What is a Beast in Prophetic Scripture

DavidPT said:

Here's a question, then.

If no literal mark of any kind is involved, how is it some can be killed for refusing to worship the image of the beast?

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Sorry, I was busy with errands. Sorry about the length of my response but hope it helps some.

First, the Lord our God has commanded us to watch for ourselves. It does not mean sticking our heads in the proverbial sand, ignoring Scripture in some misguided sense that "we will understand it better by and by." There is only one word I can use for that, and the word is "FOOLISH!"

Proverbs 12:15

• "The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise."

With all due respect, we don't define terms by what seems right in our own eyes, but by scripture. This "watching" we are to do clearly does not speak of neglecting the study of scripture or blinding ourselves to the physical "signs," or of today's slothful indifference to the abominations. It speaks to being prepared so that when the thief comes, he will not catch us unaware and break up our house. Being "prepared" doesn't mean sticking our heads into the proverbial sand, neglecting the consideration of pertinent scripture in some misguided and reckless notion of "what is Christian responsibility." We don't replace sound exegesis with the singing Kumbaya! ...as is the manner of most Christians today.

As I have explained earlier, the evil beasts are images in Scripture that often signify the carnal (fleshly), beastly, dangerous nature of man. It is sometimes used to signify evil Kingdoms or wicked carnal individuals within the kingdom. For example, King David admitted:

Psalms 73:22

• "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."

It is my position that beasts are often used in Scripture to signify the animalistic flesh-driven nature of man. Without Christ, man is as a creature or beast without conscience or wisdom, and like a beast, his driving force is to devour. It is often used to represent kingdoms or individuals as a token of those who live by the flesh (carnal nature) rather than the Spirit. I also believe that in Revelation chapter 13 God uses this imagery to paint a portrait of the carnal kingdom of Satan, as well as the false prophets who he empowers to devour.

Revelation 13:1-2

• "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
• And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

Without going into too much detail, the sea is often used in Scripture as a synonym for the deep, bottomless pit or abyss, the spiritual place where this evil spirit resides ready to be loosed upon man at any moment. The first beast is the body of the antichrist (his kingdom) that was wounded at Christ's death and resurrection. The heads in Scripture often signify authority, and the number 7 is the perfect number of completeness. Thus I believe that the 7 heads represent Satan's authority to rule as the prince of this world throughout time (7 mountains = 7 kingdoms). Horns in Scripture often signify the power of whatever is in view, as the horn that was broken in Daniel (meaning his power was broken). The number 10 signifies the fullness of whatever is in view. In this instance, the 10 horns signify the fullness of Satan's "power" over men to rule for a short period of time prior to Second Coming. This is what the Little Horn signifies, not a man like some people believe. The fullness and rule of this period are also spoken of in Scripture as "one hour." Thus these 10 horns rule (as kings) with the beast kingdom for one hour. And their crowns again illustrate they reign with him. For example, crowns are for kings.

Revelation 17:12

• "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

This also shows clearly that the first beast (with these 10 horns) spans the completeness (7) of time, and near the end of this time (the 1 hour of God's judgment) when the church becomes spiritually Babylon, these 10 kings will reign with him for this short period (little season KJV) after Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit. This is when the wound of the head was healed. It is the power of Satan to deceive the nations once again, which was before taken away (when Satan was bound) by Christ. At this time when Satan is loosed (the head would be healed), he again goes out to gather together and deceive the nations to bring them up against the camp of the saints.

Revelation 13:3

• "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Christ, of course, wounded him by the cross, and also loses or heals that wound AFTER ALL ELECT of the congregation of Israel are sealed, Revelation 7:1-4, so that He might bring judgment upon the unfaithful (spiritual harlot) church.

Revelation 13:4-5

• "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
• And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

Under the authority of Satan, these kings (false prophets and christs) rule and go to make war against the camp of the saints (the church), it is judged by God for its abominations, after which is the return of Christ on the clouds of glory. Christ wounds the head and Christ heals that wound, to the glory of God.

Psalms 68:20-22

• "He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.
• But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
• The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:"

Compare Revelation 17:8,11 of, "the beast that was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit." In other words, this is the Beast, this is the power of Satan as he brought Old Testament Israel into apostasy, as Christ defeated him, and as he again ascends out of the bottomless pit to attack, this time, with the NEW TESTAMENT ISRAEL, the CHURCH. Just as a ravenous beast would attack the sheep in a fold, so Satan comes as an adversary of the house of God. Satan was because He ruled before Christ bound him. He is not because Christ bound Him. And now he has ascended out of the pit because Christ loses him to be used as a judgment upon the unfaithful congregation, the EXTERNAL or CORPORATE CHURCH making up of PROFESSED CHRISTIANS who have not yet sealed by God so they will not find salvation during the short period of Satan's full power:

Rev 9:4-6
(4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
(5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

They may have desire to be saved or seek salvation but they could not find it because it is TOO LATE. It is because God has secured all Elect He intended to seal has been sealed. Therefore, those professed Christians has become the ones without the seal of God that are subject to be deceived by Satan in the church! They are the ones who will worship the image of the beast. More on this later...

