Growth versus Law

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It is by the Holy Spirit that growth develops from a life that loves it. Paul does not allow the law, either as a means of working our righteousness before God, nor as a means of producing sanctification. As justification is by faith in the Savior, so also, growth is the outcome of the new life, acted upon by the Spirit of Christ. Thus Paul refuses the law altogether for the believer.

The law is not allowed to have any part in the Christian economy at all (for though “the law is not of faith,” yet not of man, but of God; the law does not consist of faith in Christ, nor does it require it” – J Gill); it is, as one of the elements of the world, gone for the believer in the Cross of Christ (law condemns unrighteousness and thereby commends righteousness, as those “walking in the Spirit” will desire to do rightly without being told - Gal 5:23—NC). The Cross has swept away all that belongs to the world; there is not a vestige of it left for God, nor faith (Gal 3:12 – law requires self-righteousness, which does not exist, as all righteousness is from God and imputed to believers (Ro 4:11—NC) because it cannot be imparted - 1Co 1:30—NC). Hence Paul takes up the elements one by one and shows that we are delivered from them all. It is wonderful to see this, and that our Father has imparted a new life and nature, to which nothing that applied to the old can attach nor have any part in. We ourselves, personally, are now in a mixed condition of things, and have the two principles within us, but the old is not allowed, and the new is only recognized.

In Galatians 2:20 Paul says, “I have been crucified with Christ.” Then he says, “They that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its affections and lusts” (Gal 5:24). Here the truth of crucifixion is applied generally to the believer. It is true of all those that are Christ’s. But it is one thing to have the judicial truth pronounced by the Spirit in the Word (He being the Author of God’s written Word – 2Tim 3:16; 2Pe 1:21), and it is another thing entirely for the individual believer to be able to appropriate (reckon—NC) that truth by faith to himself. We find in our experience as believers that we have to go through our spiritual education and apply to ourselves all the truths that radiate from the Cross.

Now, “They that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh, with its affections and lusts,” is a judicial statement; and while it remains true of us, it is ours to make it true to ourselves individually. We have the same truth presented in a slightly different aspect in at least four ways in Scripture, and it will help us to see how it is brought practically to bear upon us.

First, “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God” (Col 3:3). Here, again, the truth is stated judicially; that is, it is a truth concerning us from God’s point of view. It is a very full statement, and no man has any part in the new order of things (concerning producing the “newness”—NC), but as he is looked at as dead to all that in which he once lived, in the old Adamic order. We “passed from death into life” (Jhn 5:24; 1Jo 3:14). We are re-created into a new creation (not restored but something never having existed before—NC), in resurrection, through the “narrow” door (Mat 7:13, 14—NC) of Calvary-death. It is by the Cross we enter into it (cannot live unto righteousness until dyeing unto unrighteousness - Jhn 12:24—NC), and having entered, we leave everything that belonged to the old order, morally, behind. “Ye have died,” says Paul, but yet you live (we died to guilt and dominion of “the old man” but it is not dead in us, as it ever opposes to delay spiritual growth, but can never affect redemption – Gal 5:17—NC). Your new life (new man or new nature—NC) is a “hidden” one (Col 3:3), away, above the sphere in which your bodies are, where Christ sitteth. Therefore, “seek the things that are above” (Col 3:1).

Second, in Romans 6:11 we have the exhortation to apply this truth in a particular way, practically. “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” These we are exhorted to reckon, to count upon, that which is true of us judicially, to be true of us practically. It is not that we are actually dead, for Scripture says, “Reckon” yourselves (old self—NC) to be dead—that is, be practically dead. We are held to be dead judicially by God, and to reckon with God is characteristic of faith.

“We thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again” (2Co 5:14, 15). Here, faith reckons with God.

It says, I was dead in sins, He died for me, I now live not unto myself, which would be unto sin, but to Him who died for me (Rom 14:7, 8—NC). I reckon myself alive to God in Jesus Christ my Lord. It is in the power of the new life, we thus hold ourselves dead, as far as the old Adamic life is concerned.

Third, in 2 Corinthians 4:10 we find out how it was carried out by Paul. “Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.” What does he mean by that? He means that he is reckoning himself to be dead to everything down here, because it is all ruined by sin. The word translated “dying” is literally “deadness.” The Lord Jesus was dead to it all. Sin had left its stamp on everything down here, and He was necessarily dead to it (in His desires for it—NC). Now Paul reckoned this to be true of himself by faith; “Always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus.”

Now there is a fourth thing: “For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the Life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh” (2Co 4:11). Here is the Father enabling him to do the thing he desired to do (Phl 2:13—NC). Who delivered him unto death? Judicially, positionally, God did at the Cross. Then He carried out that death practically, day by day. “We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed (2Co 4:8, 9).

