How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

[tonychanyt]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. ...
50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

Note that the Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this then?

Jesus explains;

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the physical bread turn into the physical flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

 

[HTacianas]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:

Note that the Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this then?

Jesus explains;

We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

We do not know how the bread and wine become the body and blood, only that it does. It is a mystery. The Roman Church used the philosophical construct transubstantiation in an attempt to explain it.

 

[tonychanyt]

We do not know how the bread and wine become the body and blood, only that it does. It is a mystery. The Roman Church used the philosophical construct transubstantiation in an attempt to explain it.

Do you believe their explanation?

 

[AlexB23]

We do not know how the bread and wine become the body and blood, only that it does. It is a mystery. The Roman Church used the philosophical construct transubstantiation in an attempt to explain it.

What is your opinion on Eucharistic miracles? Extremely rarely bread can bleed, and turn physically into flesh. Biologists did a few tests on some Eucharistic miracles and have determined that the flesh on the bread was real, and came from a man who was tortured. I made a post on that on Mr. Chan's thread, This is my body or represents my body?

 

[HTacianas]

What is your opinion on Eucharistic miracles? Extremely rarely bread can bleed, and turn physically into flesh. Biologists did a few tests on some Eucharistic miracles and have determined that the flesh on the bread was real, and came from a man who was tortured. I made a post on that on Mr. Chan's thread, This is my body or represents my body?

I avoid commenting on miracles of any sort. The reason is that if a miracle is something staged or a fraud, I don't want anyone to fall for it. But if a miracle is real, it may be the work of the Holy Spirit, and I do not want to claim any act of the Spirit to be false. I prefer the Roman Church's statement on some miracles, that being they "are worthy of belief". They may or may not be real but some are worthy of belief.

 

[HTacianas]

Do you believe their explanation?

I personally have no opinion on transubstantiation itself. I know that the bread and wine become the body and blood and it is an act of God. Going any further into it than that only leads to heresy.

 

[AlexB23]

I avoid commenting on miracles of any sort. The reason is that if a miracle is something staged or a fraud, I don't want anyone to fall for it. But if a miracle is real, it may be the work of the Holy Spirit, and I do not want to claim any act of the Spirit to be false. I prefer the Roman Church's statement on some miracles, that being they "are worthy of belief". They may or may not be real but some are worthy of belief.

I agree with you 100%, and sadly don't believe many modern miracles, as we have the technology to stage them or fake them, and only make sure they are verified, or if science can prove it. However, the tech to fuse bread with flesh would be near improbable, if not impossible to do with early 21st century technology. Maybe if we had Star Trek replicators (fictional machines from that franchise that materialize matter, a type of 3d printer that can manipulate atoms), but not in 2023.

 

[rturner76]

It doesn't

It doesn't for you because you have not been accepted into the Catholic Church. Protestants see communion as a symbolic gesture but Catholics receive the actual flesh and blood of the living Christ. Enjoy your bread and wine (or grape juice) while we enjoy the Eucharist (flesh and blood) Christ has provided through his Priests. I love the feeling I get when I imbibe the living God into my body and spirit. Enjoy your grape juice while I enjoy the flesh and blood of the living Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:

Note that the Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this then?

Jesus explains;

We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

The bread of life discourse came the next day after they ate the bread and fish and after Jesus has crossed over to Capernaum. So the bread that was multiplied was not the bread Jesus was talking about. The reason Jesus gave the bread of life discourse was to separate the chaff from the wheat. That was the whole purpose of telling them “anyone who eats My flesh and drinks My blood will have eternal life”. He knew that it would cause the unbelievers to leave except for Judas of course. But the bread of life discourse was metaphorical for humbling ourselves to Him and believing. Hence “He who comes to Me will never hunger and he who believes in Me will never thirst”. He gave a similar analogy to the Samaritan woman at the well back in John 4.

“but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.””
‭‭John‬ ‭4‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Another reason that the bread of life discourse cannot be literal is because Judas received the Eucharist from Jesus Himself in the upper room before he left to betray Jesus. The reason Judas was not saved was because he did not believe. If the bread of life discourse was intended to be literal then Judas would’ve been saved but because it was metaphorical for believing in Christ he wasn’t.

 

[tonychanyt]

It doesn't for you because you have not been accepted into the Catholic Church.

Let proposition P1 = The physical bread turns into the physical flesh of Christ.

True?

 

[rturner76]

Let proposition P1 = The physical bread turns into the physical flesh of Christ.

True?

True, it is the flesh of Christ but it is called a mystery why it tastes like bread. Anything is possible with God do you agree?