And Satan's ability to bring God's external church down was bound or restrained by Christ's binding Satan almost 2,000 years, but his loosening, after the millennial reign (after God sealed all of His people through the testimony of the church), allows this judgment, even as Old Testament Israel was judged. Thus the Gentile congregation is no better than the Jewish one. Apostasy knows no bounds. The blasphemies that come out of the mouth of the beast are his false teachings and contradictions forsaking the Word of God that the false prophets and christs in the church promotes! These are the great things he speaks that deceive and which Revelation 13 talks about.

Revelation 13:6-7

• "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
• And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Revelation 11:7-8
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

When the true testimony of Two Witmesses for the purpose of salvation to the world has been accomplished, their testimony is finished and the beast came out of bottomless pit start attacking them to overcome them and kill them. Not physically, but to silence their testimony in the church spiritually and replace it with false teachings and doctines. This, my friend, is the IMAGE of the beast where professed Christians will start to worship instead of the Truth. See?

Same as Revelation 20 when Satan is loosed from the Pit to make war with the saints.

Revelation 13:8-9

• "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
• If any man have an ear, let him hear."

If you have ear to hear, God is saying that whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb are those who does not yet have the seal of God! All of those within God's congregation who aren't sealed of God yet WORSHIPS the carnal, Pseudo or Antichrist instead of God. He has deceived them so that they serve him, thinking they do God service.

Revelation 13:10-11

• "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
• And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

The beast is responsible for bringing the deceived into SPIRITUAL captivity to ensure that they remain lost. John sees another vision of a beast coming up from the earth. The earth signifies they come up from the congregation of the world, and this beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon. This beast represents the false prophets of the congregations of the World! They come looking like they have the power (doctrines) of the Lamb, but what gives them away is that they speak as the Dragon, which is Satan. In other words, they appear as a messenger of light, but their gospel is false and of the adversary Satan. Selah!

The first beast, who the false prophets cause men to worship, represents the antichrist, or more to the point Satan's substitute kingdom. It is the body of false worshipers. Revelation is written this way because just as the true church is represented by the body of Christ, and the Old Testament congregation by the body of Moses, the false congregation is seen as the body of the anti (substitute) or false Christ. The false prophets are those who cause the unfaithful to depart from Scripture and worship Him instead. All Israel who are not yet sealed unto the day of redemption.

Revelation 13:12-14

• "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
• And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
• And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

The deadly wound was given to the beast who is to be worshiped at the cross. Christ dealt the adversary a death wound so that he could not deceive the nations while Christ built His Church! This is the purpose of the millennial kingdom that the 1,000 years symbolically! (and the church could be built), but at this time Satan is loosed from his prison. This is spoken of as the deadly wound being healed, and the reason is so that the unfaithful people of the congregation (the world is already in Satan's camp) might again serve him (as judgment). The false prophets, the second beast, deceive the unfaithful people and seduce them into serving this antichrist kingdom by means of false miracles, signs, and wonders. Remember, Christ was bound for the specific purpose of the nations not being deceived. Now that He is loosed, his false prophets again deceive the nations, in order to usher in the Lord's second coming.

Revelation 13:15-16

• " And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
• And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

The false prophets give life to the likeness (image)of the Antichrist by propagating their false teachings, which leads to them overcoming the church and causing all the faithful therein (the two witnesses) to be killed (silenced). Those remaining as a judgment of God are said to be marked on their hand (not literally as some suppose, but spiritually) signifying their will belongs to them, and in their forehead, signifying their mind is sold out to Satan. Just as a cow is branded or marked to signify ownership, so this signifies these unsealed are slaves to the antichrist.

Revelation 13:17-18

• "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
• Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Note, it is NOT the number of "a" man as may be written in your "translation," but the original says it is the number "of Man," signifying the lawless man (man of sin) or man of lawlessness. God sees EVERY UNSAVED INDIVIDUAL as a man of lawlessness. The buying and selling signify the work of the church, and no one can work there except those who have been spiritually marked (being deceived) slaves of Satan, by belief false prophets/christs' doctrines. The mark God tells us is 666, the number of man (not a man).

If you want to know more about the image of the beast in depth, let me know.

Dave L said:

One possibility is that disobedience to sinful laws would separate the wheat from the chaff. If you look for this now you can see it happening. Obama's sinful laws brought isolation and persecution of Christian business owners who refused to uphold them. All who approved have the MOTB.

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Mat 24:15-16
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

2Th 2:7-11
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Dave, keep in mind that the location of the abomination of desolation and the enforce of the mark of the beast will not be found in Capitol Hill, New York, Rome, or physical Jerusalem. It is the New Testament congregation with churches found all over the world. Nothing to do with politics.

Jesus warned that only His people "whoso readeth, let him understand" will be able to spiritually discerned where the holy place is. The only Holy Place on this side of the Cross is the New Testament congregation, the Church. Not the physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East. The church is where false prophets and christs are that deceive many people with their false doctrines. This is where God has caused all professed Christians WITHIN the churches all over the world WHO HAVE NOT YET SEALED BY GOD (Revelation 7:1-4, 9:4-6) to BELIEVE A LIE that comes out of the mouths of false prophets so they will worship the lies (images) of the beast.

