Does God have three distinct gospels, or "three in one"? . . . or?

[Soyeong]

Actually, it also adds the baptism of water, as well. Paul did not baptize those men with the Holy Spirit, but baptized them in water because, obviously, John's baptism of repentance is not the equivalent of Christian baptism. John came bringing the good news (gospel) of repentance. Jesus' gospel was not the gospel of repentance.

Adding the baptism of the Holy Spirit to water baptism involves both. These verses describe Jesus' Gospel as being a Gospel of repentance:

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4:23 And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Adding the baptism of the Holy Spirit to water baptism involves both. These verses describe Jesus' Gospel as being a Gospel of repentance:

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4:23 And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people.

If the gospel of John the Baptist was identical to the gospel of Jesus Christ, then why are their baptisms different?

 

[Soyeong]

If the gospel of John the Baptist was identical to the gospel of Jesus Christ, then why are their baptisms different?

Jesus spent his ministry calling for people to repent, so that is not different. The baptism of of the Spirit didn't happen until after his ministry in Acts 2, which was in addition to water baptism.

 

[Guojing]

I am sure I am not the only one with ideas about this So, I plan to wait a little, while anyone else cares to share about this.

Do you think the gospel of God's kingdom, the gospel of grace, and the gospel of baptism for repentance for the remission of sins are all the same gospel? Or, are they totally different from one another? Or, might the three be triune with each other? Or . . . something else?

The term gospel simply means "good news"

God has various good news given to different audience during different time periods

God told Abraham the good news he will have many descendants like the stars of heaven and the sand in the shore in genesis 15

God told David the good news that a descendant from him will be ruling from his throne in 2 Samuel 7

God told Israel the good news, after about 400 years of complete silence, that this descendant from David is finally here in the flesh, to usher them into that promised kingdom of heaven on earth in Luke 1

Finally after Israel the nation rejected the messiah for the final time by stoning Stephen, God announced to the whole world the good news thru the apostle Paul that, all of us, gentiles or Jews can be saved thru believing in Jesus death burial and resurrection (Romans 11:11, 1 cor 15:1-4).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Jesus spent his ministry calling for people to repent, so that is not different. The baptism of of the Spirit didn't happen until after his ministry in Acts 2, which was in addition to water baptism.

Here are the stark differences between John's baptism and the baptism of Jesus Christ.

1. John's baptism was a baptism for the repentance of sin which led to a reformed life to be observant to the Law of Moses.

2. Jesus' baptism entailed a change of mind (repentance) concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. It represents a new birth through the Holy Spirit, death, burial, and resurrection to a new life according to the indwelling Holy Spirit in the new temple, the body of the believer.

 

[Soyeong]

Here are the stark differences between John's baptism and the baptism of Jesus Christ.

1. John's baptism was a baptism for the repentance of sin which led to a reformed life to be observant to the Law of Moses.

2. Jesus' baptism entailed a change of mind (repentance) concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. It represents a new birth through the Holy Spirit, death, burial, and resurrection to a new life according to the indwelling Holy Spirit in the new temple, the body of the believer.

I have shown that Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so you should not try contrast his baptism with something else, but rather you should understand the things that you listed in #2 within the framework of the Gospel that Jesus taught. Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature, which he expressed through his actions by living in sinless obedience to God's law, so that is core to his identity, and becoming obedient to it is the way to change our mind about the person and work of Jesus Christ. When we express aspects of Christ's nature through our obedience to God's law, we are testing about what we believe about the person of Christ, our in other words, we are believing in him, which is why there are many verses that connect our obedience with our faith in him. For example, in John 6:40, those who believe in Christ will have eternal life, and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in Christ.

A chip off the old block is someone who has the same nature or character as their father, and this is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God and the sense that we have new birth as children of God when we are expressing God's nature through our obedience to God's law, which is why those who do not practice righteous in obedience to it are not children of God (1 John 3:10). In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is they way to believe in the work that Jesus accomplished through his death, burial, and resurrection (Acts 21:20). Furthermore, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so all of this is part of the same Gospel message.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I have shown that Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so you should not try contrast his baptism with something else, but rather you should understand the things that you listed in #2 within the framework of the Gospel that Jesus taught. Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature, which he expressed through his actions by living in sinless obedience to God's law, so that is core to his identity, and becoming obedient to it is the way to change our mind about the person and work of Jesus Christ. When we express aspects of Christ's nature through our obedience to God's law, we are testing about what we believe about the person of Christ, our in other words, we are believing in him, which is why there are many verses that connect our obedience with our faith in him. For example, in John 6:40, those who believe in Christ will have eternal life, and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in Christ.

A chip off the old block is someone who has the same nature or character as their father, and this is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God and the sense that we have new birth as children of God when we are expressing God's nature through our obedience to God's law, which is why those who do not practice righteous in obedience to it are not children of God (1 John 3:10). In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is they way to believe in the work that Jesus accomplished through his death, burial, and resurrection (Acts 21:20). Furthermore, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so all of this is part of the same Gospel message.

