Matthew 24 - the Sydney Anglican "Boltian" reading - THIS GENERATION means it!

eclipsenow · Oct 29, 2021

Hi all,
this is another attempt at explaining Matthew 24 from the Sydney Anglican perspective, first drawn up by theologian and historian, Dr Peter Bolt. This is one perspective influenced by the "Boltian" reading

I'm going to limit it to Matt 24 for now - and only see it in two stages, as the disciples asked, the destruction of the temple - and the end of the age.
Matt 24: Jesus warns them that the temple is going to be destroyed. Nation will rise against nation - Rome is coming - but it's not the end of the world. There will be famines due to the siege - which Josephus shows us was AWFUL! There will be earthquakes (and historians tell us there was.) But it's still not the end of the world. There will be many false messiahs during this time - and there were - leading the very revolts that caused the Roman razing of Jerusalem in the first place.

But it's still not the end of the world! Indeed - don't believe any of the million crackpot false hope stories about Jesus being here or there. People get crazy during times of awful crisis - times that feel unequalled since the creation of the world. Because when it REALLY IS the end of the world - it will be as obvious as the lightning flashing from East to West.

But for now, remember that even when you see Jerusalem fall and the temple looted and burned, even if your instinct is to rush in and save it - don't! Run away instead!

Because even with the temple destroyed, it's STILL not the end of the world. Jerusalem has rejected her king and is dead. It's like a carcass - and the Roman vultures (or eagles?) are gathering around it to devour it.

Indeed, this is why Jesus came. Jesus is judging Jerusalem just as Isaiah's prophecy judged Babylon.

Isaiah 13 is quoted here as it shows the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament - as God stirs up the Medes to strike down the young men of Babylon. The Medes will so shake the kingdoms of earth it is spoken of in cosmic terms.

Isaiah 13:
"See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."

It's like the Day of the Lord against Babylon. But it's STILL not the end of the world.

Again, this judgement against Jerusalem is so severe it brings to mind Isaiah 34: which is a universal judgment against all God's enemies - Edom.

Isaiah 34
"All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree."

God is judging Jerusalem. The Old Covenant is gone! AND WHY? Because of God's grace - because of the sign of the Son of Man - Jesus own death and resurrection. It's only a week away. They're at the temple, and the disciples are exclaiming about what large stones they can see, but Jesus is aware that he is going to die! Why wouldn't he refer to his death here, as he thinks about the temporary nature of the temple? He's GOING TO DIE! But it's STILL not the end of the world - because he's going to rise again - and ascend to heaven. Then he will be coming on the clouds of heaven into the very throne room of the Ancient of Days to rule from there in victory for all eternity (including when heaven and earth wed).

Then his angels - literally messengers - will go out and gather in his kingdom from across the world - exactly as we see happening in Acts.

But it's still not the end of the world - because they should learn the lesson of the fig tree. All this is going to happen in that generation - to save them.

But now we finally get to the end of the world.

About THAT DAY - no one knows - not even the Father. It's going to be a shock, and surprise everyone. Because that really WILL be the end of the world - especially for those who are not ready. And then we have 3 parables about doing the right thing and it finally finishes with Judgment Day of the Sheep and Goats.

It's a hard passage - but the main area where Boltians disagree with mainstream Amils is really listening when Jesus says all 'these things' WILL happen in that generation. Before verse 36's 'that day', Boltians see only the lightning as a reference to Jesus returning - the sun and moon and Son of Man on the clouds are all judgement and gospel - as they should be to explain something as horrific as the fall of Jerusalem and God's temple.

DavidPT · Oct 29, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Hi all,
this is another attempt at explaining Matthew 24 from the Sydney Anglican perspective, first drawn up by theologian and historian, Dr Peter Bolt. This is one perspective influenced by the "Boltian" reading

I'm going to limit it to Matt 24 for now - and only see it in two stages, as the disciples asked, the destruction of the temple - and the end of the age.
Matt 24: Jesus warns them that the temple is going to be destroyed. Nation will rise against nation - Rome is coming - but it's not the end of the world. There will be famines due to the siege - which Josephus shows us was AWFUL! There will be earthquakes (and historians tell us there was.) But it's still not the end of the world. There will be many false messiahs during this time - and there were - leading the very revolts that caused the Roman razing of Jerusalem in the first place.

