Black Americans: Most Religious Ethnic Group

setst777

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A genuine Gospel Faith overcomes worldly obstacles, living decent, moral lives in a sinful world.

Romans 6:19-23 (NIV)
Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit

Titus 2:11-12 (WEB)
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age

1 John 1:6-7 (WEB)
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Ephesians 4:20-24 (WEB)
20 But you didn’t learn Christ that way, 21 if indeed you heard him, and were taught in him, even as truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new man, who in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.

A dangerously naive assumption.

First off, I want to sincerely apologize to you for referring to your name "FireDragon" as destroyer, and 7+6 = 13 as a bad omen. I unjustifiably used that as part of my response to what I perceive as your promoting Black Americans as victims unable to live a new life of holiness by faith because of structural issues of society. Referencing your name in the way I did was uncalled for. We are here to discuss the issues. I can see why that upset you.

Now, to the topic:

So you are saying that:

"a genuine Gospel Faith does not overcome worldly obstacles, living decent, moral lives in a sinful world"?

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB) 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

1 John 3:9-12 (WEB) 9 Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin (live in any sin), because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever does not do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 unlike Cain, who was of the evil one, and killed his brother. Why did he kill him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

I am sorry you feel that way.

You avoided responding to the Scriptures that were included with, and supported, that statement. No naïve assumption was made.

John 8:36
36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
 
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setst777

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You also didn't answer my question.

When a person truly puts his faith in Lord Jesus, he does not have the option to use the excuse that he can still live in any sin because he is facing obstacles. Such an excuse shows a lack of faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (WEB)
13 No temptation has taken you except what is common to man. God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able, but will with the temptation also make the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Hebrews 10:24-31 (WEB)
24 Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good works, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as the custom of some is, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries.
28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will repay,” says the Lord. [Deuteronomy] 32:35 Again, “The Lord will judge HIS people.” [Deuteronomy 32:36; Psalm 135:14] 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1 John 2:3-6 (WEB)
3 This is how we know that we know him: if we keep his commandments. 4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him. 5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word. This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
 
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FireDragon76

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First off, I want to sincerely apologize to you for referring to your name "FireDragon" as destroyer, and 7+6 = 13 as a bad omen. I unjustifiably used that as part of my response to what I perceive as your promoting Black Americans as victims unable to live a new life of holiness by faith because of structural issues of society. Referencing your name in the way I did was uncalled for. We are here to discuss the issues. I can see why that upset you.

Now, to the topic:

So you are saying that:

"a genuine Gospel Faith does not overcome worldly obstacles, living decent, moral lives in a sinful world"?

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB) 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

1 John 3:9-12 (WEB) 9 Whoever is born of God doesn’t commit sin (live in any sin), because his seed remains in him, and he can’t sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever does not do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 unlike Cain, who was of the evil one, and killed his brother. Why did he kill him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

I am sorry you feel that way.

You avoided responding to the Scriptures that were included with, and supported, that statement. No naïve assumption was made.

John 8:36
36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Why should I respond to your scriptures? I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the Bible as a sacred text.
 
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setst777

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Why should I respond to your scriptures? I am not a Christian and I don't believe in the Bible as a sacred text.

I wonder why you are on a Christian message board arguing with me about faith in Jesus if you are not a Christian and have no idea what faith in Jesus is, or how it changes lives?
 
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FireDragon76

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I wonder why you are on a Christian message board arguing with me about faith in Jesus if you are not a Christian and have no idea what faith in Jesus is, or how it changes lives?

I was raised in a Christian home and I'm very familiar with evangelicalism.
 
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setst777

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I was raised in a Christian home and I'm very familiar with evangelicalism.

You indicated that the Christian understanding of a new life in Christ by faith, that I have shown by Scripture, is dangerous and naïve without any reasons for doing so. . .

When I responded to your later post, and used further Scripture, you stated that you are not a Christian and so do not have to answer the Scriptures given since you do not believe in them.

I wonder what your motive is for being on this board, since you not only attack the Christian position, but you refuse to discuss the Christian position or recognize and respond to the Scriptures used.

My question and concern to you is:

What is your motive for being on this site other than to disrupt Christian dialogue?
 
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Pommer

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You indicated that the Christian understanding of a new life in Christ by faith, that I have shown by Scripture, is dangerous and naïve without any reasons for doing so. . .

When I responded to your later post, and used further Scripture, you stated that you are not a Christian and so do not have to answer the Scriptures given since you do not believe in them.

I wonder what your motive is for being on this board, since you not only attack the Christian position, but you refuse to discuss the Christian position or recognize and respond to the Scriptures used.

My question and concern to you is:

What is your motive for being on this site other than to disrupt Christian dialogue?
As a fellow heathen, I take exception to your rather acerbic tone.
 
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FireDragon76

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You indicated that the Christian understanding of a new life in Christ by faith, that I have shown by Scripture, is dangerous and naïve without any reasons for doing so. . .

Your explanation of religious faith isn't really compatible with what I was raised with, and I am suggesting it could be wrong for you to misrepresent what all "real" Christians supposedly believe in.
 
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setst777

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Your explanation of religious faith isn't really compatible with what I was raised with, and I am suggesting it could be wrong for you to misrepresent what all "real" Christians supposedly believe in.