Why did the Father put him into persecution? Why was Paul allowed to be cast down, perplexed, troubled? Because Paul wanted to bear about in his body the dying of the Lord Jesus, and the Father says, I will enable you to do it. Paul desired in all the vigor of divine life to serve his Lord, so He made the very difficulties he encountered in his service a means processing to this end; ordering indeed for this very purpose.

It is evident that the daily death and life go together. God does not want dead men spiritually. He does not want us to wake up to the truth that we are dead and remain there. No, He gives us a new life and nature (2Pe 1:4), and He intends that we manifest that life in these mortal bodies. Now we cannot manifest that life except as we keep the old life in death, or under the nullifying power of death—inactive (though sin yet affects, the point is that we are ever absent of the desire after the old man—NC). “I do it,” says Paul, “that the life of Jesus be manifested.” Then the Father enables you to do that and puts you in a place of trouble, perplexity and persecution, in order that you may do it.

Saints of God today say, How is it I am in troubles, straightened circumstances? How is it I am so tried? Well, beloved, if we do not get persecution in the same way as in the Apostles days, yet we get illness and difficulties and trials of various kinds in its place; and it is our Father enabling us to hold ourselves in the place of death, in order that the Life of the Lord Jesus may be manifest to all.

When this is the case, we too shall be able to say, “Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong” (2Co 12:9, 10).


—C J Stewart (1775 – 13 July 1837)





MJS online devotional excerpt for September 29

“During the first half of your Christian life you are concerned about your doing; in the second half you will be burdened about your being.” -MJS

"The more simply devoted you are to the Lord Jesus, who is worthy of all devotion, the more fragrance there will be in all your ways; for it will be manifested that you are not seeking yourself, not wincing because your rights are invaded, or that you are not as much cared for as you are entitled to be. Rather, there is only one governing thought of your life about everything, and that is, how you may distinguish Him who fills every need in your heart, and lights it up with unfading joy." -J.B.S.

"In creation God planted a man in the garden in innocence; in redemption He has planted a Man in heaven, in glory. There is a glory that excelleth. The glory in redemption leaves the glory that was once in creation as nothing." -J.G.B.
None But The Hungry Heart

 

Ligurian

Cro-Magnon
Apr 21, 2021
3,589
536
America
✟22,234.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
<snip>
The law is not allowed to have any part in the Christian economy at all
<snip>

We “passed from death into life” (Jhn 5:24; 1Jo 3:14). We are re-created into a new creation (not restored but something never having existed before—NC), in resurrection, through the “narrow” door (Mat 7:13, 14—NC) of Calvary-death. It is by the Cross we enter into it (cannot live unto righteousness until dyeing unto unrighteousness - Jhn 12:24—NC)
<snip>

The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Revelation 21:1-6 "new heaven" "new earth" "It is done."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, hath Everlasting Life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 12:44-50 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7:24-25 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon the rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon the rock.

Matthew 16:16-18 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art petros, and upon this rock(petra) I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

In other words, the church of Jesus is built on Jesus, by Jesus... the stone the builders rejected is Jesus, and the rock is Jesus, too.
(petros is a piece of rock larger than a stone but smaller than petra)

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

This means physical death, not metaphysical. If a man is tortured into blasphemy and apostacy, he loves his life more than he loved following Jesus.


You act like you never understood Matthew 13.

Hi and appreciate your interest. Would also like to know what you're talking about. God bless!

Matthew 13:19-23 When any one heareth the word of the Kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The "word of the Kingdom" means what Jesus taught the Twelve to preach:

Matthew 10:5-7 These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.