This has NOTHING to do with political persecutions against Christian businesses which have been normative for believers since the Cross. The abomination of Desolation only occurs after Satan is loosened and working through false prophets and Christs within the congregation to deceive those who have not yet sealed of God.

Douggg said:

The image of the beast will be a statue made in the image of the beast person.

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I am sorry but that is not biblically correct. The image of the beast will not be made by man-made statue in Jerusalem. Let me explain...

The power is in their tongues. A false god can only come to life through the words of men, who speak, teach and propagate them. Satan works (speaks) through men, as they are the ones with the spirit of disobedience. In this cryptic imagery, Satan has given his children his number. That's also why God says it is the number of man (unsaved man). Because like being branded, they are indicated as slaves to Satan, constrained to do his will and spread false gospel into the congregation of God. The image of the beast is brought to life through the doctrines and teachings of the sinful man, or man of lawlessness (any way you want to translate it). Like I have explained, the second beast represents the false prophets of this kingdom. They have the power to give life to the the beast because their words are power! It's always been.

Note it says their power was "that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." Those who refuse to worship the image of the beast will be killed. If we will look at Revelation chapter 11, it is the false prophets and teachers who kill the two witnesses. And they kill them with false teachings that extinguish the true witness. It is because the truthful testimony of Two Witnesses has tormented the unrighteous "because" it was an offense to them. Just as Christ's Words tormented and made angry the rulers of Israel back in Christ's day! So Satan gave the power to the false prophets and christs to overcome the truthful testimony of two witnesses to silence (kill) them so that they can rejoice that they will no longer be tormented by the Truth and start exchange gifts (eg. buying and selling) the false doctrines as they please in God's Church!

It will come to life, abeit a lying miracle, when Satan is cast down to earth, and incarnates it. It will then breathe and speak (i.e. Satan his evil self).

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A physical statue made of stone or something that will "breath" and "speak" Sigh.

It could be remote forcing people, in the nations, to worship the image could take place as well.

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Let me ask you. Based on your doctrine, if the so-called antichrist soldiers capture Christian and place a physical mark on his right hand or forehead. Will this Christian automatically lose their salvation? Do you honestly think a physical mark has any power over the fate of a soul, really?

The mark of the beast is a different issue. It will be a means of controlling the world's population - by controlling their ability to buy or sell..

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Seriously? Ability to buy what? Ability to sell what? Explain it.

TribulationSigns said:

A physical statue made of stone or something that will "breath" and "speak" Sigh.

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Exactly! That is the whole point of the false prophet having the people of the earth to make the image.

That way there will be certainty that the image does not come to life by technological means.

TribulationSigns said:

Seriously? Ability to buy what? Ability to sell what? Explain it.

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You go to Walmart with your credit card or cash - and the clerk will not take allow your purchase without you showing one of those three requirements, on the forehead or right hand, the number of the beast's name, the name of the beast, or the mark of the beast's name.

TribulationSigns said:

Mat 24:15-16
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

2Th 2:7-11
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Dave, keep in mind that the location of the abomination of desolation and the enforce of the mark of the beast will not be found in Capitol Hill, New York, Rome, or physical Jerusalem. It is the New Testament congregation with churches found all over the world. Nothing to do with politics.

Jesus warned that only His people "whoso readeth, let him understand" will be able to spiritually discerned where the holy place is. The only Holy Place on this side of the Cross is the New Testament congregation, the Church. Not the physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East. The church is where false prophets and christs are that deceive many people with their false doctrines. This is where God has caused all professed Christians WITHIN the churches all over the world WHO HAVE NOT YET SEALED BY GOD (Revelation 7:1-4, 9:4-6) to BELIEVE A LIE that comes out of the mouths of false prophets so they will worship the lies (images) of the beast.

This has NOTHING to do with political persecutions against Christian businesses which have been normative for believers since the Cross. The abomination of Desolation only occurs after Satan is loosened and working through false prophets and Christs within the congregation to deceive those who have not yet sealed of God.

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The AoD happened with continued animal sacrifice after Christ went to the cross. AD 70 placed the reprobate Jews under wrath until the end of time.

I don't know but I lean towards the pope being one of them.

Douggg said:

Exactly! That is the whole point of the false prophet having the people of the earth to make the image.

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Of course not. See the problem is the lack of biblical exegesis on your part to find what God is talking about the "image". You need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

Look at Christians for example. Become born from above in His image and you can know yourself how it feels to be like Christ. For having the mind of Christ (1st Corinthians 2:15) is to be guided by His will and desire where we will be like Him. For He will come to live with you and dwell within you and move you to conform you to His image, that you surrender to the "authority" of His holy word. If we are to "be like Christ" then we should walk in newness of life and react to His word as if we had the mind of Christ.

Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

If we are conformed to the image of Christ, then quite "obviously" we are like Him, to teach like him, to speak like Him, and are to walk circumspectly.

Colossians 3:9-10

• "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
• And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

Yes, Christians "are" to be like Christ, and that is why they are called Christ-ians, followers in the likeness of Christ. Indeed God illustrates us even more personally as the actual "the body of Christ." And if we truly are, then Christ is our head or authority!