Hmmm. It seems to me to be rather pointless for Jesus to have gone to the bother of becoming a human and ending up being crucified, dead, buried, resurrected, and ascended back to God if, in fact, the bottom line was merely to grab people's attention to their need to obey the Law. God, in fact, had given His Law so that His people would have had all they needed from God, would they not?

 

[Soyeong]

Hmmm. It seems to me to be rather pointless for Jesus to have gone to the bother of becoming a human and ending up being crucified, dead, buried, resurrected, and ascended back to God if, in fact, the bottom line was merely to grab people's attention to their need to obey the Law. God, in fact, had given His Law so that His people would have had all they needed from God, would they not?

Why would that be pointless? God did not just give His law as a gift to us, but also sent Jesus to show us how to obey it by setting a sinless example, and Jesus did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so he spent the sum of his ministry teaching us how to obey God's law by word and by example. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so redeeming us from our lawlessness was certainly needed, and being redeemed from our lawlessness is being set free to do good works in obedience to God's law, so everything that Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross was to lead us to obey it, and the Spirit also has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why would that be pointless? God did not just give His law as a gift to us, but also sent Jesus to show us how to obey it by setting a sinless example, and Jesus did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so he spent the sum of his ministry teaching us how to obey God's law by word and by example. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so redeeming us from our lawlessness was certainly needed, and being redeemed from our lawlessness is being set free to do good works in obedience to God's law, so everything that Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross was to lead us to obey it, and the Spirit also has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

That being said, is there anything in particular about Jesus' ministry that actually set Him apart from any of the prophets before Him? They all, like him, proclaimed, in one form or another, obedience to the Law and, like Him, many of them were martyred.

 

[pescador]

That being said, is there anything in particular about Jesus' ministry that actually set Him apart from any of the prophets before Him? They all, like him, proclaimed, in one form or another, obedience to the Law and, like Him, many of them were martyred.

Yes. He was sent directly by God the Father for a specific task: sacrifice Himself so that people could be reunited with God the Father and live forever.

Jesus did not come to proclaim obedience to the OT law but to pay the penalty for all sins committed by humanity, thereby paying the price for all. Anyone who accepts that sacrifice on their behalf is judged innocent by reason of Jesus' death.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes. He was sent directly by God the Father for a specific task: sacrifice Himself so that people could be reunited with God the Father and live forever.

Jesus did not come to proclaim obedience to the OT law but to pay the penalty for all sins committed by humanity, thereby paying the price for all. Anyone who accepts that sacrifice on their behalf is judged innocent by reason of Jesus' death.

I completely agree. The end goal for Jesus Christ was to reconcile sinful man to a holy and righteous God through His sacrifice, but as high priest who offered Himself and as the very sacrifice itself, and not merely to reform sinful man by bringing them to obedience to the Law which could never justify anyone.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There's only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the Gospel of the kingdom, the Gospel of God's grace.

St. John the Baptist's ministry was a ministry of repentance, a calling of people to repentance in the expectation and hope of God's coming salvation through the advent of the Messiah. John's ministry pointed toward Christ, pointed toward the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And thus the hopeful expectation of redemption can be said to be Gospel, in the same way that when the Prophets point forward to redemption and God's saving promises it is Gospel.

But the Gospel is never Law. God's commandments are not Gospel, but Law. Which is why the Law cannot justify, it cannot produce faith. Thus any who argues that the Gospel has anything to do with commandments, obedience, and good works preaches a false gospel.

The Gospel has nothing to do with our works, it has nothing to do with God's commandments. The Gospel is always good news. The Law has no good news. There is nothing in the Law to comfort the weary sinner who transgresses the Law.

The murderer receives no comfort when the judge declares, "You are guilty". The murderer receives only the cold hard truth of their own guilt and condemnation under the law. The Law isn't meant to bring comfort, but to condemn sin and reveal the guilty verdict against all of us.

The Gospel is the verdict of "You are forgiven, your debts are paid in full, your guilt is wiped away".

If you aren't preaching the forgiveness of sins and the reconciliation between sinners and God through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, then you aren't preaching the Gospel.

If you are preaching the commandments of God, to love our neighbor, to act justly in the world, etc, you are preaching the Law. Which is necessary, because we are guilty of sin, and that sin is serious--therefore, we are to repent.

But each must be preached correctly and rightly; confusing Law and Gospel breeds theological turmoil and spiritual death. The result can only ever be pride or despair. But never faith, hope, and love.

Faith is borne of the Gospel. Hope is found in God's promises and the comfort of His promises. Love is found in the freedom of conscience to love our neighbor without being enslaved to a guilty conscience before God believing that we must somehow earn God's favor, acceptance, and compassion through our meager works.

Man instinctively rebels against this because man, a slave of his disordered passions, always wants to assert the theology of glory by good works; because the message of the Cross is foolishness to the world and to the natural man. We preach the foolishness, humility, and weakness of God in the Cross, a stumbling block for the Jews and foolishness for the Greeks.