That is why I quoted the Scriptures. I think every Christian, even those who adhere to easy believism, would all agree that by faith we have a new life in Christ - not the old life we had before faith in Lord Jesus. All the Scriptures teach this, so this is nothing new.

Even so, the very fact that this common view is not compatible with what you understand about faith in Lord Jesus shows me the real possibility that the faith being promoted to various ethnicities is not true to the Gospel, and so does not produce a new life in Lord Jesus. And that was my original reason for replying to this thread.
 
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setst777

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As a fellow heathen, I take exception to your rather acerbic tone.

I am not wishy washy, but I was respectful. People will take offense over anything that disagrees with them, so I understand your sensitivity. . . That really is the reality of discussing issues with people that have differing views and beliefs, so we have to not take things too personally.

I wonder what a "fellow heathen" would be doing on a Christian board. I would be interested to learn your reasons.

Blessings
 
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Pommer

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I am not wishy washy, but I was respectful. People will take offense over anything that disagrees with them, so I understand your sensitivity. . . That really is the reality of discussing issues with people that have differing views and beliefs, so we have to not take things too personally.

I wonder what a "fellow heathen" would be doing on a Christian board. I would be interested to learn your reasons.

Blessings
Just committing chronocide, friend.
 
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setst777

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Just committing chronocide, friend.

Okay. IF you desire to communicate about the Gospel, and the salvation that God offers, or you desire evidence, feel free to contact me.

Blessings.
 
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Pommer

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Okay. IF you desire to communicate about the Gospel, and the salvation that God offers, or you desire evidence, feel free to contact me.

Blessings.
I’m a “dead-again” Christian.
Fare thee well.
 
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FireDragon76

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That is why I quoted the Scriptures. I think every Christian, even those who adhere to easy believism, would all agree that by faith we have a new life in Christ - not the old life we had before faith in Lord Jesus. All the Scriptures teach this, so this is nothing new.

"New life" does not imply moral perfectibility, nor does it necessarily guarantee worldly success or respectability.
 
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setst777

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"New life" does not imply moral perfectibility, nor does it necessarily guarantee worldly success or respectability.

True

No matter what your station is in life, whether married or single, male or female, occupation, how much money you earn, etc, if one has put his faith in Lord Jesus, he is now a disciple of Lord Jesus - a Christian. If you are not a disciple of Lord Jesus, then you are not a Christian, because "Christian" means "disciple."

What does it mean to be a Christian (disciple)?

That life is represented in Baptism, which is:
  • Dying to the old life ruled by self-serving lusts and passions at the expense of others, which includes allowing food or drink, popularity, power, money, material possession, etc to become our idol that we live for and serve. We die to this old way of life of living for the material world serving out passions and lusts.
  • We die to that old life, and we rise to a new life in Christ - a life in which we now follow Lord Jesus into a righteous life of love.
Righteousness means to treat others with care and love, helping others, doing no harm to anyone, not using or abusing others, but rather, serving others. Righteousness is to live decent and moral lives of honesty, integrity, being truthful and trustworthy.

Love is expressed in the following Passage:

1 Corinthians 13:3-8 (WEB)
3 If I give away all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but don’t have love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love is patient and is kind. Love doesn’t envy. Love doesn’t brag, is not proud, 5 doesn’t behave itself inappropriately, doesn’t seek its own way, is not provoked, takes no account of evil; 6 doesn’t rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with. Where there are various languages, they will cease. Where there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when that which is complete has come, then that which is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, even as I was also fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, and love remain—these three. The greatest of these is love.

Many Scriptures sum up this new life in Christ Jesus. One of those Passages is Colossians 3:1-17. Please read when you have time, and also: Romans 6:1-23; 1 Corinthians 10:1-12; Galatians 6:7-9; Ephesians 5:3-9; 2 Timothy 2:19; Hebrews 12:14-17; 1 Peter 1:13-19; Revelation 3:1-5. .

Another similar Passage is Galatians 5:13-25 as follows:

Galatians 5:13-25 (WEB)
13 For you, brothers, were called for freedom. Only do not use your freedom for gain to the flesh, but through love be servants to one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [Leviticus 19:18] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you don’t consume one another.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
 
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FireDragon76

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So are poor black people poor, disadvantaged, and situated in high crime neighborhoods because they lack faith? Is that what you're trying to say?

Not every sociological problem has to become a sales pitch for Jesus.
 
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Strathos

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Not every sociological problem has to become a sales pitch for Jesus.

I think it's pretty insulting to claim that a community of people who are on average very faithful Christians are suffering because of their lack of faith.
 
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FireDragon76

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I think it's pretty insulting to claim that a community of people who are on average very faithful Christians are suffering because of their lack of faith.

I just think its cruel and wrong.
 
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Pommer

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I think it's pretty insulting to claim that a community of people who are on average very faithful Christians are suffering because of their lack of faith.

It’ll make the headlines!
Christian Forums n00b Solves Black People’s Problems by giving them a pep talk about Jesus!
‘Why didn’t we think to ask God to help us? What have we been doing wrong all of these years?’, grateful Black Leaders.”

“Try to be better people” really isn’t the message that should be heard.
 
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