 

[tonychanyt]

True, it is the flesh of Christ but it is called a mystery why it tastes like bread.

The physical bread turns into the physical flesh of Christ.

This is scientifically testable. Have any scientists found this to be true?

 

[rturner76]

The physical bread turns into the physical flesh of Christ.

This is scientifically testable. Have any scientists found this to be true?

No. just God. Who do you trust more? Do you believe the bread and wine are flesh and blood or just a symbol of flesh and blood? Is that what Christ said? No, he said this IS my flesh and blood, not a symbol of it. It is a mystery of faith that you don't ascribe to. Enjoy your symbolism and I will enjoy the flesh and blood of the living God.

 

[tonychanyt]

No. just God.

You believe that the physical bread turns into the physical flesh of Christ when it is scientifically testable and no scientists have ever confirmed that is true?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

"This is my body" is a figure of speech called a synecdoche. Substituting a part for the whole. The "bread" as the demonstrable pronoun is a part which is substituted of the whole of Christ's body. There is no change in material substance. Faith believes the bread is the body.

We just trust in the words of Scripture the bread is the body. Scriptures ask us to believe much that is difficult. But Scripture being a supernatural book as God's relevation, this should not be too hard for Christians to believe.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:

Note that the Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this then?

Jesus explains;

We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

His Body and Blood represent His Holy Spirit. This is the only, the one and only, time a believer receives Him upon conversion. He makes His Home in the believer in this manner . Jesus Christ of Nazareth, His Blood and Body, is His Holy Spirit. Blessings.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

His Body and Blood represent His Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is not even mentioned in the three synoptic gospel passages concerning the Lord's Supper. Please cite chapter and verse along with explanation why the Holy Spirit could possibly be present here.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Holy Spirit is not even mentioned in the three synoptic gospel passages concerning the Lord's Supper. Please cite chapter and verse along with explanation why the Holy Spirit could possibly be present here.

If you believe Jesus Christ of Nazareth has a Spirit, The Spirit of Christ ", then entertain maybe the (His) Holy Spirit is what He is referring to when taking His Body and Blood internally. There are many scriptures about His Holy Spirit. We can start with Isaiah 9.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”

and...

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

If you believe Jesus Christ of Nazareth has a Spirit, The Spirit of Christ ", then entertain maybe the (His) Holy Spirit is what He is referring to when taking His Body and Blood internally. There are many scriptures about His Holy Spirit. We can start with Isaiah 9.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”

and...

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

The first rule of interpreting Scripture is context, context, context.

If for example, if I want to study the work of the Holy Spirit I would go to Jesus' preaching about the person and the work of the the Holy Spirit in John 15-18. I don't go the genealogies of Jesus to see if they teach something about the HS or even worse make up something about the work of the HS in the genealogical texts.

Concerning the work of the HS in the Lord's Supper I would NOT go to:

• The creation accounts that speak of the HS brooding over the waters.
• Phillip after his baptizing the Ethiopian, he was brought to by the HS to Azotus.

However, you have quoted:

• Is. 9 which has NOTHING to do with the work of the HS.
• You quoted John 14:23 which also has NOTHING to do with the work of the HS.

This is plain gibberish.

I am going to NARROW down this next question to the actual location of the text of instiution of the Lord' Supper, so anybody can comprehend it: SPECIFICALLY WHERE IN MT. 26:26-29, MK 14: 22-25 OR LK 24: 21-23, IS THE MENTION OF THE HS.

Please give exact specificity.

Your replies to me are nonsensical.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The first rule of interpreting Scripture is context, context, context.

If for example, if I want to study the work of the Holy Spirit I would go to Jesus' preaching about the person and the work of the the Holy Spirit in John 15-18. I don't go the genealogies of Jesus to see if they teach something about the HS or even worse make up something about the work of the HS in the genealogical texts.

Concerning the work of the HS in the Lord's Supper I would NOT go to:

• The creation accounts that speak of the HS brooding over the waters.
• Phillip after his baptizing the Ethiopian, he was brought to by the HS to Azotus.

However, you have quoted:

• Is. 9 which has NOTHING to do with the work of the HS.
• You quoted John 14:23 which also has NOTHING to do with the work of the HS.

This is plain gibberish.

I am going to NARROW down this next question to the actual location of the text of instiution of the Lord' Supper, so anybody can comprehend it: SPECIFICALLY WHERE IN MT. 26:26-29, MK 14: 22-25 OR LK 24: 21-23, IS THE MENTION OF THE HS.

Please give exact specificity.

Your replies to me are nonsensical.

ok