Does God have three distinct gospels, or "three in one"? . . . or?

Maria Billingsley said:

Sure, however it has no power. Many get immersed in water but few are immersed in His Holy Spirit which is the Born Again conversion.

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Did this happen prior to Pentecost in addition to after Pentecost?

bbbbbbb said:

Did this happen prior to Pentecost in addition to after Pentecost?

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Jesus only breathed the Holy Spirit to His Apostles though II belive it was to heighten their understanding. The actual event ,where everyone who believes was on the day of Pentecost and yes continues today and until the last day.

Maria Billingsley said:

Jesus only breathed the Holy Spirit to His Apostles though II belive it was to heighten their understanding. The actual event ,where everyone who believes was on the day of Pentecost and yes continues today and until the last day.

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Does the gospel include the baptism of the Holy Spirit when one is born again?

com7fy8 said:

I am sure I am not the only one with ideas about this So, I plan to wait a little, while anyone else cares to share about this.

Do you think the gospel of God's kingdom, the gospel of grace, and the gospel of baptism for repentance for the remission of sins are all the same gospel? Or, are they totally different from one another? Or, might the three be triune with each other? Or . . . something else?

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Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:15-23), which was a light to Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14). Likewise, in Acts 2:38, when Peter called for his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, God's law was how they knew what sin is. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel involved bring Gentiles to obedience in and in deed, and Romans 10:16, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and 1 Peter 4:17 all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and Gospel of the Kingdom is the same as the Gospel of grace, the Gospel of baptism and repentance, the Gospel to the Jews, the Gospel to the Gentiles, the Gospel of Christ, and the Gospel made known in advance to Abraham (Galatians 3:8).

Soyeong said:

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:15-23), which was a light to Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Jesus prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14). Likewise, in Acts 2:38, when Peter called for his audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, God's law was how they knew what sin is. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel involved bring Gentiles to obedience in and in deed, and Romans 10:16, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and 1 Peter 4:17 all speak against those who do not obey the Gospel. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and Gospel of the Kingdom is the same as the Gospel of grace, the Gospel of baptism and repentance, the Gospel to the Jews, the Gospel to the Gentiles, the Gospel of Christ, and the Gospel made known in advance to Abraham (Galatians 3:8).

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Does the gospel require faith in Jesus Christ?

bbbbbbb said:

Does the gospel require faith in Jesus Christ?

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Indeed, the goal of the law is to teach us how to have faith in Christ (Romans 10:4). In John 3:36, obedience to Jesus is equated with obedience to his commands, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, in Matthew 23:23, faith is one of weightier matters of the law, and in Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. The Son exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his actions by living in sinless obedience to God's law, so when we express Christ's nature through our obedience to God's law, we are expressing what we believe to be true about the nature of who he is, or in other words we are believing in him or expressing our faith in him, which is goal of the Gospel calling us repent and obey God's law.

com7fy8 said:

I am sure I am not the only one with ideas about this So, I plan to wait a little, while anyone else cares to share about this.

Do you think the gospel of God's kingdom, the gospel of grace, and the gospel of baptism for repentance for the remission of sins are all the same gospel? Or, are they totally different from one another? Or, might the three be triune with each other? Or . . . something else?

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The gospel reveals the unchanging love of God, and it’s this message that needs to go to the world.

bbbbbbb said:

Does the gospel include the baptism of the Holy Spirit when one is born again?

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Yes that is in essence what the Gospel is all about. Adam and Eve once walked with His Holy Spirit until the fall. Jesus Christ of Nazareth restored the relationship. This was displayed symbolically by the tearing of the veil in two in the Holy of hollies in the Temple and the release of the Holy Spirit to all who believe.

Soyeong said:

Indeed, the goal of the law is to teach us how to have faith in Christ (Romans 10:4). In John 3:36, obedience to Jesus is equated with obedience to his commands, in Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, in Matthew 23:23, faith is one of weightier matters of the law, and in Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. The Son exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his actions by living in sinless obedience to God's law, so when we express Christ's nature through our obedience to God's law, we are expressing what we believe to be true about the nature of who he is, or in other words we are believing in him or expressing our faith in him, which is goal of the Gospel calling us repent and obey God's law.

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So, the end goal of the gospel is to bring people to repentance and subjection to God's law?

