present and future of that specific time -The Lord's day.

He sees Christ who has the two edged sword,

Revelation 1:16 "And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

This is the same sword he returns with,


Revelation 19:15 "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

So we see that he indeed is in the spirit (not flesh body) on the Lord's Day (future)

Revelation 1:19 "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

That would be past, present and future of the Lord's day.

But as someone also mentioned, Christ lays everything out in Matthew 24 about the end of this age and what happens before his return. Mark 13 and Luke 21 are also good to get a complete picture.

Hi TatiC,

First of all, let me congratulate you on studying Revelation TOGETHER with your fiance. Whether you end up agreeing on the same views or not, it is absolutely vital that both of you are voicing your impressions of what you are reading to each other.

Second, please consider setting aside your Study Bibles (since the notes already contain a biased opinion which might color your understanding) and try reading from a translation such as the YLT or the Interlinear. These versions allow the sense of the time-relevant terms in the original Greek to shine through, which show Revelation's connection to events that were SOON to transpire for the early church. The book of Revelation was written to be understood by its first-century readers, as is clearly shown in Revelation 1:1.

One of the main reasons why there is so much confusion about Revelation today is due to a widespread ignorance of first-century history. I strongly recommend that you also immerse yourself in a study of the first-century times, since this was the reality with which the early church was contending. My favorites to study have been Ussher's Annals of the World, and Josephus. Study the history of the Ceasars, and of the high priesthood in Israel in particular (both the "kings of the habitable world", and the "kings of the earth" respectively).

I grew up with pre-mil-disp. teaching in Christian schools, but after 4 decades as a believer, in the last 9 years I have been doing continual, heavy research into the Preterist views. While there are some errors that need to be set aside, by and large, Preterism has answered all the questions about Revelation for me so far. As Maria Billingsley has said above, "life is much better now" as a partial preterist, with an optimism based on God's plans for this world that overrides all the current traumatic world events. When you know exactly where you are sitting on God's timeline for human history, it enables you to trust God more fully in the trials of the moment.

I'm futurist and on the right of this diagram. It's from a Missler video claiming your eschatology is determined by your hermeneutics. Since I tend to take scripture more literally ... it works for me.

TatiC said:

Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."​

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Click to expand...

All will go through the great tribulation (so says Jesus) but it will be cut short.

Matthew 24

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.Mark 13:14–23; Luke 21:20–24)

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.

21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.

Why I believe that all of the Lord’s people, every faithful Christian, are gathered, judged and settled in the Land of Israel soon after the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath:
The forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath, will be a worldwide catastrophe by a blast from the sun, causing tectonic plate shift, powerful storms and massive tsunamis, so vividly described in over 100 prophesies. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18
This will be a cataclysmic event, killing millions of people, virtually depopulating the entire Mid East. But, some prophecies tell of survivors;

Isaiah 4:3-4 Those who are left in Judah will be called holy

Jeremiah 49:39 Many Iranian people will go as refugees around the world.

Isaiah 21 13-17 the Arabs will meet the fugitives coming down from Jordan with food and water.

Amos 1:13-15 The King of Jordan and his officers will go into exile.

All of the holy Land will be cleansed, giving the opportunity for those called by God to migrate there. Just like America, when people from Europe were motivated to move there and make her a great nation. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalms 107

One of the most important prophecies for this time is Jeremiah 12:14-17 In it the Lord says how the evil neighbors will be uprooted from the Land – also Judah from among them. Then the Lord will have pity and bring Judah back if they learn the ways of My people. That must be to accept the Lord Jesus as their Messiah.

Note that the Lord will not be present at that time:

Jeremiah 30:21 A governor will appear, one of your own, I will bring him near and let him approach Me.

Jeremiah 3:15 I will give you leaders after My own heart. Hosea 1:11

His faithful Christian people will have leaders appointed by the Lord until His Glorious Return, after the 70th week is completed.

keras said:

Why I believe that all of the Lord’s people, every faithful Christian, are gathered, judged and settled in the Land of Israel soon after the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath:
The forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath, will be a worldwide catastrophe by a blast from the sun, causing tectonic plate shift, powerful storms and massive tsunamis, so vividly described in over 100 prophesies. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7, Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18
This will be a cataclysmic event, killing millions of people, virtually depopulating the entire Mid East. But, some prophecies tell of survivors;

Isaiah 4:3-4 Those who are left in Judah will be called holy

Jeremiah 49:39 Many Iranian people will go as refugees around the world.

Isaiah 21 13-17 the Arabs will meet the fugitives coming down from Jordan with food and water.