Men, who love to boast of their works, and glory in their works, at once both despises the Law of God because it calls him out as a sinner; and hates the Gospel because it robs man of his "natural rights" to be his own lord. Because the Law means we are wretches, naked beggars. The Gospel means that God freely gives everything to such a wretch and beggar, clothing him with the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and working faith in him by which the beggar's hands are opened, and receive everything from God.

To say that I have nothing except what God gives me. And I am nothing except what God makes me.

I am a sinner.
God calls me a saint.

I am a slave.
God calls me free and His own child.

I am wretched.
God calls me blessed.

I am poor.
God calls me rich.

Before the Law I am all these things: A sinner, a slave, a wretch, and poor.
By the Gospel I am called a saint, a child of God, blessed, and abundantly rich in Christ.

These are simultaneously true: I am a sinner and I am a saint. I am a slave of my disordered passions, and I am the freeman of God in Jesus Christ, adopted as a beloved child of the Father. I am a naked wretch with nothing, poor, a beggar, hopeless and hapless; and I have been made rich by the countless blessings of God's mercies which are poured out abundantly upon me day and night in Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Law calls me a sinner.
The Gospel calls me a saint.

Both are true.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Here are the stark differences between John's baptism and the baptism of Jesus Christ.

1. John's baptism was a baptism for the repentance of sin which led to a reformed life to be observant to the Law of Moses.

2. Jesus' baptism entailed a change of mind (repentance) concerning the person and work of Jesus Christ. It represents a new birth through the Holy Spirit, death, burial, and resurrection to a new life according to the indwelling Holy Spirit in the new temple, the body of the believer.

Christian Baptism isn't for repentance, but for forgiveness of sin. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, the baptism which Christ institutes for His Church is a baptism of forgiveness through the power of His own resurrection; for this reason Paul says that the one who is baptized has "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27), and has been buried with Christ and therefore has been raised up together with Christ to new life (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12-13).

John's baptism is never said to have forgiveness attached to it. It was a baptism of repentance.

Only Christ's baptism has forgiveness of sins attached to it, because it is baptism into Christ, it is baptism into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Which is why St. Peter in his epistle says that the saving efficacy of baptism has nothing to do with the removal of dirt from our skin, but the pledge of a clean conscience before God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The purpose of baptism isn't to wash the body, but to wash the conscience, to wash away sin; and this solely by the work and power of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.

John's baptism had no such promises, had no such power; because Christian Baptism is made Christian Baptism by the word of God, God's word which He attaches to it--"for the forgiveness of sins".

The one who is baptized is washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, the blood He shed at Calvary.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbbbbbb]

Christian Baptism isn't for repentance, but for forgiveness of sin. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, the baptism which Christ institutes for His Church is a baptism of forgiveness through the power of His own resurrection; for this reason Paul says that the one who is baptized has "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27), and has been buried with Christ and therefore has been raised up together with Christ to new life (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12-13).

John's baptism is never said to have forgiveness attached to it. It was a baptism of repentance.

Only Christ's baptism has forgiveness of sins attached to it, because it is baptism into Christ, it is baptism into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Which is why St. Peter in his epistle says that the saving efficacy of baptism has nothing to do with the removal of dirt from our skin, but the pledge of a clean conscience before God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The purpose of baptism isn't to wash the body, but to wash the conscience, to wash away sin; and this solely by the work and power of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.

John's baptism had no such promises, had no such power; because Christian Baptism is made Christian Baptism by the word of God, God's word which He attaches to it--"for the forgiveness of sins".

The one who is baptized is washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, the blood He shed at Calvary.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you.

 

[Soyeong]

Christian Baptism isn't for repentance, but for forgiveness of sin. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, the baptism which Christ institutes for His Church is a baptism of forgiveness through the power of His own resurrection; for this reason Paul says that the one who is baptized has "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27), and has been buried with Christ and therefore has been raised up together with Christ to new life (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12-13).

John's baptism is never said to have forgiveness attached to it. It was a baptism of repentance.

Only Christ's baptism has forgiveness of sins attached to it, because it is baptism into Christ, it is baptism into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Which is why St. Peter in his epistle says that the saving efficacy of baptism has nothing to do with the removal of dirt from our skin, but the pledge of a clean conscience before God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The purpose of baptism isn't to wash the body, but to wash the conscience, to wash away sin; and this solely by the work and power of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.

John's baptism had no such promises, had no such power; because Christian Baptism is made Christian Baptism by the word of God, God's word which He attaches to it--"for the forgiveness of sins".

The one who is baptized is washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, the blood He shed at Calvary.

-CryptoLutheran

Do you think that those who repent from their disobedience to God don't find forgiveness? If they find forgiveness, then you are making a false distinction.

 

[Guojing]

If you aren't preaching the forgiveness of sins and the reconciliation between sinners and God through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, then you aren't preaching the Gospel.

Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

This verse says the 12 were preaching "the gospel", was it the gospel you are stating above?