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No one in Hebrews chapter eleven (the faith chapter) ever read the Bible. Were they saved?Hello you and welcome.
Do you believe a person can be saved never reading the bible?
Is there anyway for God to divinely intervene with this person who may have faith in the existence of God never reading the bible?
What are your thoughts on God being powerful enough to even interact with his creation outside the parameters of possibly never hearing, or reading the bible?
No one in Hebrews chapter eleven (the faith chapter) ever read the Bible. Were they saved?
What does your brain tell you? Is everyone in the faith chapter lost because you claim they didn't believe in Jesus?No one in Hebrews chapter eleven believed in Jesus Christ either. Were they saved if, in fact, there is no other name given among men by which we must be saved?
What does your brain tell you? Is everyone in the faith chapter lost because you claim they didn't believe in Jesus?
Saint Steven said: ↑
No one in Hebrews chapter eleven (the faith chapter) ever read the Bible. Were they saved?
In Matthew 25, Jesus is separating the sheep from the goats. He says "Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." He then lists a bunch of activities that they performed. Not one of which mentions belief or faith, by the way. It's all actions like feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick. Those people say back to him..."When?"Do you believe a person can be saved never reading the bible?
Is there anyway for God to divinely intervene with this person who may have faith in the existence of God never reading the bible?
What are your thoughts on God being powerful enough to even interact with his creation outside the parameters of possibly never hearing, or reading the bible?
It has to do with hearing the word, of course, as arguably most believers have been illiterate down through the centuries. But even then faith is near all of us to begin with. Having God’s presence and direct knowledge of Him is something we’re all made for, but have been artificially and unnaturally cut off from at the Fall, and by the continued pride that we all possess and participate in as a result. Man was made for communion with God and we exist in a disordered, unjust state until we’re reconnected with Him, a relationship constituted by faith, hope, and, most fully and importantly, love.Hello you and welcome.
Do you believe a person can be saved never reading the bible?
Is there anyway for God to divinely intervene with this person who may have faith in the existence of God never reading the bible?
What are your thoughts on God being powerful enough to even interact with his creation outside the parameters of possibly never hearing, or reading the bible?
It has to do with hearing the word, of course, as arguably most believers have been illiterate down through the centuries. But even then faith is near all of us to begin with. Having God’s presence and direct knowledge of Him is something we’re all made for, but have been artificially and unnaturally cut off from at the Fall, and by the continued pride that we all possess and participate in as a result. Man was made for communion with God and we exist in a disordered, unjust state until we’re reconnected with Him, a relationship constituted by faith, hope, and, most fully and importantly, love.
And this is the God Jesus came to reveal, to give us the full “knowledge of God” so we’ll have something truly worth believing in, hoping in, and loving. But God beckons us in our hearts already:
“For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.” Rom 1:19-20
Paul quotes Deuteronomy, Isaiah, and then Joel in Rom 10:
“But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”
“It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
When we see, hear, and believe in Jesus we’ve met the God that we already know in our hearts exists. And, yes, I believe some people express that faith in various ways, even if it’s not so fully and perfectly informed by having met Him directly. And we see that expression in the fruits of obedience to a higher law, where people live as those who conscience compels them to refrain from sin, or help their neighbor as the Good Samaritan modeled.
“(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.“ Rom 2:14-16
Believe it or not, there are some places in this world that have never encountered other human beings. I remember watching a video on it at Bible college and was amazed. The question was: These people never heard of the gospel because of where they live. Are they going to hell if they've never had a chance to know Christ? Then we debated about it.Hello you and welcome.
Do you believe a person can be saved never reading the bible?
Is there anyway for God to divinely intervene with this person who may have faith in the existence of God never reading the bible?
What are your thoughts on God being powerful enough to even interact with his creation outside the parameters of possibly never hearing, or reading the bible?
That seems like the "He's God so he can do whatever he wants." idea. But what does that say about his character? Is a cosmic tyrant that can do as he pleases? Like an angry volcano god?Believe it or not, there are some places in this world that have never encountered other human beings. I remember watching a video on it at Bible college and was amazed. The question was: These people never heard of the gospel because of where they live. Are they going to hell if they've never had a chance to know Christ? Then we debated about it.
This question reminded me of it and brings me to an answer: God is God. I don't want to put Him in a box. Because He doesn't live in a box, He doesn't belong in a box. He is God overall. In my heart, I believe that He will intervene in those people's lives that don't have Bibles (the ones that live in the different parts of the world).
He moves because He chooses to move in people's lives.
That's not what I mean. He is slow to anger. He is forgiving. He is grace. Jesus saved us from His wrath (Romans 5:9).That seems like the "He's God so he can do whatever he wants." idea. But what does that say about his character? Is a cosmic tyrant that can do as he pleases? Like an angry volcano god?
Thank you all so much for sharing your insight and information.
You're misunderstanding what I'm sayingGod can’t do whatever he desires; that is against his own nature and character. The ability to reach others that are not in society like us Americans are. It is said that God is know through nature. So someone out there who might not even know American language can call out to the all creator God, by simply coming to a conscious decision inside of their heart there is something greater than themselves that created them. That is my view. Thank you for sharing yours @shineyourlight
I understand what you're saying. I think at most we all carry a sort of distorted image of God within us, as the default position of fallen man, of a God who's primarily only distant and angry. And until we meet the true God through the person of Jesus Christ we don't really know Him, and even then we only begin to do so.That is quite a lovely explanation. One flaw in your argument is "When we see, hear, and believe in Jesus we’ve met the God that we already know in our hearts exists." Speaking from my own experience I assuredly did not meet the God the I already knew in my heart exists. I despised Christians. Christianity, and the God of Christianity. My experience was much like Paul on the road to Damascus. It would be foolish to assert that when Paul was converted he suddenly discovered the God who he knew in his heart existed.