Maria Billingsley said:

Yes that is in essence what the Gospel is all about. Adam and Eve once walked with His Holy Spirit until the fall. Jesus Christ of Nazareth restored the relationship. This was displayed symbolically by the tearing of the veil in two in the Holy of hollies in the Temple and the release of the Holy Spirit to all who believe.

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Thank you. I happen to agree strongly with you, but apparently Soyeong does not.

bbbbbbb said:

Thank you. I happen to agree strongly with you, but apparently Soyeong does not.

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Oh that is because Messianic is still tied to the law thus quenching His
Holy Spirit. Need to pray for their regeneration throughJesus Christ of Nazareth and receive His Spirit. The law is a block. No one is able to please the Father through the law of Moses.

Maria Billingsley said:

Oh that is because Messianic is still tied to the law thus quenching His
Holy Spirit. Need to pray for their regeneration throughJesus Christ of Nazareth and receive His Spirit. The law is a block. No one is able to please the Father through the law of Moses.

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Yes, it is completely impossible. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! (II Corinthians 9:15).

bbbbbbb said:

Thank you. I take it that you would say that the gospel of John the Baptist was secondary to the gospel of Jesus Christ. That makes sense to me.

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John called for people to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and Jesus did the same thing, so it is not a different Gospel message.

bbbbbbb said:

Would you say that the law given through Moses on Mount Sinai to God's covenant people, Israel, was the gospel?

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Indeed. Again, when John and Jesus were calling for people to repent, the law given through Moses on Sinai was his his audience knew what they should be repenting from transgressing.

bbbbbbb said:

So, the end goal of the gospel is to bring people to repentance and subjection to God's law?

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Indeed, the Gospel message being described as the call to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand has it goal to repent and obey God's law. Every kingdom has laws that govern the conduct of its citizens and God's law is straightforwardly the way to enter and to live as citizens of God's Kingdom. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom, and the Father has made his will known through His law (Psalms 40:8). The Kingdom of God is where the nature of God is multiplied and God's law is His instructions for how to multiply His nature, which is why the Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23).

bbbbbbb said:

Thank you. I happen to agree strongly with you, but apparently Soyeong does not.

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Oh that is because Messianic is still tied to the law thus quenching His
Holy Spirit. Need to pray for their regeneration throughJesus Christ of Nazareth and receive His Spirit. The law is a block. No one is able to please the Father through the law of Moses.

All of the fruits of the Spirt are aspects of God's nature, so the purpose of God's law is to teach us how to express the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Acts 5:32, it says that the Spirit is given to those who obey God, not that those who obey God quench the Spirit.

If obeying God's commands quenched His Holy Spirit, then God commanded His people to quench His Holy Spirit, which is absurd, when the reality is that the opposite is true. Why do you think that God called for His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible if it were something that he was not pleased by? If it were true that no one is able to please the Father through obeying what He has commanded, then it would be that much more true that no one is able to please the Father by refusing to obey what He has commanded. The Father wants our obedience, not our disobedience.

Soyeong said:

John called for people to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and Jesus did the same thing, so it is not a different Gospel message.

Indeed. Again, when John and Jesus were calling for people to repent, the law given through Moses on Sinai was his his audience knew what they should be repenting from transgressing.

Indeed, the Gospel message being described as the call to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand has it goal to repent and obey God's law. Every kingdom has laws that govern the conduct of its citizens and God's law is straightforwardly the way to enter and to live as citizens of God's Kingdom. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus said that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom, and the Father has made his will known through His law (Psalms 40:8). The Kingdom of God is where the nature of God is multiplied and God's law is His instructions for how to multiply His nature, which is why the Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23).

Oh that is because Messianic is still tied to the law thus quenching His
Holy Spirit. Need to pray for their regeneration throughJesus Christ of Nazareth and receive His Spirit. The law is a block. No one is able to please the Father through the law of Moses.

All of the fruits of the Spirt are aspects of God's nature, so the purpose of God's law is to teach us how to express the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Acts 5:32, it says that the Spirit is given to those who obey God, not that those who obey God quench the Spirit.