LIKEWISE with the image of the beast! He who hath an ear, let him hear.

That way there will be a certainty the image, a statue, does NOT come to life by technological means or supernatural means that God did NOT say.

Revelation 16:2

• "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."

Whether it is the image [eikon] of Christ or the image [eikon] of the beast, it is signifying the representation or likeness of that thing. For example, Scripture tells us Christ is the exact "image" of God. If we worship Christ, we are worshipping God. Likewise the "image" of the beast is that which represents or is a likeness of Satan. If we worship the image or that which is like Satan, we worship Satan. Colossians 1 tells us Christ is the image of God, and it is just to worship that image. The beast is the image of Satan, and it is unrighteous to worship that image.

By the Spirit, true believers are conformed to God's image, and the likeness or ima of the beast is what ALL the wicked by nature conform to. By nature they worship him because they are ruled over by him as we are by Christ, and they are slaves to him. Receiving the mark, name or number of the beast signifies professing servants of God have gone into apostasy, a falling away of God's people to the abominations taking place in the holy place.

You go to Walmart with your credit card or cash - and the clerk will not take allow your purchase without you showing one of those three requirements, on the forehead or right hand, the number of the beast's name, the name of the beast, or the mark of the beast's name.

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Based on what Scripture your doctrine is based on?! God did not talk about the things you need to buy with your right hand or forehead at Walmart. That is purely man-made fantasy that does not stand in the test of Scripture! This is not what image nor the mark of the beast the Lord is talking about. But that is what many foolish virgins believe anyway because they do not have spirit of Christ to see (discern) what God is really talking bout. That is why the doctrine of dispensationalism is popular in many churches all over the world for a reason. It is to deceive. To distract from the truth. To miss the true signs.

Dave L said:

The AoD happened with continued animal sacrifice after Christ went to the cross.

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No. First, the physical temple in 70AD was not holy to qualify to receive AOD on its mount. You got the wrong sacrifice.

See, the covenant that Christ confirmed at the Cross applies to the New Covenant, a last-will and Testament laving an inheritance far greater than a plot of dirt in the Middle East called Canaan. And that is what Old Covenant Israel (as well as Pre-millennialists) couldn't grasp. That they would never enter the promised land by law, but by Grace acquired in the New Testament of Christ. ..as they still do not grasp to this very day.

Galatians 3:16-18

• "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
• And this I say, that the Covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
• For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

The sacrifice and the oblation in Daniel 9:27 have NOTHING to do with Jewish sacrifice as some supposed, whether it's Preterism doctrine or Premillennialism doctrine. It is a picture of salvation during the New Testament era that Christ went on our behalf! Didn't you read the Scripture:

Hebrews 10:6-8

• "In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
• Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
• Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;"

Sacrifice and offering didn't cease at the cross, just as the law didn't cease at the cross. It was confirmed (satisfied) by the true sacrifice and offering. For example, Christ was the fulfillment of what was merely foreshadowing Him. As long as there is salvation on earth, sacrifice and offering continue.

We have biblical precedence that both the word "sacrifice" and "offering" are used in the scriptures signifying salvation, and also that it is used in the sense that there can be no more sacrifice and offering. A couple of examples would be as these words are used in Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:14

• "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

This offering is Christ, indicating that by this "perfect" and acceptable offering, men are saved. Likewise, sacrifice is used in the sense that there can be no salvation in Christ. For example:

Hebrews 10:26-27

• "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
• But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Here is sacrifice ceased...by Christ! It is used to illustrate the end of opportunity for salvation. Remember the salvation will end after Christ has secured ALL of His Elect first, then the sacrifice will cease because there will be no more salvation. That is what Daniel 9:27 pointed to. Christ is our sacrifice and offering, and when all the tribes of Israel are sealed, Revelation 7:1-4, There will be no more sacrifice and offering. At that time, there will be no more Salvation because Christ's work through the church is completed and "all" Israel will have been saved! Get it?!

In Hebrews 14:26-27 God uses the term "there remaineth no more sacrifice" as a synonym illustrating "Salvation will not be possible." Likewise, He uses the word "offering" illustrating the salvation of Christ. Therefore, taken along with all the scriptures that say that there is coming a time when the salvation of the Church is complete, I think we are justified in saying that a case can be made that the prophesy of "sacrifice and offering ceasing" illustrates a time when salvation ceases, not the time when people stop sacrificing animals. Context also supports this. Also we read in Matthew 24:

Matthew 24:21-22

• "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
• And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

There would be no flesh saved because if this evil time continued on without anyone being saved (because Sacrifice and offering had ceased), there would be no more Christians left to be rapture out when Christ came.

Revelation 7:4

• "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

After ALL, Israel is sealed, sacrifice has ceased because no one else is being sealed by the spirit. The number 144,000 signifies all Elect Christ has secured!

This is why the Two Witnesses (True Church) were empowered by God to bring salvation to the ends of the world for the whole New Testament period until we have reached the last Elect in God’s plan (Rev 11:3;7 and Rev 7:3). Jesus is our high priest, offering sacrifice for all Elects as long as He built His Church. Selah! This has nothing to do with Jewish animal sacrifice whatsoever.