Aren't you even a little bit... physical Israelite... generations back? Or are you only drawn to the gentile gospel?
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,522.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
It is by the Holy Spirit that growth develops from a life that loves it. Paul does not allow the law, either as a means of working our righteousness before God, nor as a means of producing sanctification. As justification is by faith in the Savior, so also, growth is the outcome of the new life, acted upon by the Spirit of Christ. Thus Paul refuses the law altogether for the believer. The law is not allowed to have any part in the Christian economy at all (for though “the law is not of faith,” yet not of man, but of God; the law does not consist of faith in Christ, nor does it require it” – J Gill); it is, as one of the elements of the world, gone for the believer in the Cross of Christ (law condemns unrighteousness and thereby commends righteousness, as those “walking in the Spirit” will desire to do rightly without being told - Gal 5:23—NC). The Cross has swept away all that belongs to the world; there is not a vestige of it left for God, nor faith (Gal 3:12 – law requires self-righteousness, which does not exist, as all righteousness is from God and imputed to believers (Ro 4:11—NC) because it cannot be imparted - 1Co 1:30—NC). Hence Paul takes up the elements one by one and shows that we are delivered from them all. It is wonderful to see this, and that our Father has imparted a new life and nature, to which nothing that applied to the old can attach nor have any part in. We ourselves, personally, are now in a mixed condition of things, and have the two principles within us, but the old is not allowed, and the new is only recognized. In Galatians 2:20 Paul says, “I have been crucified with Christ.” Then he says, “They that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its affections and lusts” (Gal 5:24). Here the truth of crucifixion is applied generally to the believer. It is true of all those that are Christ’s. But it is one thing to have the judicial truth pronounced by the Spirit in the Word (He being the Author of God’s written Word – 2Tim 3:16; 2Pe 1:21), and it is another thing entirely for the individual believer to be able to appropriate (reckon—NC) that truth by faith to himself. We find in our experience as believers that we have to go through our spiritual education and apply to ourselves all the truths that radiate from the Cross.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law on our minds and writing it on our hearts, the New Covenant does involve following the Law of God, and this is a central part of the Christian economy. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21), and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so if the law of God is not part of the Christian economy, then neither is salvation.

In Galatians 3:12, Paul said that works of the law are not of faith, while in Romans 3:31, he said that our faith upholds the Law of God, so in order to avoid interpreting Paul as contradicting himself, we need to recognize that he spoke about about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as works of the law and the law of sin. For example, in Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with the law of faith, and in Romans 7:25, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin. In Matthew 23:23, Christ said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law of God, so again it is a law that is of faith, unlike works of the law.

There can be reasons for obeying Law of God other than trying to earn our righteousness, especially because it was never given as a means of doing that, so verses that speak against that should not be mistaken as speaking against our righteousness requiring us to do obey the Law of God for some other reason, such as faith. Only those who have faith with obey the Law of God and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul could say both in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified while also denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification can be earned as a wage. Christ is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Law of God, so that is a core part of his identity, and our sanctification is about being made to be like Christ. Christ expressed his righteousness through his actions by living in obedience to the Law of God, so that is also the way that we live when are are imputed with his righteousness, while trying to establish our own righteousness has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law (Romans 9:30-10:4). In Psalms 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 17:17, it says to sanctify them in truth and that God's word is truth, and faith is about putting our trust in what is truth to guide us in how to live.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit is contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law of God, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God is what it means to believe in the Cross of Christ (Acts 21:20), while returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from is what it means to spurn the Cross of Christ. The way to live a new life with a new nature is not by rejecting God's laws for how to do that. Being dead to sin is being alive to the Law of God and being dead to the Law of God is being alive to sin.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law on our minds and writing it on our hearts, the New Covenant does involve following the Law of God, and this is a central part of the Christian economy. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21), and sin is the transgression of the Law of God (1 John 3:4), so if the law of God is not part of the Christian economy, then neither is salvation.
Hi and thanks for your reply, but I can't read it well enough in the light-green. I would like to reply if you could repost it in another color in another post. Thanks!
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,522.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Hi and thanks for your reply, but I can't read it well enough in the light-green. I would like to reply if you could repost it in another color in another post. Thanks!

Hello. Your reply was in light green, which is why my reply kept the color. In any case, it's back to normal now.
 
Upvote 0

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law on our minds and writing it on our hearts, the New Covenant does involve following the Law of God, and this is a central part of the Christian economy.
My understanding of Jer 31:31-38; Eze 36:22-38; Isa 45:17; Gen 49:18 and many other passages are references only to the Jews, which is a truth that usually ends at an impasse in discussions, due to attempting to relate the Law with Christianity, which are entirely separate administrations, and esp. that the prior Covenant being "finished" or "fulfilled," which is when Jesus declared it will "pass" (Mat 5:18) and many other passages supporting this truth.

I would like to wait on your reply from what I've shared before continuing our discussions to determine our understanding of one another here.

Thanks and God bless!
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,522.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
My understanding of Jer 31:31-38; Eze 36:22-38; Isa 45:17; Gen 49:18 and many other passages are references only to the Jews, which is a truth that usually ends at an impasse in discussions, due to attempting to relate the Law with Christianity, which are entirely separate administrations, and esp. that the prior Covenant being "finished" or "fulfilled," which is when Jesus declared it will "pass" (Mat 5:18) and many other passages supporting this truth.

I would like to wait on your reply from what I've shared before continuing our discussions to determine our understanding of one another here.

Thanks and God bless!

