Growing in the Spirit

RandyPNW · Sep 29, 2021

Growing in the Spirit. I recently had a fellow Christian argue with me that Jesus never "became sin." He was concerned to say that Jesus was not flawed, and never knew sin.

However, in explaining to him the necessity that Jesus did in effect "become sin" by being willing to suffer punishment that we deserve, I said the following...

"Growing in the knowledge of the Lord is not necessarily Salvation. Yes, atonement is being reconciled to God--not merely by asking forgiveness, and not merely by growing in the knowledge of God, but more, by repenting in the name of Jesus, through whom we receive eternal life.

"If only Jesus' works were qualified to atone for our sins and to give us eternal life, then nothing we do apart from him obtains for us salvation. All that we do, including repentance and spiritual growth, must begin with our embrace of Jesus as our spiritual life, because he alone is the source of eternal atonement for sin.

"What I'm saying is that in choosing Jesus as our atonement this is synonymous with embracing his spiritual life alone as our source of living, and rejecting all of our own carnal works and independence of mind. All our spiritual growth, and all of our repentance from here on out, comes through our abiding in his spiritual life. Only in this way do we benefit from his atonement and receive eternal life.

"When you say Jesus did not become "sin" for us, you are in effect denying that he became the source of our atonement. He went through suffering and death to make himself available to sinners who repent *in his name.* To repent apart from his name is to deny the necessity of his atonement."

Let me encourage you today to "walk in the Spirit," which doesn't mean that you have to receive mental impressions of what course to take each day, but rather, that we receive in our conscience a sense of how to behave in our decision-making in the spirit of God's love. Do this, and you will be blessed. Suffer for it, and you will be blessed even more!

spiritfilledjm · Sep 29, 2021

That debate should have been ended fairly quickly with 2 Corinthians 5:21 ^_^

Maria Billingsley · Sep 29, 2021

RandyPNW said:
Growing in the Spirit. I recently had a fellow Christian argue with me that Jesus never "became sin." He was concerned to say that Jesus was not flawed, and never knew sin.

However, in explaining to him the necessity that Jesus did in effect "become sin" by being willing to suffer punishment that we deserve, I said the following...

"Growing in the knowledge of the Lord is not necessarily Salvation. Yes, atonement is being reconciled to God--not merely by asking forgiveness, and not merely by growing in the knowledge of God, but more, by repenting in the name of Jesus, through whom we receive eternal life.

"If only Jesus' works were qualified to atone for our sins and to give us eternal life, then nothing we do apart from him obtains for us salvation. All that we do, including repentance and spiritual growth, must begin with our embrace of Jesus as our spiritual life, because he alone is the source of eternal atonement for sin.

"What I'm saying is that in choosing Jesus as our atonement this is synonymous with embracing his spiritual life alone as our source of living, and rejecting all of our own carnal works and independence of mind. All our spiritual growth, and all of our repentance from here on out, comes through our abiding in his spiritual life. Only in this way do we benefit from his atonement and receive eternal life.

"When you say Jesus did not become "sin" for us, you are in effect denying that he became the source of our atonement. He went through suffering and death to make himself available to sinners who repent *in his name.* To repent apart from his name is to deny the necessity of his atonement."

Let me encourage you today to "walk in the Spirit," which doesn't mean that you have to receive mental impressions of what course to take each day, but rather, that we receive in our conscience a sense of how to behave in our decision-making in the spirit of God's love. Do this, and you will be blessed. Suffer for it, and you will be blessed even more!

"Imputed righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus credited to the Christian, enabling the Christian to be justified. Double imputation refers to the imputation of believers' sin to Christ and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to believers."

He never became sin.

JIMINZ · Sep 29, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
"Imputed righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus credited to the Christian, enabling the Christian to be justified. Double imputation refers to the imputation of believers' sin to Christ and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to believers."

He never became sin.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It's not imputed, we become the Righteousness of God in Christ, We are IN Christ

Maria Billingsley · Sep 29, 2021

JIMINZ said:
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;
that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It's not imputed, we become the Righteousness of God in Christ, We are IN Christ

Jesus is called the Lamb of God in John 1:29 and John 1:36, it is referring to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin not a representation of sin. There is a textual misunderstanding in the verse people keep posting.

JIMINZ · Sep 29, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
Jesus is called the Lamb of God in John 1:29 and John 1:36, it is referring to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin not a representation of sin. There is a textual misunderstanding in the verse you keep posting.

I only posted that verse 1 time and it was to you.

Maria Billingsley · Sep 29, 2021

JIMINZ said:
I only posted that verse 1 time and it was to you.

sorry I changed it to "people".

RandyPNW · Sep 29, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
"Imputed righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus credited to the Christian, enabling the Christian to be justified. Double imputation refers to the imputation of believers' sin to Christ and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to believers."

He never became sin.

Yep, that's what I said. Jesus was sinless. However, the punishment of sin was visited upon him so that he bore the punishment for *our* sin. Thanks.

RandyPNW · Sep 29, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
That debate should have been ended fairly quickly with 2 Corinthians 5:21

True that is. It never ceases to amaze me how some Christians long to have some special insight of their own. In trying to hold to the words of Scripture, "he became sin," and "he knew no sin," he thought he had a new revelation, which someone else shared with him. He thought that others were falsely accusing him of being a sinner. This, of course, was true. But it wasn't the meaning of "he became sin." Thanks.