After this, Jesus will allow sacrifice and the oblation to cease by releasing Satan from the bottomless pit. Because there will be no more sacrifice possible to make since there won’t be anyone left to be saved during the Great Tribulation. It will happen in the “midst of the week”. We don’t know exactly when, but most of us will know the seeing the SIGNS of time when we see the abomination of desolation taking place as predicted in Matthew 24:15-16. In the Church, not Jersualem in the Middle East!

It might be helpful if we study in Revelation 12 about the woman (Old Testament Church) and Man Child. Jesus Christ went up into heaven from Israel now that he has delivered Israel by the Cross. Then the woman (now became New Testament Church) goes into the wilderness where she is Nourished/Fed for time, times and a half. This time, times, and a half was what sacrifice and oblation referred to – the period of Salvation. But when time, times, and a half was over. In other word, when God have finish sealing his people, the sacrifice and oblation ceases. That was when we will have spiritual famine and that woman (Israel) is no longer protected from the face of the serpent because the devil has been loosened. This will be when the time, times, and the dividing of time spoke of in Daniel 8:25 which lasted a short season until the consummation.

Just The Facts said:

Hello All

What is a Beat in Prophetic Scripture? Is it a Person a Nation/ Kingdom or maybe Satan. Post Scripture to back your understanding please.

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In scripture, a beast is a kingdom that is founded by that kingdom's first king, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus the Great, Alexander the Great, Pompey the Great, etc. The kingdom has a rise and fall, and spans a length of time in power. This is seen in Daniel 7:23 where it says, "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.'"

Yet in Daniel 7:17 it says, "These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth." They were Nebuchadnezzar (Babylonian Empire), Cyrus the Great (Medo-Persian Empire), Alexander the Great (Greek Empire), and Pompey the Great (Roman Republic). So beasts refer to these kingdoms' first king, as well.

DavidPT said:

One thing we have to keep in mind though, the lake of fire is a real place and it is a place for punishment, and that the beast recorded in Revelation 13 it is cast into the LOF. The beast has to be a real entity of some sort, otherwise why does Revelation 19 indicate it is cast still alive at the time into the LOF?

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Because when I read Rev 13.1, and when looking at the "seven heads" reference, what comes to my mind is a "Group of Seven" or "G7".

I recall reading up on even Group of Ten, the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and so on. Then I was reading up on the BIS (Bank for International Settlements).

Entities don't have to necessarily be a person or a single being. You can have a business entity

Mind you, the description given in Rev 13.2, makes me think of the UK Coat of Arms, and the dragon reference, this could be a reference to the City of London? (I don't know).

alertandawake said:

Because when I read Rev 13.1, and when looking at the "seven heads" reference, what comes to my mind is a "Group of Seven" or "G7".

I recall reading up on even Group of Ten, the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and so on. Then I was reading up on the BIS (Bank for International Settlements).

Entities don't have to necessarily be a person or a single being. You can have a business entity

Mind you, the description given in Rev 13.2, makes me think of the UK Coat of Arms, and the dragon reference, this could be a reference to the City of London? (I don't know).

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The seven heads are seven "sequential" kings. 6 of those are historic to us. It is only king 7 is yet to come. He will be the one head mortally wounded but healed. To become the beast (the person).

Differently, the ten horns are ten kings that rule concurrently, i.e. at the same time with each other. And sharing one kingdom. Revelation 17:12

Their kingdom will be the kingdom of the beast.

Just The Facts said:

Hello All

What is a Beat in Prophetic Scripture? Is it a Person a Nation/ Kingdom or maybe Satan. Post Scripture to back your understanding please.

Click to expand...

the book of Daniel teaches us that beasts refer to nations/kingdoms/empires, specifically gentile empires, or also can represent specific kings, that are usually equated to those world empires.
Nebuchadnezzar is equated with Babylon even though Nebuchadnezzar was not the only king of Babylon.

but anyway, the principal scripture that teaches us the symbol of the beast, are Daniel 7, and Daniel 8

Daniel 7

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

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The explanation of the symbols, also from Daniel 7

15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

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Here it looks to specify kings.. but as we see, the kings are equated to the empires that they founded next

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

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So the founding king is equated with the empire itself, and the horns of the beasts are the individual kings/leaders of that empire.
This is important, that "beast" can be either the empire, or the leader of that empire equated with it.

