Thinking about becoming a Seventh Day Adventist

mmksparbud · Jun 28, 2021

zoidar said:
I didn't say vegetarianism isn't an healthier option. I just said the Bible isn't a good argument for it. Do you find any NT scripture that supports vegetarianism? OT is useful, but the NT is our heart, if you know what I mean? Also how many books in the OT do we find that support vegetarianism?

It has already been stated that the bible only condones a "clean meat" diet. It's been stated twice, this will be a third time. And and I already pointed out---it was the original diet and will be again after the new earth. You are free to do as you please.

Enilorac · Jun 28, 2021

For me, it's not a big deal or a roadblock. I can go vegetarian in a minute...however, I can't give my dairy up. I live for cheese and yogurt!

mmksparbud · Jun 28, 2021

Enilorac said:
For me, it's not a big deal or a roadblock. I can go vegetarian in a minute...however, I can't give my dairy up. I live for cheese and yogurt!

Truly understand! I make my own.

zoidar · Jun 28, 2021

mmksparbud said:
It has already been stated that the bible only condones a "clean meat" diet. It's been stated twice, this will be a third time. And and I already pointed out---it was the original diet and will be again after the new earth. You are free to do as you please.

I don't understand what "clean meat" has to do with vegetarianism. It's vegetarianism we are talking about right?

mmksparbud · Jun 28, 2021

zoidar said:
I don't understand what "clean meat" has to do with vegetarianism. It's vegetarianism we are talking about right?

Actually, we're talking about becoming SDA. Which is vegetarian, Clean meats, or vegan. Any of which yo will find in far greater numbers outside of SDA culture.

Freth · Jun 28, 2021

Here's an excerpt of article 22 from the SDA 28 Fundamental Beliefs, under Christian Behavior:

...Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures.

"Unclean foods identified in the scriptures", of course, refers to unclean meat. While this statement doesn't promote vegetarianism per se, the "most healthful diet possible" that the church encourages is vegetarianism. Diet is a personal choice, based on your beliefs and convictions. Some people are vegetarians, some aren't.

Every SDA church I've ever been to has vegetarian potlucks, which are delicious by the way.

Enilorac · Jun 29, 2021

zoidar said:
I don't understand what "clean meat" has to do with vegetarianism. It's vegetarianism we are talking about right?

No, we are discussing that I am discerning whether or not to join the SDA church. Someone was kind enough to point out the dietary rules...and I'm fine with them. The only meat I really eat is chicken and giving that up is easy...I'm also Latina so I'm perfectly capable of living on rice and beans...black beans, red beans, garbanzo beans, as long as I have cheese, sour cream, and salsa, I can eat like a queen for very little $$.

mmksparbud · Jun 29, 2021

Freth said:
Here's an excerpt of article 22 from the SDA 28 Fundamental Beliefs, under Christian Behavior:

...Our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, we are to care for them intelligently. Along with adequate exercise and rest, we are to adopt the most healthful diet possible and abstain from the unclean foods identified in the Scriptures.

"Unclean foods identified in the scriptures", of course, refers to unclean meat. While this statement doesn't promote vegetarianism per se, the "most healthful diet possible" that the church encourages is vegetarianism. Diet is a personal choice, based on your beliefs and convictions. Some people are vegetarians, some aren't.

Every SDA church I've ever been to has vegetarian potlucks, which are delicious by the way.

Exactly. Good health for certain people will be different for some individuals. I, for example, can not go total vegetarian, however much I may want to and prefer to. I am borderline kidney failure ever since my colon cancer surgery about 3 1/2 years ago. That means I can not have too much protein, which otherwise would mean a vegetarian diet. However, to have sufficient protein (still need it) would entail a greater intake of beans ---which I can not eat enough of, for they would be too high in protein and other things that would put me into total kidney failure. I can have some. I also can not do too much broccoli and other cruciferous veggies or tofu and other soy products, for I am on thyroid and they block my thyroid medication ---my thyroid went caput at around 21 (by a dr. no less!)---Dairy is a good source of protein for me except that it isn't that great for your heart (esp. cheese and eggs). So basically, any way I go is curtains for me! That I have flourished at all (without blood work--hospice doesn't do bloodwork, I've been in hospice 2 1/2 years!)---is really only by the grace of God! He tells me what to buy and eat. The dr.'s basically don't care what I eat as anything I eat is going to be bad for me if, I do not have the right balance---I am also diabetic so can't have all the fruit I want! I am hoping to live until Aug. 14, 2023, after that I do not care.

zoidar · Jun 29, 2021

mmksparbud said:
Actually, we're talking about becoming SDA. Which is vegetarian, Clean meats, or vegan. Any of which yo will find in far greater numbers outside of SDA culture.