But it's still not the end of the world! Indeed - don't believe any of the million crackpot false hope stories about Jesus being here or there. People get crazy during times of awful crisis - times that feel unequalled since the creation of the world. Because when it REALLY IS the end of the world - it will be as obvious as the lightning flashing from East to West.

But for now, remember that even when you see Jerusalem fall and the temple looted and burned, even if your instinct is to rush in and save it - don't! Run away instead!

Because even with the temple destroyed, it's STILL not the end of the world. Jerusalem has rejected her king and is dead. It's like a carcass - and the Roman vultures (or eagles?) are gathering around it to devour it.

Indeed, this is why Jesus came. Jesus is judging Jerusalem just as Isaiah's prophecy judged Babylon.

Isaiah 13 is quoted here as it shows the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament - as God stirs up the Medes to strike down the young men of Babylon. The Medes will so shake the kingdoms of earth it is spoken of in cosmic terms.

Isaiah 13:
"See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger— to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."

It's like the Day of the Lord against Babylon. But it's STILL not the end of the world.

Again, this judgement against Jerusalem is so severe it brings to mind Isaiah 34: which is a universal judgment against all God's enemies - Edom.

Isaiah 34
"All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree."

God is judging Jerusalem. The Old Covenant is gone! AND WHY? Because of God's grace - because of the sign of the Son of Man - Jesus own death and resurrection. It's only a week away. They're at the temple, and the disciples are exclaiming about what large stones they can see, but Jesus is aware that he is going to die! Why wouldn't he refer to his death here, as he thinks about the temporary nature of the temple? He's GOING TO DIE! But it's STILL not the end of the world - because he's going to rise again - and ascend to heaven. Then he will be coming on the clouds of heaven into the very throne room of the Ancient of Days to rule from there in victory for all eternity (including when heaven and earth wed).

Then his angels - literally messengers - will go out and gather in his kingdom from across the world - exactly as we see happening in Acts.

But it's still not the end of the world - because they should learn the lesson of the fig tree. All this is going to happen in that generation - to save them.

But now we finally get to the end of the world.

About THAT DAY - no one knows - not even the Father. It's going to be a shock, and surprise everyone. Because that really WILL be the end of the world - especially for those who are not ready. And then we have 3 parables about doing the right thing and it finally finishes with Judgment Day of the Sheep and Goats.

It's a hard passage - but the main area where Boltians disagree with mainstream Amils is really listening when Jesus says all 'these things' WILL happen in that generation. Before verse 36's 'that day', Boltians see only the lightning as a reference to Jesus returning - the sun and moon and Son of Man on the clouds are all judgement and gospel - as they should be to explain something as horrific as the fall of Jerusalem and God's temple.

Even though your focus is Mathew 24, Luke 21 tells us something that Matthew 24 neglects to tell us. Both accounts tell us this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Surely, 'all' is meaning all things Jesus is predicting, and not just some things Jesus is predicting. In Luke 21 Jesus predicted the following before He predicted that this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled---until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled(Luke 21:24).

Unless the times of the Gentiles have already been fulfilled before this generation meant allegedly passed away 2000 years ago and that one can undeniably prove it from Scriptures, this generation has then not passed away yet. It makes Jesus out to be a liar if He first said that the times of the Gentiles have to be fulfilled, then later says this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled, and that it passed away anyway, regardless that the times of the Gentiles were not fulfilled first. That is a contradiction to what He plainly said and the order in which He said these things.

And not only that, and this time we don't need Luke 21 as well,we can use Matthew 24 alone.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As to verse 34 it matters what context He said this in. Verse 35 and 36 does not involve first century context, it involves the end of this age context. It would be silly of Jesus, thus confusing of Him, if He is applying verse 34 to the first century when He is applying verse 35 and 36 to the end of this age.