If obeying God's commands quenched His Holy Spirit, then God commanded His people to quench His Holy Spirit, which is absurd, when the reality is that the opposite is true. Why do you think that God called for His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible if it were something that he was not pleased by? If it were true that no one is able to please the Father through obeying what He has commanded, then it would be that much more true that no one is able to please the Father by refusing to obey what He has commanded. The Father wants our obedience, not our disobedience.

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Thank you. Do you know why Paul rebaptized the twelve followers of John the Baptist in Acts 19?

bbbbbbb said:

Thank you. Do you know why Paul rebaptized the twelve followers of John the Baptist in Acts 19?

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Indeed, though the difference would be more akin to going from watching a movie in black and white to watching the same movie in color, where the Spirit enriches us, but the baptism is not a different type of thing. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing is something that they should be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith, so someone can obey the law while not expressing aspects of God's nature that are fruits of the Spirit, but obeying God's law in a way that expresses the fruits of the Spirit is not a different type of thing.

com7fy8 said:

I am sure I am not the only one with ideas about this So, I plan to wait a little, while anyone else cares to share about this.

Do you think the gospel of God's kingdom, the gospel of grace, and the gospel of baptism for repentance for the remission of sins are all the same gospel? Or, are they totally different from one another? Or, might the three be triune with each other? Or . . . something else?

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If you have Jesus Christ first and foremost. Then the gospel is simply believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So you can brand the gospel with any phrase you like.

Romans 10:9-11
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Paul preached the authentic gospel of Jesus Christ and only that gospel. That was his commission.
Now read the next verse so you can identify the gospel.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

That's the gospel in a nutshell. Everything else is of secondary importance.

I personally like the phrase, the gospel of grace, because that is exactly what it is.

com7fy8 said:

I am sure I am not the only one with ideas about this So, I plan to wait a little, while anyone else cares to share about this.

Do you think the gospel of God's kingdom, the gospel of grace, and the gospel of baptism for repentance for the remission of sins are all the same gospel? Or, are they totally different from one another? Or, might the three be triune with each other? Or . . . something else?

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There’s one gospel, ushering in one new covenant where we come to know the true God, turning to Him in faith where He forgives and forgets our sin and becomes our God and we become His people. He now places His law in our minds and writes it on our hearts; He justifies us.

Soyeong said:

Indeed, though the difference would be more akin to going from watching a movie in black and white to watching the same movie in color, where the Spirit enriches us, but the baptism is not a different type of thing. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing is something that they should be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith, so someone can obey the law while not expressing aspects of God's nature that are fruits of the Spirit, but obeying God's law in a way that expresses the fruits of the Spirit is not a different type of thing.

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If what you say is true, it hardly explains why Paul went to all the trouble and bother to rebaptize the twelve men who, according to you, had already received valid baptism. Do you have any ideas concerning why Paul felt it necessary to rebaptize these men?

bbbbbbb said:

If what you say is true, it hardly explains why Paul went to all the trouble and bother to rebaptize the twelve men who, according to you, had already received valid baptism. Do you have any ideas concerning why Paul felt it necessary to rebaptize these men?

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There is a significant difference between following God's law without the leading of the Spirit and following it with the leading of the Spirit, but the Spirit does not lead us to do something other than obey God's law. For example:

Leviticus 19:12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Someone who was following the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us to not swear falsely, whereas someone who was following the letter of this law exactly how it is written would understand that we are permitted to swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name. Incidentally, this is what Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 5:33-37.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

Acts 19 says nothing to invalidate water baptism, repentance, or believing in Jesus, but is does add the baptism of the Spirit in addition to that.

Soyeong said:

There is a significant difference between following God's law without the leading of the Spirit and following it with the leading of the Spirit, but the Spirit does not lead us to do something other than obey God's law. For example:

Leviticus 19:12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Someone who was following the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us to not swear falsely, whereas someone who was following the letter of this law exactly how it is written would understand that we are permitted to swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name. Incidentally, this is what Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 5:33-37.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

Acts 19 says nothing to invalidate water baptism, repentance, or believing in Jesus, but is does add the baptism of the Spirit in addition to that.

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Actually, it also adds the baptism of water, as well. Paul did not baptize those men with the Holy Spirit, but baptized them in water because, obviously, John's baptism of repentance is not the equivalent of Christian baptism. John came bringing the good news (gospel) of repentance. Jesus' gospel was not the gospel of repentance.