Enilorac said:
No, we are discussing that I am discerning whether or not to join the SDA church. Someone was kind enough to point out the dietary rules...and I'm fine with them. The only meat I really eat is chicken and giving that up is easy...I'm also Latina so I'm perfectly capable of living on rice and beans...black beans, red beans, garbanzo beans, as long as I have cheese, sour cream, and salsa, I can eat like a queen for very little $$.

I have been to sermons quite a few times at the SDA. I'm not that knowlegable of their theology, but overall I enjoyed being there. One of the founders of the SDA was Ellen G. White, who was some kind of prophetess. I don't know what part her visions and teachings have in the church, maybe someome else could share more about this?

Freth · Jun 29, 2021

zoidar said:
I have been to sermons quite a few times at the SDA. I'm not that knowlegable of their theology, but overall I enjoyed being there. One of the founders of the SDA was Ellen G. White, who was some kind of prophetess. I don't know what part her visions and teachings have in the church, maybe someome else could share more about this?

What Ellen White's work consists of.

[Ellen G. White] wrote more than 5,000 periodical articles and 40 books; but today, including compilations from her 50,000 pages of manuscript, more than 100 titles are available in English. She is the most translated woman writer in the entire history of literature, and the most translated American author of either gender. Her writings cover a broad range of subjects, including religion, education, social relationships, evangelism, prophecy, publishing, nutrition, and management.

What the SDA church says about Ellen White.

The SDA Fundamentals - Article 18

18. The Gift of Prophecy

The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy.

This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church.

They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.

(Supporting scripture for what a prophet is: Numbers 12:6; 2 Chronicles 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10, Revelation 22:8-9)

Ellen's own words concerning her writings.

NOTE: There are more resources on this subject from the church stance, but I thought her own words would be the best to present here. The Spirit of Prophecy (a prophet) must be in line with scripture. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." —Isaiah 8:20

Her words:

Ellen G. White's Understanding of How Her Writings Relate to Scripture

My opinion as a long-time SDA member.

Her writings are incredible. The number of subjects she wrote about, authoritatively and knowledgeably, is mind-boggling. Her writings on scripture and prophecy are extensive.

But what about the woman? When you start reading her work and you get a feel for her character, you can tell she was a righteous, Godly woman. What isn't apparent in her formal writings is that she went through great hardship and struggle in life. I recommend reading her biography to understand the woman behind the writings. Where she came from and what her life was like.

I do believe she was a prophet, based on what I've read from her writings and how they align with scripture.

What I think is just my opinion. It's up to the reader to decide what they think about Ellen. A person should read what she has to say and come away with their own conclusion.

All of her writings are available free online from her estate here (newer) and here (older, more straight-forward). Also via smart device app called EGW Writings 2 for both iPhone and Android. There's even an older research edition for the PC from 2007 ($15 donation), which I use regularly.

Freth · Jun 29, 2021

Enilorac said:
No, we are discussing that I am discerning whether or not to join the SDA church. Someone was kind enough to point out the dietary rules...and I'm fine with them. The only meat I really eat is chicken and giving that up is easy...I'm also Latina so I'm perfectly capable of living on rice and beans...black beans, red beans, garbanzo beans, as long as I have cheese, sour cream, and salsa, I can eat like a queen for very little $$.

I think the diet you have now is just fine. There's no rule that says you need to be vegetarian. It's a personal choice. My own convictions caused me to seek to be vegetarian, for my health and because that was God's original design. Keep in mind though, that we live in a sinful world and that God allowed us to eat the clean meats. It's just that meat can shorten your life, depending on various factors, which is why vegetarianism is promoted as a healthy lifestyle.

Freth · Jun 29, 2021

mmksparbud said:
Exactly. Good health for certain people will be different for some individuals. I, for example, can not go total vegetarian, however much I may want to and prefer to. I am borderline kidney failure ever since my colon cancer surgery about 3 1/2 years ago. That means I can not have too much protein, which otherwise would mean a vegetarian diet. However, to have sufficient protein (still need it) would entail a greater intake of beans ---which I can not eat enough of, for they would be too high in protein and other things that would put me into total kidney failure. I can have some. I also can not do too much broccoli and other cruciferous veggies or tofu and other soy products, for I am on thyroid and they block my thyroid medication ---my thyroid went caput at around 21 (by a dr. no less!)---Dairy is a good source of protein for me except that it isn't that great for your heart (esp. cheese and eggs). So basically, any way I go is curtains for me! That I have flourished at all (without blood work--hospice doesn't do bloodwork, I've been in hospice 2 1/2 years!)---is really only by the grace of God! He tells me what to buy and eat. The dr.'s basically don't care what I eat as anything I eat is going to be bad for me if, I do not have the right balance---I am also diabetic so can't have all the fruit I want! I am hoping to live until Aug. 14, 2023, after that I do not care.

I have diabetes too. Looking back on my eating habits, I can't see how what I ate caused diabetes. Yes, I did have a lot of sugar in my lifetime, but it didn't seem excessive to me. Evidently it was.