TribulationSigns · Oct 29, 2021

The generation of Matthew 24 is speaking about the ongoing evil and adulterous generation/family since Cain.

Read the article on this.

eclipsenow · Oct 29, 2021

DavidPT said:
Even though your focus is Mathew 24, Luke 21 tells us something that Matthew 24 neglects to tell us. Both accounts tell us this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Surely, 'all' is meaning all things Jesus is predicting, and not just some things Jesus is predicting. In Luke 21 Jesus predicted the following before He predicted that this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled---until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled(Luke 21:24).

Unless the times of the Gentiles have already been fulfilled before this generation meant allegedly passed away 2000 years ago and that one can undeniably prove it from Scriptures, this generation has then not passed away yet. It makes Jesus out to be a liar if He first said that the times of the Gentiles have to be fulfilled, then later says this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled, and that it passed away anyway, regardless that the times of the Gentiles were not fulfilled first. That is a contradiction to what He plainly said and the order in which He said these things.

And not only that, and this time we don't need Luke 21 as well,we can use Matthew 24 alone.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As to verse 34 it matters what context He said this in. Verse 35 and 36 does not involve first century context, it involves the end of this age context. It would be silly of Jesus, thus confusing of Him, if He is applying verse 34 to the first century when He is applying verse 35 and 36 to the end of this age.

Time of the Gentiles started in that generation 2000 years ago with the destruction of the temple.

As the Reformation Study Bible commentary puts it:

Luke 21:24
21:24 the times of the Gentiles. This may mean the time when the Gentiles will have their triumph over Israel, or the time when the gospel is preached to the Gentiles, or both. fulfilled. A divine purpose will be worked out (cf. Rom. 11:1–32).
Luke 21:24 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway

That is - I'm a very WASP Aussie slob - not a Jew. And yet I still call God father - and that is probably what the 'time of the Gentiles' refers to. There is simply no contradiction.

Luke 21 seems even more concerned with spelling out the apocalyptic horrors both Jerusalem and the Son of Man must endure - and what the Son of Man coming on the clouds (to the Ancient of Days) means. We get all the way down to 34 before Jesus changes tack and starts to talk about the end!

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

I wonder about 'escape all that is about to happen'. No one escapes the final judgment. Is Jesus saying to his disciples "Pray that you'll get out before Jerusalem is messed up" and then "Pray that you'll stand firm to the end, because I will be coming back on Judgement Day". Unlike Matthew, which gives us 3 parables about how to wait faithfully and then a vision of Judgement Day with the sheep and the goats - Luke is not as clear - and moves straight on to Judas. But that's Luke's choice of emphasis.

Christian Gedge · Oct 30, 2021

eclipsenow said:
I'm going to limit it to Matt 24 for now - and only see it in two stages, as the disciples asked, the destruction of the temple - and the end of the age.
Matt 24: Jesus warns them that the temple is going to be destroyed. Nation will rise against nation - Rome is coming - but it's not the end of the world. There will be famines due to the siege - which Josephus shows us was AWFUL! There will be earthquakes (and historians tell us there was.) But it's still not the end of the world. There will be many false messiahs during this time - and there were

Sorry, but we can’t leave out Mark 13 and Luke 21. Does Dr. Bolt explain things falling out of the sky and waves and seas roaring?

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Christian Gedge said:
Sorry, but we can’t leave out Mark 13 and Luke 21. Does Dr. Bolt explain things falling out of the sky and waves and seas roaring?

Good question - and I'm having some trouble finding the exact answer. At this stage some preliminary thoughts. Think about stars in the OT. God made the stars, don't worship the stars, etc.

But what about the many promises that Israel will grow to number more than the stars?
What about Joseph calling his brothers - the sons of Israel - the stars bowing down to him?

What about Isaiah's prophecy of the Persians rising and utterly overthrowing Babylon?
Isaiah 13: "The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."
Also: "Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger."
This is all about the Medes / Persians overtaking the Babylonians, not some astronomical event.