as Daniel 8 has the 2 inappropriate behavior with animals symbols in it, equated with kings of empires, with the horns being specific kings.
I'm not going to quote Daniel 8 since it would be quoting the entire chapter.
But Daniel sees a vision of a Ram with 2 horns, and a Goat with 1 big horn that splinters into multiple horns including a little horn.
Now a lot of people think Daniel 8 was past prophecy fuflilled by Alexander the Great.
but Gabriel explains to Daniel multiple (3) times that this is an end times prophecy, and by no means was Alexander the great fulfilling the end times.
So I believe that was a partial fulfillment illustrating a future fulfillment.
In essence, Daniel 8 teaches that you will have Iran (Persia)/the Ram, with 2 leaders, 1 greater than the other. Currently Iran has a system in which they have a supreme leader Ayatollah, and then there is a civil government president. 1 Horn is larger than the other. So when this prophecy would be fulfilled in the end times, you might have a new Supreme Leader of Iran, and a president of Iran that had been there before the change of power in supreme leaders. Or it could be referring to the Supreme leader and the rise up of someone claiming to be the Mahdi/12th Imam which if accepted, would instantly be seen as superseding the Ayatollah.
Iran would be attacked and conquered from the west, now the translation reads Greece, but be conscious that the original language it's Yavan/Javan, which is referring to Northwest Turkey (an approximation would be Istanbul, which is where a "legitimate" new Caliphate would rule from). So it could be Turkey that is the he-goat, conquering Iran, and then the leader of Turkey being taken down, the Caliphate divided into 4 countries and the little horn (the Antichrist) arising from the southern chunk of it.

Remember, in Daniel 8 the big horn on the he goat is the FIRST King of Yavan.
Alexander wasn't even the first Alexander of Macedonia. he was Alexander III.
So my theory is.. Erdogan is waiting till 2023 to restart the Ottoman Empire/Caliphate, making himself the first Caliph, which would also be the 8th beast in Revelation 17, coming "of the 7" (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece (five are fallen), Rome (one is), and Ottoman Empires (the other is not yet come)).. and being "the beast that was, and is not". That said. Daniel 8 would give us that Erdogan would not be the Antichrist. the Caliph's Empire would be broken up.
It's the little horn AFTER that big horn is deposed that will be the final Antichrist.
anyway, Turkey pushing towards Iran, and overcoming them is what I see being foretold.

We'll see if Erdogan actually goes through with his aspirations of restarting the Caliphate in a few years I guess.
but he does have aspirations.

Revelation builds upon symbols first introduced by Daniel.

Douggg said:

The seven heads are seven "sequential" kings. 6 of those are historic to us. It is only king 7 is yet to come. He will be the one head mortally wounded but healed. To become the beast (the person).

Differently, the ten horns are ten kings that rule concurrently, i.e. at the same time with each other. And sharing one kingdom. Revelation 17:12

Their kingdom will be the kingdom of the beast.

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Incorrect, the Ottoman Empire was the 7th Empire referred to.
The 8th beast is the one in the future and it is a revived version of one or more of those past empires "of the seven".
I lean towards Ottoman
some people lean towards Rome
it could be both, or some other Amalgamation and will probably include territory from Iraq (Babylon), Syria (Assyria), Iran (Persia), Egypt, and Greece, along with more of Europe and north Africa (Rome)

All these long winded "spiritual" explanations
3 people let the bible define its own symbols and correctly identified Daniel 7.

TribulationSigns said:

No. First, the physical temple in 70AD was not holy to qualify to receive AOD on its mount. You got the wrong sacrifice.

See, the covenant that Christ confirmed at the Cross applies to the New Covenant, a last-will and Testament laving an inheritance far greater than a plot of dirt in the Middle East called Canaan. And that is what Old Covenant Israel (as well as Pre-millennialists) couldn't grasp. That they would never enter the promised land by law, but by Grace acquired in the New Testament of Christ. ..as they still do not grasp to this very day.

Galatians 3:16-18

• "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
• And this I say, that the Covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
• For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

The sacrifice and the oblation in Daniel 9:27 have NOTHING to do with Jewish sacrifice as some supposed, whether it's Preterism doctrine or Premillennialism doctrine. It is a picture of salvation during the New Testament era that Christ went on our behalf! Didn't you read the Scripture:

Hebrews 10:6-8

• "In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
• Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
• Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;"

Sacrifice and offering didn't cease at the cross, just as the law didn't cease at the cross. It was confirmed (satisfied) by the true sacrifice and offering. For example, Christ was the fulfillment of what was merely foreshadowing Him. As long as there is salvation on earth, sacrifice and offering continue.

We have biblical precedence that both the word "sacrifice" and "offering" are used in the scriptures signifying salvation, and also that it is used in the sense that there can be no more sacrifice and offering. A couple of examples would be as these words are used in Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:14

• "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

This offering is Christ, indicating that by this "perfect" and acceptable offering, men are saved. Likewise, sacrifice is used in the sense that there can be no salvation in Christ. For example:

Hebrews 10:26-27

• "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
• But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Here is sacrifice ceased...by Christ! It is used to illustrate the end of opportunity for salvation. Remember the salvation will end after Christ has secured ALL of His Elect first, then the sacrifice will cease because there will be no more salvation. That is what Daniel 9:27 pointed to. Christ is our sacrifice and offering, and when all the tribes of Israel are sealed, Revelation 7:1-4, There will be no more sacrifice and offering. At that time, there will be no more Salvation because Christ's work through the church is completed and "all" Israel will have been saved! Get it?!