This is what the brother recently said to me:

"And when God sent a dear believer to correct me, I argued with him for months. I didn't look at the scriptures he showed me. I simply ignored them, repearing the dogma I was conditioned by and that's what's happening here, but once I actually dealt directly with the scriptures I was being shown, instead of posting scripture that seemed contradictory, everything fell iperfectly nto place.

But you're right about citing partial scripture, where the true meaning gets lost. Even Paul saying Jesus became a curse for us is a good example that. Look closely at the OT passage he's referring to. He isn't saying Jesus was accursed by God. He's saying Jesus was thought by to be accursed by the religious leaders who condemned him,

He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psa.22:8, Mt.27:43

In other words, he's accursed of God."

Though I don't think he's entirely accurate, I think he's coming closer to my position.

spiritfilledjm · Sep 30, 2021

RandyPNW said:
True that is. It never ceases to amaze me how some Christians long to have some special insight of their own. In trying to hold to the words of Scripture, "he became sin," and "he knew no sin," he thought he had a new revelation, which someone else shared with him. He thought that others were falsely accusing him of being a sinner. This, of course, was true. But it wasn't the meaning of "he became sin." Thanks.

This is what the brother recently said to me:

"And when God sent a dear believer to correct me, I argued with him for months. I didn't look at the scriptures he showed me. I simply ignored them, repearing the dogma I was conditioned by and that's what's happening here, but once I actually dealt directly with the scriptures I was being shown, instead of posting scripture that seemed contradictory, everything fell iperfectly nto place.

But you're right about citing partial scripture, where the true meaning gets lost. Even Paul saying Jesus became a curse for us is a good example that. Look closely at the OT passage he's referring to. He isn't saying Jesus was accursed by God. He's saying Jesus was thought by to be accursed by the religious leaders who condemned him,

He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psa.22:8, Mt.27:43

In other words, he's accursed of God."

Though I don't think he's entirely accurate, I think he's coming closer to my position.

The way I look at that whole debate is this, Jesus went to the cross like it was a courtroom. He said every sin ever committed on earth was His fault, He committed it all, He pled guilty. Even though He didn't commit a single sin, He received the label of sinner. He took the punishment we so justly deserved so that we might live. Did He ever commit a sin, no, He just took it all upon Himself and sacrificed Himself to save us.

Maria Billingsley · Sep 30, 2021

RandyPNW said:
Yep, that's what I said. Jesus was sinless. However, the punishment of sin was visited upon him so that he bore the punishment for *our* sin. Thanks.

Then claiming He " became sin" is in error. Blessings.

Maria Billingsley · Sep 30, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
The way I look at that whole debate is this, Jesus went to the cross like it was a courtroom. He said every sin ever committed on earth was His fault, He committed it all, He pled guilty. Even though He didn't commit a single sin, He received the label of sinner. He took the punishment we so justly deserved so that we might live. Did He ever commit a sin, no, He just took it all upon Himself and sacrificed Himself to save us.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is our Advocate with the Father. In a courtroom He would be our Lawyer and we would be on the stand. It is such a disturbing read...."Jesus being labeled a sinner". This is a distortion.....I guess that's why it is highly debated. Blessings.

Edit: Honestly I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that He "bore", carried ,our sins rather than "become" sin. It's so simple.

spiritfilledjm · Sep 30, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
Jesus Christ of Nazareth is our Advocate with the Father. In a courtroom He would be our Lawyer and we would be on the stand. It is such a disturbing read...."Jesus being labeled a sinner". This is a distortion.....I guess that's why it is highly debated. Blessings.

In the courtroom of God, He will be our Lawyer. In the courtroom of the world however, He was the criminal, who was innocent, but pled guilty so that we may not have to take the punishment for the crimes we've committed.

Maria Billingsley · Sep 30, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
In the courtroom of God, He will be our Lawyer. In the courtroom of the world however, He was the criminal, who was innocent, but pled guilty so that we may not have to take the punishment for the crimes we've committed.

I disagree brother.
Blessings.

RandyPNW · Sep 30, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
Then claiming He " became sin" is in error. Blessings.

No, saying Jesus "became sin" is using a literary device that you wrongly take ultra-literally, when it was intended to indicate Jesus was made a "sin sacrifice." He became the source of eternal atonement because only in him was life given to us that covers our sins completely. We cannot obtain salvation apart from him--he had to be "made sin" in order to buy us our redemption.

prophecy_uk · Oct 5, 2021

Yes the purpose of people is to try to speak something with which they can claim to have some importance to teach you with.

The devil did the same in the beginning, trying to correct Gods word, with words that are death literally. Enough of satan and his teachers we are told..

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Jesus became flesh, that is enough to know that Jesus came to where we, as flesh are, and why we as flesh are without hope of life, as it is not in the flesh. Jesus dies, as evil man hates the good, but that releases the Spirit, who then returns to Heaven to draw us up to Him, away from the devils deceit and all that will remain in the flesh. The Spirit enters man, through belief in what Jesus had to come to do, ( this is how we believe in and know of the love of God so we do the same) and then that is to grow in the knowledge of Him, into a perfect man..

Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

Growing in the Spirit

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