But I admit that Isaiah 34 is a picture of the universal judgement with creation being undone - and that also uses the language of the starry host falling. So it's difficult. But is it filling in a timeline for us, or a message of theological importance?

That is, it's a week till Jesus is executed.
He's preparing them for HIS DEATH by talking about the end of the temple, and the most important part of that being his own death and resurrection.

William Dumbrell (A 'Boltian' author at Moore) suggests that when they see the Temple fall, they should see this as a sign of Jesus reign - the Son of Man coming in the clouds before the Ancient of Days - and rejoice. It's not necessarily saying Jesus will die and rise and ascend before the Ancient of Days THEN - but they are to remember then. The end of the temple is a sign of Jesus reigning - and his Judgement - but the end is not yet. The stars falling from heaven are a part of that judgment. All 'these things' are going to happen in that generation.

But the end is not yet.

Then he moves on to discuss "That day".

Christian Gedge · Oct 31, 2021

I put a post on your other thread, but its likely to get buried there. I’ll bring it over here.

Ive Just finished listening to the first message that you put up. You’ve got a nice church. I liked the preacher too, but basically he presented the Preterist variety of Amillenialism. I didn’t agree.

There is something Preterists need to get their heads around when it comes to the Olivet discourse. Some prophecy is telescoped through a ‘near’ fulfilment on to ‘far’ fulfilment. Both satisfy the prophecy but the first is precursor to the ultimate fulfilment. Isaiah 13 and Isaiah 34 are similar.

I’ll go with C S Lewis. By the time we get halfway through the Olivet, we are in apocalyptic stuff - big time. That’s my view.

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Thanks for the kind comments about my church. I grew up here, became a Christian here, moved away when I joined the army - and then came back to raise my own kids here.

Now, CSLewis also said the "This generation" verse was the most embarrassing verse in the whole bible! He was also a mixed literary history philosophy Polymath, but not really a theologian. Good on Christian life, not so on Christian theology. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE his writing and stories and some of his ideas. His writing is known for its beauty in secular writing courses, such as "The Little Red Writing Book" - and the author is by no means a Christian - but is compelled to recognise Lewis's beautiful writing.

But - Lewis's ideas against the ordination of women make me wince. We're not to Ordain women to the Priesthood (there's a warning word!) because the Priest represents Christ to the church - and Jesus was male - and there's something about being male in the essence of being a Priest? I mean - way to forget the priesthood of all believers. And also for someone sceptical about 6 day creationism, he sure was weak on the alternative readings of Genesis that show what a work of Hebrew literary genius it really is.

So I'm a fan, but disappointed sometimes - and will not take Lewis on more technical matters of theology over a mere graduate of Moore - let alone their equivalent of a Professor.

Kenneth Heck · Oct 31, 2021

Why do we use the words "pass away" for die? This is a popular euphemism for death which needs to be explained, since it is erroneous.

Literally speaking, pass away means that the physical form of a person has disappeared (died), but the memories of people still living, or the details of those who have been long dead, but are recorded in writing, do not exist. So, as long as we have a record of the generation Christ was speaking to, they have not passed away.

Christ didn't say that Lazarus had passed away, rather he said that Lazarus was dead (because he hadn't passed away).

John 6:48 "Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead." Why didn't Christ say "passed away" rather than dead? Because there was an oral and written record of them surviving in Judaism.

When there is no memory or knowledge of something on earth that once existed, it has truly passed away. The generation Christ spoke to did indeed die, but they still haven't passed away.

Christian Gedge · Oct 31, 2021

Kenneth Heck said:
Why do we use the words "pass away" for die? This is a popular euphemism for death which needs to be explained, since it is erroneous.

It a bit like buying 'life' insurance, when what we are really buying is 'death' insurance.

Christian Gedge · Oct 31, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Thanks for the kind comments about my church. I grew up here, became a Christian here, moved away when I joined the army - and then came back to raise my own kids here.

Now, CSLewis also said the "This generation" verse was the most embarrassing verse in the whole bible! He was also a mixed literary history philosophy Polymath, but not really a theologian. Good on Christian life, not so on Christian theology. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE his writing and stories and some of his ideas. His writing is known for its beauty in secular writing courses, such as "The Little Red Writing Book" - and the author is by no means a Christian - but is compelled to recognise Lewis's beautiful writing.