In Jeremiah 31:31, the New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel, so it can be argued that the New Covenant is only for Jews, though usually Gentiles want to come under the New Covenant, so more caution needs to be taken about what is only for Jews. The only way that Gentiles can become partakers of the New Covenant is through becoming joined to Israel through faith in Christ. In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that came up out out of Egypt, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai. In Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there have always been righteous Gentiles who have learned to walk in the ways of the God of Israel in obedience to His law. In Ephesians 2:19, through faith in Christ, Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens to the covenant, but are now fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the house hold of God. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting the obey the instructions that God gave for how to fulfill these roles.

The Mosaic Law is how the offspring of Abraham knew how to be blessed, so Israel teaching the nations to turn from their wicked ways and how to walk in God's ways is the fulfillment of the promise that God made to Abraham that through his offspring all of the nations of the earth would be blessed, which has its ultimate fulfillment in Christ, who was sent to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26). It is defeating the point of Israel's role for Gentiles to reject the law as being only given to Israel when it was given to Israel for the purpose of being a light and a blessing to the nations by teaching Gentiles to obey it (Isaiah 2:2-3, 49:6).

While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to express the same nature through walking in His ways. For example, the way to express God's righteousness is based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to express His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and Christianity is not about refusing to follow anything that Christ taught.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus did not say that the Law and the Prophets will pass, but rather he said that not least part would pass way from the law until heaven and earth disappeared and all is accomplished, neither of which has happened yet. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will as made known in His law to be obeyed as it should be” (NAS Greek Lexicon pleroo 2c3). After Jesus said he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5, he proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it or by completing our understanding of it. In Galatians 5:14, loving our neighbor fulfills the entire law, so it refers to something that countless people have done, not to something unique that only Jesus did. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, so you should interpret that in the same way as you interpret fulfilling the Law of Moses. Likewise, in Romans 3:31, Paul confirmed that our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
In Jeremiah 31:31, the New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel, so it can be argued that the New Covenant is only for Jews, though usually Gentiles want to come under the New Covenant, so more caution needs to be taken about what is only for Jews.
The New Covenant in Jerimiah 31 and Ezekiel 36 refer to a final Law Covenant (Jer 31:33) with the Jews who "believe in God" (John 14:1). It will be an earthly Covenant (New Earth) but not heavenly (New Heaven), as Heaven requires sonship in the Lord Jesus (Jhn 20:29).

Law covenants are between God and man. The final New Covenant in Christ's "Blood" (Luk 22:20) is between the Father and the Son (still not common knowledge - Phl 2:5-11; Heb 13:20, el al.).

Covenant of redemption

"The covenant of redemption is the eternal agreement within the Godhead in which the Father appointed the Son to become incarnate, suffer, and die as a federal head of mankind to make an atonement for their sin. In return, the Father promised to raise Christ from the dead, glorify Him, and give Him a people. Two of the earliest theologians to write about the covenant of redemption were Johannes Cocceius and John Owen, though Caspar Olevian had hinted at the idea before them. This covenant is not mentioned in the Westminster Standards, but the idea of a contractual relationship between the Father and Son is present. Scriptural support for such a covenant may be found in Psalms 2 and 110, Isaiah 53,[14] Philippians 2:5–11 and Revelation 5:9–10. Some covenant theologians have denied the intra-Trinitarian covenant of redemption, or have questioned the notion of the Son's works leading to the reward of gaining a people for God, or have challenged the covenantal nature of this arrangement."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_theology#Covenant_of_redemption
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Sword: "The law is not allowed to have any part in the Christian economy at all"





To grow is to understand. The same as everybody grows at school, then goes off to their jobs and lives.

Then when the school master is replaced, we are in Christ.

Being in Christ is when they are grown, they cant grow on and on, they now understand all things by the Spirit teaching you not some things,m but all things.

Then the law is to be there for others who need you, this is what the law prepared man for, and also how it revealed how man has to be better than the unbelieving, ungrown, immature, imperfect way of the old testament..



Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
 
Upvote 0

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Sword: "The law is not allowed to have any part in the Christian economy at all"

To grow is to understand. The same as everybody grows at school, then goes off to their jobs and lives.

Then when the school master is replaced, we are in Christ.

Being in Christ is when they are grown, they cant grow on and on, they now understand all things by the Spirit teaching you not some things,m but all things.

Then the law is to be there for others who need you, this is what the law prepared man for, and also how it revealed how man has to be better than the unbelieving, ungrown, immature, imperfect way of the old testament..

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
I like what you've shared, but it should be mentioned that many have yet to realize that the Law (beginning with the Ten Commandments) was only to a certain people for a certain amount of time.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Sword: "I like what you've shared, but"



The law was to the lawless, for ever.