Amos 1:13-15 The King of Jordan and his officers will go into exile.

All of the holy Land will be cleansed, giving the opportunity for those called by God to migrate there. Just like America, when people from Europe were motivated to move there and make her a great nation. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalms 107

One of the most important prophecies for this time is Jeremiah 12:14-17 In it the Lord says how the evil neighbors will be uprooted from the Land – also Judah from among them. Then the Lord will have pity and bring Judah back if they learn the ways of My people. That must be to accept the Lord Jesus as their Messiah.

Note that the Lord will not be present at that time:

Jeremiah 30:21 A governor will appear, one of your own, I will bring him near and let him approach Me.

Jeremiah 3:15 I will give you leaders after My own heart. Hosea 1:11

His faithful Christian people will have leaders appointed by the Lord until His Glorious Return, after the 70th week is completed.

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The "Jew, which is one outwardly," says Paul, "is not a Jew. . . . But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly" (Rom. 2:28, 29). That is, any believer who accepts the covenant promises is a Jew or Israelite and an inheritor through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus. The promise of heirship of the world was not for Abraham alone, "but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead" (chap. 4:24, 25).

In God's sight there is now "neither Jew nor Greek . . . : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:28, 29). Thus it is "that the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith" (Rom. 9:30).

Everything (all covenants/promises) have been fulfilled in Christ (it is finished) .... we await His return to take us home when He returns in full glory. AMEN!

TatiC said:

Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."​

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Click to expand...

Hi TatiC,

What if the return of Jesus is not about the return of Jesus? What if it is about the events that will shortly precede his return?

Rev 3:3 So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

We are being warned about a series of unthinkable attacks that will happen suddenly with no warning. But Revelation gives us clues so we can avoid the biggest attacks.

Along the entire end-time period (about 100 years), Jesus opens up the seals which are a series of shocks (attacks, mostly nuclear.) We need to be ready for them. 9/11 looks a lot like seal #2 and the sword of Islam. Is seal #4 about America, China and Russia? What color is a dead white horse?

JulieB67 said:

But as someone also mentioned, Christ lays everything out in Matthew 24 and the end of this age

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I don't see how the text supports this at all.

Q: In what age was Jesus born?

A: The Old Testament Law Age:
"But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law [of Moses]" (Gal 4:4)

Q: At what point in that Old Testament age did Jesus appear, suffer, and die on the Cross?

A: "In these last days has spoken to us in His Son" (Hebrews 1:2). "But now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself" (Heb 9:26). "He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you" (1 Peter 1:20).

Q: What age were the apostles in at the time they asked Jesus, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

A: as demonstrated above, They were in the Old Testament Age. Therefore their statement logically spoke of the signs accompanying the end of that Age.

There is no way, contextually, that the apostles were asking, and Jesus was answering, about the end of an age tha hadn't even begun, nor did the apostles have any idea WOULD begin, when they asked about "the end of the age".

They were clearly asking, and Jesus was clearly answering, about the end of the age they were born into and living in, when they asked about it's end.

The text gives us no other option.

parousia70 said:

The text gives us no other option.

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The ancient Prophets talked about far future events.
For example: Zechariah 9:9 predicted Jesus would ride on a donkey, hundreds of years before it literally happened.

Jesus too; spoke of distant events, so your contention is wrong and the real option is for us to be ready for the literal fulfilment of all the vividly described events of the end of the Christian age, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

keras said:

The ancient Prophets talked about far future events.
For example: Zechariah 9:9 predicted Jesus would ride on a donkey, hundreds of years before it literally happened.

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Correct.

Jesus too; spoke of distant events, so your contention is wrong

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Speculation and circular reasoning based solely on your Bias. Again the text itself doesnt allow for it.

and the real option is for us to be ready for the literal fulfilment of all the vividly described events of the end of the Christian age, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus.

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The Christian/Church/Gospel age has no end.
Isaiah 9:7
Ephesians 3:21
Revelation 14:6

The Mosaic Age, however, did indeed come to it's Firey end, it's elements did indeed melt with Fervent Heat, on time, As Prophesied, in THAT Generation.

TatiC said:

Hello all!

My fiancé and I are studying Revelation and are at a part in our study Bibles where the notes read:

"'The great tribulation' has been explained in several ways. Some believe this refers to the suffering of believers through the ages; others believe there is a specific time of intense tribulation yet to come."​

Pretty much my whole life I've thought of the end times to be an event that will occur in the future. As I've gotten older and have studied the Bible I can see why many people view Revelation differently.

I did some research and learned about the 4 main views:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Click to expand...