I can't imagine being in your situation. Like you said, there has to be a delicate balance. The best you can do is eat right and put your trust in the Lord to take care of the rest. None of us know when He will call us home. It could be tomorrow, it could be twenty years from now. For me, I'm looking forward to going home at some point.

visionary · Jun 29, 2021

If the Lord leads, folllow. Sometimes the Lord takes you through places, because the teacher has the right message for you, sometimes the Lord leads through other places because you need to understand things. As long as you are following God, listening to Him, and praying for the eyes to see, ears to hear, and heart to believe, you will be blessed. Crossing paths with this group or that group is all part of the process of bringing you closer to Him. Bottom line is to hang on to Him and folllow Him. Our life's passage never said that you are to settle. You are to spiritual grow through your spiritually journey learning to become more like Him. Being in one spot, leads to stagnation.

BobRyan · Jun 29, 2021

zoidar said:
I have been to sermons quite a few times at the SDA. I'm not that knowlegable of their theology, but overall I enjoyed being there. One of the founders of the SDA was Ellen G. White, who was some kind of prophetess. I don't know what part her visions and teachings have in the church, maybe someome else could share more about this?

The Adventist Church considers that God gave Ellen White the spiritual gift of prophecy (as in 1 Cor 14:1 and 1 Cor 12 example) and office of a prophet in the church. But just as you never see one of the prophets in 1 Cor 14 quoted by NT authors as a source/authority for doctrine - so also SDAs do not quote something God told Ellen White to promote/prove/establish doctrine. Rather all doctrine is tested "sola scriptura" (a point Ellen White also fully endorsed in her ministry).

However God gave her specific details about healthy living, where to start schools, hospitals etc. Best practices for education, for treatment of certain diseases, for diet, and also showed her a lot of details about the war in heaven before the creation of Earth, the fall of Lucifer, the fall of Adam and Eve, the events at the flood, the great tribulation to come including the 7 last plagues, millennium, New Earth etc.

But only the actual 28 Fundamental Beliefs found in the Bible are the "official" voted-on position of the denomination. What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? | Adventist.org.

As for health and diet practices - we allow for individual freedom and each person going at their own pace for issues outside of Lev 11. (Everyone can do as they wish with Lev 11 as well but we do not accept them into membership unless they accept our denomination's statement of beliefs)

BobRyan · Jun 29, 2021

Enilorac said:
For me, it's not a big deal or a roadblock. I can go vegetarian in a minute...however, I can't give my dairy up. I live for cheese and yogurt!

No need to be either vegan or vegetarian to become a Seventh-day Adventist.

Our fundamental beliefs only require acceptance of the Lev 11 rules about clean vs unclean meat for those choosing to become members. So beef, chicken, salmon , Tuna etc are all fine for anyone joining the church.

We have a lot of information about healthy living but each person chooses what they want to do and goes at their own pace.

Enilorac · Jun 29, 2021

@BobRyan nah, it's cool...right now my grocery budget is approaching zero, until I get paid for my freelance project...when I'm done. I know how to live vegetarian...I actually rather prefer it.

BobRyan · Jun 29, 2021

Enilorac said:
@BobRyan nah, it's cool...right now my grocery budget is approaching zero, until I get paid for my freelance project...when I'm done. I know how to live vegetarian...I actually rather prefer it.

ok ..

-- will add your grocery budget to my prayer list for the day

Freth · Jun 29, 2021

Enilorac said:
@BobRyan nah, it's cool...right now my grocery budget is approaching zero, until I get paid for my freelance project...when I'm done. I know how to live vegetarian...I actually rather prefer it.

I grew up on a very small grocery budget. It's a blessing to know how to live on very little. Lots of pots of chili and soup beans. Rice with milk and sugar for breakfast. I think rice and beans are the best low budget grocery items you can get. I've come full circle. I grew up poor, had a well-paying career and now live on a meager retirement pension which is low income and now I eat some of what I used to eat as a child; those simple meals. There's a peace and joy to be found in these simple things. I look back on my childhood and loved those foods that came out of poverty and now I'm eating them again.

mmksparbud · Jun 29, 2021

zoidar said:
I have been to sermons quite a few times at the SDA. I'm not that knowlegable of their theology, but overall I enjoyed being there. One of the founders of the SDA was Ellen G. White, who was some kind of prophetess. I don't know what part her visions and teachings have in the church, maybe someome else could share more about this?

Whatever you do, do not get your info about her from former members. They always have things wrong. Even longtime members I have found had things a little twisted. Her writings are 0n line and anyone can read them. It is the same with any denomination. If you want truth, go to their source. I don't go to former members for info, I go to their writings. If I want to know about Mormons, or Catholics or any of them, always best to go to their source. I go to formers just to get an idea of what to look for, but I usually check them out against their source. Too many times I figured they should know--but they didn't.

Ellen G. White Writings in Multiple Languages

H&TR · Jun 29, 2021

Kidney health and diet. Dr. Michael Greger
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