But - Lewis's ideas against the ordination of women make me wince. We're not to Ordain women to the Priesthood (there's a warning word!) because the Priest represents Christ to the church - and Jesus was male - and there's something about being male in the essence of being a Priest? I mean - way to forget the priesthood of all believers. And also for someone sceptical about 6 day creationism, he sure was weak on the alternative readings of Genesis that show what a work of Hebrew literary genius it really is.

So I'm a fan, but disappointed sometimes - and will not take Lewis on more technical matters of theology over a mere graduate of Moore - let alone their equivalent of a Professor.

Sure, everyone has there weak and strong points - even the great C.S.Lewis no doubt. But getting back to 'Boltian' eschatology, it sounds to me like orthodox Preterism with a pink ribbon. I'm just plain ol' Amil:- God's Kingdom from the Cross; the times of the Gentiles from AD 70; Satan's short season toward the end; a cataclysmic finale; then the New heavens and the New earth.

Douggg · Oct 31, 2021

Christian Gedge said:
Sure, everyone has there weak and strong points - even the great C.S.Lewis no doubt. But getting back to 'Boltian' eschatology, it sounds to me like orthodox Preterism with a pink ribbon. I'm just plain ol' Amil:- God's Kingdom from the Cross; the times of the Gentiles from AD 70; Satan's short season toward the end; a cataclysmic finale; then the New heavens and the New earth.

This is the failure of Amil in blue.

God's Kingdom from the Cross; the times of the Gentiles from AD 70; [leaving out the end times, Jesus's Second Coming, and the 1000 year millennium] ; Satan's short season toward the end; a cataclysmic finale; then the New heavens and the New earth.

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Kenneth Heck said:
Why do we use the words "pass away" for die? This is a popular euphemism for death which needs to be explained, since it is erroneous.

Literally speaking, pass away means that the physical form of a person has disappeared (died), but the memories of people still living, or the details of those who have been long dead, but are recorded in writing, do not exist. So, as long as we have a record of the generation Christ was speaking to, they have not passed away.

Enough already.
It means that generation.
AD 70 happened that generation.
Deal with it.

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Christian Gedge said:
Sure, everyone has there weak and strong points - even the great C.S.Lewis no doubt. But getting back to 'Boltian' eschatology, it sounds to me like orthodox Preterism with a pink ribbon. I'm just plain ol' Amil:- God's Kingdom from the Cross; the times of the Gentiles from AD 70; Satan's short season toward the end; a cataclysmic finale; then the New heavens and the New earth.

Preterism in a pink ribbon? Ha ha - I like it.
We are PP's - Partial Preterists but for this week I'll go by "Pink Preterist" just for you. :oldthumbsup:

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Douggg said:
This is the failure of Amil in blue.

God's Kingdom from the Cross; the times of the Gentiles from AD 70; [leaving out the end times, Jesus's Second Coming, and the 1000 year millennium] ; Satan's short season toward the end; a cataclysmic finale; then the New heavens and the New earth.

This is the problem with futurists.
They forget we've been in the Last Days for 2000 years and counting.
Acts 2
Hebrews 1:1

Douggg · Oct 31, 2021

eclipsenow said:
This is the problem with futurists.
They forget we've been in the Last Days for 2000 years and counting.
Acts 2
Hebrews 1:1

"we've been in the Last Days for 2000 years and counting"

Agreed.

Last days - 2000 years - two days of a thousand years is as a day to the Lord.

Time of the end is the final generation of the Last Days. The parable of the fig tree generation.

From Adam to Christ - 4000 years - 4 days

From Christ to the Second Coming - 2000 years - 2 days

From the Second Coming to Satan's short season - 1000 years - 1 day, God Sabbath day of rest for earth, the nations will learn war no more during that time.