Hi TatiC,

Good to hear you are both studying that great conclusion to God`s word. Doing it together means you can discuss and bring up something the other mightn`t have seen. Great. Now here is an outline from a great teacher in the last century - C.J.Rolls. Hope it gives you a different perspective than you already have and reveals the Lord and His purposes more to you.

OVERVIEW: The Four Visions.


The predominant aim of Revelation is the setting forth the splendours of the Son of Man, & to reveal His glorious person. There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth. His Kinship was expressed in Matthew, His Heirship in Mark, His Mediatorship in Luke, & His Judgeship in John.

Vision 1. CHRIST - Head of the Body. (Rev. 1 – 3)

This reveals the empowered Son of Man as the Sovereign Administrator.

`in His right hand He held 7 stars.`


Vision 2. CHRIST - HEIR (Rev. 4 – 7)

This reveals the enthroned Son of Man as the Supreme Executor.

`in His right hand He held the 7 sealed book.`



Vision 3. CHRIST - MEDIATOR (Rev. 8 – 13)

This reveals the exalted Son of Man as the Stately Mediator.

`in His hand is a sacred censor.`



Vision 4. CHRIST - JUDGE (Rev. 14 – 22)

This reveals the entitled Son of Man as the Sublime Adjudicator.

`in His hand is a sharp sickle.`



To reveal Christ to us in Revelation, there are three hundred & thirty references to the figures, shadows, symbols, types, patterns, persons, & buildings of the Old Testament.


This unveiling is the culmination of all the truths expressed from Genesis to Revelation, for all scripture is centered on one purpose and that is to reveal Christ to us in all His Glory.

parousia70 said:

Speculation and circular reasoning based solely on your Bias. Again the text itself doesnt allow for it.

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Are you saying that Jesus was not a prophet?
The Words of Jesus are clear; He said that the people alive who will see Judah become a nation again, THEY will see all the prophesied end time events.
Your preterist bias forces a wrong meaning onto who that generation is.

parousia70 said:

The Christian/Church/Gospel age has no end.

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But this age [200 years] of the Gospel, with Satan still at large, must end. There will be a new age, [1000 years] of the benevolent reign of Jesus as King of the world. Then comes Eternity.

parousia70 said:

The Mosaic Age, however, did indeed come to it's Firey end, it's elements did indeed melt with Fervent Heat, on time, As Prophesied, in THAT Generation.

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Rubbish, the Jews still keep the Mosaic Law. Or try to!
There was no New Heavens and earth after 70 AD.

Marilyn C said:

Now here is an outline from a great teacher in the last century - C.J.Rolls.

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Trusting people like CJ Rolls for end times truths, wise and learned as they may be, is a mistake:
Daniel 12:4 said: the Book is sealed until the time of the end.
Jesus said: God has hidden the Prophesies from the wise and learned. Matthew 11:25-26
Paul said: the wise are made foolish... 1 Corinthians 1:19-20

Marilyn C said:

The predominant aim of Revelation is the setting forth the splendours of the Son of Man, & to reveal His glorious person

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The reason for Revelation is: to tell His servants what must happen. Rev 1:1

keras said:

Trusting people like CJ Rolls for end times truths, wise and learned as they may be, is a mistake:
Daniel 12:4 said: the Book is sealed until the time of the end.
Jesus said: God has hidden the Prophesies from the wise and learned. Matthew 11:25-26
Paul said: the wise are made foolish... 1 Corinthians 1:19-20


The reason for Revelation is: to tell His servants what must happen. Rev 1:1

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The whole Bible concerns the Lord, His character and His purposes. Thus the book of Revelation, the UNVEILING revealing of the Lord as He is known in the heavenly realms, is the conclusion of all God`s word. The details concerning the times of the Gentiles ruling the world have yet to unfold, but that does NOT stop God`s Holy Spirit revealing CHRIST to us in all his glory.

`The revelation/unveiling OF JESUS CHRIST which God gave Him to show His servants what must take place.` (Rev. 1:1)

The `what must take place` happens because of the `unveiling of JESUS CHRIST,` - Head of the Body, Heir of the World, Mediator of the Covenant, Judge & Creator of all things new.

TatiC said:

Historicist, Preterist, Futurist, and Idealist.

I was wondering if there was anyone who didn't mind sharing their points of view. (If that's alright or allowed). No judgement whatsoever, I just really like learning about what other people think and why.

Click to expand...

I view Revelation as written to the 1st Century Christians and they understood the symbolism contained therein. It is a book of discipline for the Churches and a book of hope for the persecuted Christians. I also lean partial preterist