In Hebrews 14:26-27 God uses the term "there remaineth no more sacrifice" as a synonym illustrating "Salvation will not be possible." Likewise, He uses the word "offering" illustrating the salvation of Christ. Therefore, taken along with all the scriptures that say that there is coming a time when the salvation of the Church is complete, I think we are justified in saying that a case can be made that the prophesy of "sacrifice and offering ceasing" illustrates a time when salvation ceases, not the time when people stop sacrificing animals. Context also supports this. Also we read in Matthew 24:

Matthew 24:21-22

• "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
• And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

There would be no flesh saved because if this evil time continued on without anyone being saved (because Sacrifice and offering had ceased), there would be no more Christians left to be rapture out when Christ came.

Revelation 7:4

• "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

After ALL, Israel is sealed, sacrifice has ceased because no one else is being sealed by the spirit. The number 144,000 signifies all Elect Christ has secured!

This is why the Two Witnesses (True Church) were empowered by God to bring salvation to the ends of the world for the whole New Testament period until we have reached the last Elect in God’s plan (Rev 11:3;7 and Rev 7:3). Jesus is our high priest, offering sacrifice for all Elects as long as He built His Church. Selah! This has nothing to do with Jewish animal sacrifice whatsoever.

After this, Jesus will allow sacrifice and the oblation to cease by releasing Satan from the bottomless pit. Because there will be no more sacrifice possible to make since there won’t be anyone left to be saved during the Great Tribulation. It will happen in the “midst of the week”. We don’t know exactly when, but most of us will know the seeing the SIGNS of time when we see the abomination of desolation taking place as predicted in Matthew 24:15-16. In the Church, not Jersualem in the Middle East!

It might be helpful if we study in Revelation 12 about the woman (Old Testament Church) and Man Child. Jesus Christ went up into heaven from Israel now that he has delivered Israel by the Cross. Then the woman (now became New Testament Church) goes into the wilderness where she is Nourished/Fed for time, times and a half. This time, times, and a half was what sacrifice and oblation referred to – the period of Salvation. But when time, times, and a half was over. In other word, when God have finish sealing his people, the sacrifice and oblation ceases. That was when we will have spiritual famine and that woman (Israel) is no longer protected from the face of the serpent because the devil has been loosened. This will be when the time, times, and the dividing of time spoke of in Daniel 8:25 which lasted a short season until the consummation.

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Jesus said to the disciples, when you see it, get out of town. You need to get your tie points in order.

TribulationSigns said:

Of course not. See the problem is the lack of biblical exegesis on your part to find what God is talking about the "image". You need to compare Scripture with Scripture.

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Before comparing scripture with scripture, the text of the verse itself has to be acknowledged in context.

You are not doing that. Look at what it says.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

It is not just one word "image" in verse 14.

In your version of comparing scripture to scripture, you are doing a one word search for "image" and then taking verses elsewhere in the bible that contain the one word "image" and doing a remake of the not only of verse 14, but to the whole context of Revelation 13.

Revelation 13 is about events that take place in the last 42 months before Jesus returns.

TribulationSigns said:

Based on what Scripture your doctrine is based on?! God did not talk about the things you need to buy with your right hand or forehead at Walmart.

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I gave you a tangible example of how the buying/selling control using the mark of the beast's name, the number of the beast's name, the beast name will a global law in that day, the 42 month rule of the beast.

kinda like - "mask up" is a global requirement today.

Jamdoc said:

Incorrect, the Ottoman Empire was the 7th Empire referred to.
The 8th beast is the one in the future and it is a revived version of one or more of those past empires "of the seven".

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It is seven kings in Revelation 17:10, not seven kingdoms.

The beast in Revelation 17:11, likewise, is a king, not a kingdom.

The little horn and the ten kings come out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.


The Turks (Ottoman empire), as well as, the British (empire) are not part of the prophecy.

Douggg said:

Before comparing scripture with scripture, the text of the verse itself has to be acknowledged in context.

You are not doing that. Look at what it says.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

It is not just one word "image" in verse 14.

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It is really too bad that you have refused to compare Scripture with Scripture for Truth like the Bereans. You do not like what the rest of Scripture has defined the image? Well, that is too bad. Because many people don't understand or discern what God has declared if they won't. And you also missed the other words, "beast," "sword", and "by the means of those miracles". It is not what you think it means "superficially" but requires to compare with the rest of Scripture. The book of Revelation is a SPIRITUAL book, like it or not.

In your version of comparing scripture to scripture, you are doing a one word search for "image" and then taking verses elsewhere in the bible that contain the one word "image" and doing a remake of the not only of verse 14, but to the whole context of Revelation 13.

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It is not my "remake" of verse 14 at all. It is God's definition based on His Scripture. Period.

Revelation 13 is about events that take place in the last 42 months before Jesus returns.

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Not 42 literal months. Truth is not something we have by taking all the numbers in scripture very literally, it is something given of the Spirit. Vis'a-vis, I don't presume to teach anyone God's 7 Spirits are not 7 literal ones, the 1000 years Satan was bound are not literal, 42 months treading down of the Holy Temple are not literal or 1260 days the woman is in the wilderness are not literal. That's God's work, not mine.

Again the book of Revelation is not a book to be taken literally, especially numbers!