The law of Christ, is what was always in Christ, it is the Lord, and that would be only to certain people then, for a certain amount of time, which also is for ever...




1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.


And nobody likes what I share, without something they want to share in return.
 
Upvote 0

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
The law was to the lawless, for ever.
Yes, the spirit of the Law but not the Law itself! It was intended to manifest sin, not deliver from it, which answers to why it's types and shadows prevalently taught about Christ's expiation for sin but not how to be delivered from it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Word: " the spirit of the Law but not the Law itself! It was intended to manifest sin, not deliver from it"


If a man could keep the law, and be lawful, they would be delivered from sin.

Man breaking the law, was proven in that all fell short of the glory of God.

Then men in faith ( faith given by the faith of Christ) believe that Jesus dying for them and rising again, takes away the weakness of the law, which is the Spirit not in man, and all that was in man then were words, which the devil would take out, and man forgets what God has said in the law, and remembers his own laws instead, which are selfishness greed and evil.

Now a better conscience is given, to keep the things of God ( by the Holy Spirit in man) and to keep His right ways ( the same as the law, but now the law fulfilled in righteousness)



Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.


Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?


Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
If a man could keep the law, and be lawful, they would be delivered from sin.
I like this comment because it is directly related to the issue of forgiveness, which in the OT was received through the administration of sin sacrifices by the Levitical priesthood, which were "a shadow of good things to come" (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17)--representing Christss expiation for believer's sins, e.g. Num 15:25; and in the NT by the administration Christ Himself. Thus we can see that the obedience of those receiving God's forgiveness doesn't produce deliverance but manifests it!

Romans 2:26
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
This is hypothetical, and make the supposition that "if one could keep the Law," because no mere man can keep the Law perfectly, neither was it intended to be by man but only Christ, to manifest His perfection, which proved His qualification for a spotless sacrifice!

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us",.... 'By the righteousness of the law, is not meant the righteousness of the ceremonial law, though that was fulfilled by Christ; but of the moral law, which requires holiness of nature, righteousness of life, and death in case of disobedience; active righteousness, or obedience to the precepts of the law, is designed here.

"This is what the law requires; obedience to the commands of it is properly righteousness; and by Christ's obedience to it we are made righteous, and this gives the title to eternal life: now this is said to be "fulfilled in us"; this is not fulfilled by us in our own persons, nor can it be; could it, where would be the weakness of the law? man might then be justified by it (Rom 3:20; Gal 2:16), and so the grace of God, and the righteousness of Christ, must be set aside.

"There never was any mere man that could fulfil it; for obedience to it must not only be performed perfectly, but with intenseness of mind and spirit; a man must be sinless in thought, word, and deed."
- John Gill
Growth versus Law

Equally impertinent to know is that the Law was given only to the Jews and that it "passed" when Christ "fulfilled" (Mat 5:18) it ("it is finished), to bring in, not a law but a New Covenant between Hin and the Father for believers in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Sword: "Thus we can see that the obedience of those receiving God's forgiveness doesn't produce deliverance but manifests it"





A shadow manifests nothing, light manifests all, and light was given in the Gospel..




Ephesians 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Sword: "because no mere man can keep the Law perfectly, neither was it intended to be by man but only Christ, to manifest His perfection, which proved His qualification for a spotless sacrifice"




I wont correct every word you have spoken right now, because Gods word speaks better than your words, so they are sufficient to answer your words in all your statements.


The law was until John, then Jesus preaches the Kingdom of God, which is the law magnified, fulfilled to be made honourable ( it is then intended by mere man to replicate, according to the teaching here)...



Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.



To not destroy, means to keep alive, kept until all passes away of the heaven and the earth, ( because above i confirmed it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than one tittle of the law to fail)


Then the least of the same commandments Christ kept, are to be kept, and the righteousness of the breakers ( the Pharisees) must be exceeded, so must their unfaithful teaching be exceeded to be kept in faithfulness...


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Then what they heard in the law, is increased, to be the children of our Father ( not the deceptive father the devil in imperfection) but to do much more than those in the law breaking, now to be in keeping to be therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect...



Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

WordSword

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2017
1,310
272
70
MO.
✟250,138.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
The law was to the lawless, for ever.

You may also find this interesting from John Gill: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man,...."

"No man is naturally righteous since Adam, excepting the man Christ Jesus: some that are righteous in their own opinion, and in the esteem of others, are not truly and really so; none are righteous, or can be justified in the sight of God by the works of the law; those only are righteous men, who are made so through the imputation of Christ's righteousness to them."
1 Timothy 1 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible
 
Upvote 0