___________________________________________________
End times...

Israel a nation again (1948)
Jews gain possession of Jerusalem again (1967)

<<<<<<<We are here>>>>>

EU reorganizes to ten leader form of Gov't
The little horn comes to power
Gog/Magog takes place
end of Islam
little horn comes into middle east
little horn anointed the king of Israel
becomes the Antichrist
Antichrist confirms covenant for 7 years.
False messianic age begins, the great falling away in Christianity begins
The world saying peace and safety
Antichrist breaks covenant.
transgression of desolation act (rapture must take place prior to the ToD act)
beginning years of the Day of the Lord
revealed man of sin killed.
revealed man of sin brought back to life
now the beast
a statue image made of him
triggering the great tribulation
two witnesses killed.
seventh angel sounds his trumpet
war in the second heaven
Satan cast down
vials of wrath poured out
battles of Daniel 11:40-44 take place
Sign of the son of Man in heaven
Armageddon assembly
Armies surround Jerusalem, Zechariah 14
Jesus returns
beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire
armies destroyed
Satan bound, cast into the bottomless pit
resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints
the millennium rule of Jesus on this present earth
Satan released from prison
final rebellion, including the former Gog Magog nations
God destroys them
resurrection of all dead
the Great White Throne judgment
New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem
Eternity.

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Douggg said:
The parable of the fig tree generation.

Except that was that generation 2000 years ago.

Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” ...

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Douggg · Oct 31, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Except that was that generation 2000 years ago.

The time of the end generation lasted 2000 years? No.

The parable of the fig tree generation will see Jesus's Second Coming and the second heaven removed, rolled up like a scroll in the Sixth seal event.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

and all of the house of Israel returned to the land of Israel...

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

A promise made to the children of Israel in Deuteronomy 30:4...

1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
_____________________________________________

End times...

Israel a nation again (1948)
Jews gain possession of Jerusalem again (1967)

<<<<<<<We are here>>>>>

EU reorganizes to ten leader form of Gov't
The little horn comes to power
Gog/Magog takes place
end of Islam
little horn comes into middle east
little horn anointed the king of Israel
becomes the Antichrist
Antichrist confirms covenant for 7 years.
False messianic age begins, the great falling away in Christianity begins
The world saying peace and safety
Antichrist breaks covenant.
transgression of desolation act (rapture must take place prior to the ToD act)
beginning years of the Day of the Lord
revealed man of sin killed.
revealed man of sin brought back to life
now the beast
a statue image made of him
triggering the great tribulation
two witnesses killed.
seventh angel sounds his trumpet
war in the second heaven
Satan cast down
vials of wrath poured out
battles of Daniel 11:40-44 take place
Sign of the son of Man in heaven
Armageddon assembly
Armies surround Jerusalem, Zechariah 14
Jesus returns
beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire
armies destroyed
Satan bound, cast into the bottomless pit
resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints
the millennium rule of Jesus on this present earth
Satan released from prison
final rebellion, including the former Gog Magog nations
God destroys them
resurrection of all dead
the Great White Throne judgment
New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem
Eternity.

Kenneth Heck · Oct 31, 2021

Enough already.
It means that generation.
AD 70 happened that generation.
Deal with it.

The disciples asked two separate questions: When will the temple be destroyed, and second, when will be Christ's second coming and the end of the age. The first part was fulfilled with the Romans destroying the temple in 70 AD. The second part has obviously not yet been fulfilled.

What did not happen in that generation living at the time of Christ was the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven and all the tribes of the earth mourning - Matt 24:30. That generation has all died but has not yet passed away.

Another example of what pass away in the bible means: Matt 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away"
Isa 65:17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered nor come into mind." In other words, they shall pass away.

eclipsenow · Oct 31, 2021

Douggg said:
The time of the end generation lasted 2000 years? No.

Mere repetition does not make an argument.
I know you want your end-times-table to be true - but it just isn't.
The disciples asked when THAT temple would be destroyed, and he answered (amongst other claims) THAT generation, and it WAS.
These are just the facts.

Matthew 24 - the Sydney Anglican "Boltian" reading - THIS GENERATION means it!

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Well-Known Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Well-Known Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Active Member

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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