Look at the context, the court is not literal, the Temple is not literal, the measuring is not literal, the 2 candlesticks and Olive trees are not literal, the 2 witnesses are not literal, the fire from their mouths is not literal, their death in the street is not literal, the thousand two hundred and threescore days they prophesy is not literal, nor the sackcloth they are clothed in. So we see a pattern here in Revelation? Just as the 1000 years Satan is bound is not literal, or the 1000 years we reign with Christ. So it would be out of character and out of context, for the 42 months to turn up as literal. The holy city they tread under foot is not literal, so neither is the 42 months they do it.

I gave you a tangible example of how the buying/selling control using the mark of the beast's name, the number of the beast's name, the beast name will a global law in that day, the 42 month rule of the beast. kinda like - "mask up" is a global requirement today.

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How does the word, "speculation" sounds to you? Nothing you have suggested has any biblical support at all. First, you do not show us biblically what is God's definition of the beast, Second, you do not know what is the spiritual signification of the right hand and forehead is in Scripture. Third, you do not know what the mark signifies. Fourth, you do not know what it means to buy and sell unless having the mark in a spiritual sense. So based on biblical exegesis, your example for literal approach is not even a good one, to begin with. You just assume what the mark may look like to make doctrine more exciting. You were reading newspapers, browsing YouTube, or sitting in front of TV for literal ideas without actually study Scripture. This is why you are trying to get an interpretation on one verse itself by acknowledged in "context" only so you can make up what it means to talk about. I have noticed that there are TONS of books and youtube garbage out there where people spewing their speculation on what they think the mark may be. They claim it may be a chip, coronavirus vaccine, UPC codes, global government, or even iPhones. Nothing new since the dawn of premillennial teaching.

Dave L said:

Jesus said to the disciples, when you see it, get out of town. You need to get your tie points in order.

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Really? That is all you think is what Christ talked about? Why don't check with the context and tell me what you think Christ talked about?

Mat 24:15-25
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(25) Behold, I have told you before.

Do you understand what Judaea signifies in the New Testament period? Do you know what housetop means? Why can't one come down to get anything out of his house. What house is it? Who are those in the field that are told not to return back to get his clothes. What clothes is it? Who is she that give sucks to a child? What does the winter and sabbath signifies that flight should not take place? Etc. etc.

Can you explain this biblically? Or will you only be suck with the literal interpretation which is easier for you (and for most people) or will you be a Bereans to study this with the rest of Scripture to discern what Christ really talked about? That is the question.

Douggg said:

It is seven kings in Revelation 17:10, not seven kingdoms.

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But do you know what the kings symbolically in Scripture? It is the RULE! Not a human individual who happens to be president of a certain country, blah blah.

Rev 17:9-11
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
(11) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The heads are in fact kings, just as the horns are, in fact, kings too! It is the same symbolic imagery and the same methodology applies. For example:

Rev 17:9-11
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
(11) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

The 7 heads (symbolizing authority) "are" also seven mountains (symbolizing kingdoms) are seven kings (symbolizing rule). So the seven heads (signifying authority and leadership) are all actually 7 kings (signifying rule). It is all interconnected symbolism. Not only is the 7 kings symbolic, but we read the 7 kings are 7 mountains, which is also symbolic. The 7 heads are actually seven periods of the authoritative rule of the beast, which in totality is its complete rule throughout time. That is what the number 7 signifies in Scripture. Complete of whatever is in view! That's why 5 were already fallen. Not five men. So we can't say a head is not a king or a horn is not a king, or a horn is not a head, because it's all symbolical and tied intimately together to paint a bigger picture of a powerful kingdom and its reign.

And common sense would tell us if the mountains were to be taken as literal hills, the woman sitting upon them must be taken literally also. Inconsistency is the hallmark of error. So it's nonsensical to think of these 7 mountains as literal little hills upon which Rome sits. If that were true, then one of these literal mountains hadn't even existed yet when Revelation was written, and another five hills had already fallen at the time of the writing. That's how ridiculous it is, no matter what preterists/premillennialists may have thought based upon their tunnel vision. It makes no sense unless we read scripture logically, circumspectly, and define scripture by comparing scripture with scripture. Not by the geographical hills and valleys of Italy, or the il feelings toward the Catholic Church of the day.

The little horn and the ten kings come out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

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Again, you have failed to search with the rest of the Scripture to find what the horns signify. God has already defined the horns as POWER (as I have shown you the Scripture many times that you refused to receive). The ten horns (ten kings), represent the fullness of power the beast will have, and the little horn represents the power that Satan will have for a short season as Revelation 20 shows. Not about a man out of ten European nations coming with satanic supernatural.

Now, if you insisted that a beast is a man, are you going to suggest that the frogs of Revelation 16 will physically come out of his mouth along with his "false prophet"...literally? LOL. No, you need to study "frogs" in Scripture. Start with Exodus and read carefully WHY God had many frogs coming out of the river and jump all over Egypt and ended up in ovens and kneading troughs. Do you even understand why God has specifically tell us where the frogs were found. It has spiritual signification!

The Turks (Ottoman empire), as well as, the British (empire) are not part of the prophecy.

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Nor the prophecy has anything to do with countries in the Middle East. It is spiritual discernment. The nations mentioned in Daniel are only a type of enemy against the New Testament congregation. Not about the physical countries in the Middle East.