Biden Drops the Hammer on Unvaccinated

Belk said:

I lack the expertise to have an informed opinion on the article. How about you? Do you believe yourself to have the knowledge to determine who is a "so called" expert on viral immunology

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I tend to believe this guy:

Dr. Malone is an impeccably credentialed scientist. He helped pioneer the mRNA vaccine technology upon which the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based.
"Every drug or vaccine is toxic at some level in some percent of people, and there’s pretty clear evidence that the spike protein expressed from vaccines is causing toxicity in a small subset of patients. The question is, How big is that subset, and how broad and bad are those toxicities? The honest truth is, we don’t know. And furthermore, there’s a lot of signs that that information is being withheld from us."

pitabread said:

Especially in the context of the fact that vaccine side-effects are significantly lower in risk that the disease they are designed to prevent.

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Again we don't know that.

renniks said:

I tend to believe this guy:

Dr. Malone is an impeccably credentialed scientist. He helped pioneer the mRNA vaccine technology upon which the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based.
"Every drug or vaccine is toxic at some level in some percent of people, and there’s pretty clear evidence that the spike protein expressed from vaccines is causing toxicity in a small subset of patients. The question is, How big is that subset, and how broad and bad are those toxicities? The honest truth is, we don’t know. And furthermore, there’s a lot of signs that that information is being withheld from us."

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So that is a yes. All you needed to say.

dogs4thewin said:

and that is fine but when you make that decision you should not come then wanting treatment and costing other people resources because of YOUR choice. Healthcare is being rationed in some areas people are dying of non-co-vid related things because mostly un-vaxed people are taking up beds. You make that choice fine, but be man or woman enough to die for it if you get ill to that extent.

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There's still room in our hospitals. And don't be absurd.
If I needed treatment I would seek treatment.

renniks said:

Again we don't know that.

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Based on current data and clinical studies, yes we do.

TLK Valentine said:

Enjoy your livestock dewormer.

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It is used as a livestock dewormer. It is also used to treat fleas, ticks and lice in dogs and cats.
It has been used, for years, as an anti parasitic in humans. Especially in African countries.
It is cheap, safe and effective. Not just a horse wormer.

I like this site. It's unbiased, informative and thorough.

JacksBratt said:

It is used as a livestock dewormer. It is also used to treat fleas, ticks and lice in dogs and cats.
It has been used, for years, as an anti parasitic in humans. Especially in African countries.
It is cheap, safe and effective. Not just a horse wormer.

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De-wormer. Why anyone would want to get "wormed" is beyond me.

Enjoy your flea bath, then.

I like this site. It's unbiased, informative and thorough.

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Do you like your family physician?

TLK Valentine said:

Enjoy your livestock dewormer.

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From 2011, well before Ivermectin became political:

Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world. Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. This paper looks in depth at the events surrounding ivermectin’s passage from being a huge success in Animal Health into its widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a “wonder” drug.

There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people. Several extensive reports, including reviews authored by us, have been published detailing the events behind the discovery, development and commercialization of the avermectins and ivermectin (22,23-dihydroavermectin B), as well as the donation of ivermectin and its use in combating Onchocerciasis and lymphatic filariasis.1–6) However, none have concentrated in detail on the interacting sequence of events involved in the passage of the drug into human use.
...
Ivermectin proved to be even more of a ‘Wonder drug’ in human health, improving the nutrition, general health and wellbeing of billions of people worldwide ever since it was first used to treat Onchocerciasis in humans in 1988. It proved ideal in many ways, being highly effective and broad-spectrum, safe, well tolerated and could be easily administered (a single, annual oral dose). It is used to treat a variety of internal nematode infections, including Onchocerciasis, Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, cutaneous larva migrans, filariases, Gnathostomiasis and Trichuriasis, as well as for oral treatment of ectoparasitic infections, such as Pediculosis (lice infestation) and scabies (mite infestation).14) Ivermectin is the essential mainstay of two global disease elimination campaigns that should soon rid the world of two of its most disfiguring and devastating diseases, Onchocerciasis and Lymphatic filariasis, which blight the lives of billions of the poor and disadvantaged throughout the tropics.

Ivermectin, ‘Wonder drug’ from Japan: the human use perspective (nih.gov)

Keep calling it "horse dewormer" and then turn around and exclaim "follow the science". Those who use that phrase to describe ivermectin are outing themselves as politically-driven, not science-driven.

pitabread said:

It's flawed logic.

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Flawed logic is when you claim that it's not the case that side effects are almost always found out very quickly, and then when shown that not to be the case, claim it's irrelevant anyway.

pitabread said:

I never suggested that we know the full scope of the side effects.

Rather, I'm trying to assess the validity of the fear-mongering from people worried that taking the vaccine will cause their arms to fall off 5 years down the road.

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Why don't you assess the validity of fear mongering of "the unvaccinated will cause variants", when the vaccinated get infected with high frequency as well. High rates of public exposure is a more significant factor in determining the size of one's transmission vector, yet the outcry isn't against those who engage in these risky behaviors, it's against the unvaccinated.

pitabread said:

Especially in the context of the fact that vaccine side-effects are significantly lower in risk that the disease they are designed to prevent.

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Not necessarily in all groups. For children and the previously infected, the cost benefit analysis is at best questionable in terms of impact vs. side-effects.

whatbogsends said:

From 2011, well before Ivermectin became political:

Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world. Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found. This paper looks in depth at the events surrounding ivermectin’s passage from being a huge success in Animal Health into its widespread use in humans, a development which has led many to describe it as a “wonder” drug.

There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people. Several extensive reports, including reviews authored by us, have been published detailing the events behind the discovery, development and commercialization of the avermectins and ivermectin (22,23-dihydroavermectin B), as well as the donation of ivermectin and its use in combating Onchocerciasis and lymphatic filariasis.1–6) However, none have concentrated in detail on the interacting sequence of events involved in the passage of the drug into human use.
...
Ivermectin proved to be even more of a ‘Wonder drug’ in human health, improving the nutrition, general health and wellbeing of billions of people worldwide ever since it was first used to treat Onchocerciasis in humans in 1988. It proved ideal in many ways, being highly effective and broad-spectrum, safe, well tolerated and could be easily administered (a single, annual oral dose). It is used to treat a variety of internal nematode infections, including Onchocerciasis, Strongyloidiasis, Ascariasis, cutaneous larva migrans, filariases, Gnathostomiasis and Trichuriasis, as well as for oral treatment of ectoparasitic infections, such as Pediculosis (lice infestation) and scabies (mite infestation).14) Ivermectin is the essential mainstay of two global disease elimination campaigns that should soon rid the world of two of its most disfiguring and devastating diseases, Onchocerciasis and Lymphatic filariasis, which blight the lives of billions of the poor and disadvantaged throughout the tropics.

Ivermectin, ‘Wonder drug’ from Japan: the human use perspective (nih.gov)

Keep calling it "horse dewormer" and then turn around and exclaim "follow the science". Those who use that phrase to describe ivermectin are outing themselves as politically-driven, not science-driven.

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This was the most informative article I've seen to date, and I thank you.

TLK Valentine said:

De-wormer. Why anyone would want to get "wormed" is beyond me.

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Well there was that one episode of Futurama...

whatbogsends said:

Flawed logic is when you claim that it's not the case that side effects are almost always found out very quickly, and then when shown that not to be the case, claim it's irrelevant anyway.

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That was never my claim.

My question was around the notion of long-term side effects. IOW, get a vaccine today and 5 years later some side effect arises from it.

This was never about when side effects were being discovered. It was about how long it takes side effects to emerge.

Hopefully this is clear.

Why don't you assess the validity of fear mongering of "the unvaccinated will cause variants", when the vaccinated get infected with high frequency as well.

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From the data I've seen, the relative number of vaccinated individuals contracting the virus is much lower. Claiming that vaccinated people are being infected in a "high frequency" is misleading.

See this UK study for example: Risk factors and disease profile of post-vaccination SARS-CoV-2 infection in UK users of the COVID Symptom Study app: a prospective, community-based, nested, case-control study

The rate of infection following full vaccination was well under 1%.

Not necessarily in all groups. For children and the previously infected, the cost benefit analysis is at best questionable in terms of impact vs. side-effects.

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Possibly, although I don't believe there is any definitive word on this yet.

Clizby WampusCat said:

More excuses not to try?

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present us with your solution. I have provided mine, and it will work.

renniks said:

Helping myself means taking an unproven drug? I try to avoid drugs as much as possible.

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the covid vaccines are not unproven. they have been verified to provide robust protection against covid. pfizwr is fully approved by the FDA, and moderna is likely not far behind

Clizby WampusCat said:

Yes, but Biden has never tried to convince people to take the vaccine.

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That's not true, e.g. Remarks by President Biden on the COVID-19 Response and the Vaccination Program | The White House