Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
The gap between the messiah's arrival in Jerusalem and the beginning of the 70th week in the time of the end.

There.is.no.gap.

The edict was given by Artaxerxes in 457 BC

The time Gabriel told Daniel was 490 years (7 x 70 years).....right?

Do the math with those details.

Here:

490 years aggregate - 457 beginning point = (keeping in mind we're moving from BC to AD and there is no year "zero") = 34 AD is end of 490 years.

Spiritual Jew · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
The vision that both Daniel and Gabriel referred to in v21-23 is that of the little horn time of the end vision and prophecy.

As I have been saying before, people gloss over v21-23 and go right to v24 and start making their case.

It is critical to know what vision and prophecy both Daniel and Gabriel were referring to in v21-23 in understanding the 70 weeks.

The death of the messiah does not have to be within the assigned 70 weeks, but it has to be before fulfillment of the vision and prophecy of the little horn person begins.

I have both the time of the gentiles and time of the end on my chart.

I think I've told you before that I have no interest in your charts. No matter how fancy you make them, they still falsely represent the timing of the fulfillments of Bible prophecy.

Also, you did not respond specifically to the points I made. You just tried to divert attention away from what I said by bringing up verse 21-23. I'm talking about what it says in verse 24 specifically. I'm talking about the fact that there is no reconciliation for iniquity without Christ's death and resurrection and therefore His death and resurrection must occur within 1 of the 70 weeks since it says 70 weeks are given to accomplish reconciliation for iniquity (and 5 other things, obviously).

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed 40 years after the messiah was cutoff.

That's not quite relevant to what I posted.

Andy Stanley explains how Jesus had predicted the Temple would be destroyed within 40 years of Him saying so. It's actually the most verifiable fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible. It's a shame that many modern churches (typically non-denominational churches)have distorted the story of God with futurism and escapism.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
I think I've told you before that I have no interest in your charts. No matter how fancy you make them, they still falsely represent the timing of the fulfillments of Bible prophecy.

Also, you did not respond specifically to the points I made. You just tried to divert attention away from what I said by bringing up verse 21-23. I'm talking about what it says in verse 24 specifically. I'm talking about the fact that there is no reconciliation for iniquity without Christ's death and resurrection and therefore His death and resurrection must occur within 1 of the 70 weeks since it says 70 weeks are given to accomplish reconciliation for iniquity (and 5 other things, obviously).

Daniel 9:24 has to be fulfilled in the end times, latter days, latter years. Read what it says in Ezekiel 39...when reconciliation for iniquity of the house of Israel takes place.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

mkgal1 said:
There.is.no.gap.

The edict was given by Artaxerxes in 457 BC

Here is what it actually says in Daniel 9.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Timtofly · Apr 27, 2021

mkgal1 said:
Arguing against the fulfillment of the prophecy is asserting that Jesus and all His messengers and prophets were either wrong or they lied.

Are you certain that's the position you're wanting to choose?

No they are not wrong. The 7th Trumpet is the completion. When in history past has the 7th Trumpet finished the 70 weeks? Sorry, but still future. Messiah obeyed God's 3.5 year plan that started by baptism and ended with a resurrection.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

mkgal1 said:
That's not quite relevant to what I posted.

Destruction of the temple and city are part of Daniel 9.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

________________________________________________________

Look on my chart. Do you see the 483 years annotated between the Command and the arrival of the messiah, in John 12:12-15?

The gap begins at the end of the day Jesus arrived in Jerusalem as the messiah fulfilling the 483 years, commemorated by the Church as Palms Sunday.

The messiah was cutoff after the 483 years. Which I show on my chart.

Spiritual Jew · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
Daniel 9:24 has to be fulfilled in the end times, latter days, latter years. Read what it says in Ezekiel 39...

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

You continue to avoid addressing my points while changing the topic.

Regardless of whether or not more needs to occur to fulfill Daniel 9:24, would you agree that Christ's death and resurrection are at least part of what was necessary to fulfill at least part of the prophecy described in that verse?

If so, then that means His death and resurrection need to fall somewhere within the 70 weeks given to accomplish the six things listed in that verse. That is my point. Please address it specifically instead of going on tangents.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Regardless of whether or not more needs to occur to fulfill Daniel 9:24, would you agree that Christ's death and resurrection are at least part of what was necessary to fulfill at least part of the prophecy described in that verse?

I have already said Jesus's death and resurrection on the third day is God's way for atonement of sin.

Spiritual Jew said:
If so, then that means His death and resurrection need to fall somewhere within the 70 weeks given to accomplish the six things listed in that verse. That is my point. Please address it specifically instead of going on tangents.

That's where you are making the mistake in rationale. The death of the messiah and his resurrection (which the messiah's resurrection is not mentioned in Daniel 9) does not have to be within the assigned 70 weeks. And cannot be within the assigned 70 weeks, because the messiah is cutoff after 69 weeks, but before the time of the end 70th week.

The 70th week is time of the end, which not recognizing it as such is the flawed part of your view. Because you are not recognizing that the vision and prophecy in v21-23 is that of the little horn person, time of the end prophecy.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

the vision and prophecy sealed up in the 70th week forthcoming.

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Timtofly said:
No they are not wrong.

I'm not asserting they are.

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
That's where you are making the mistake in rationale. The death of the messiah and his resurrection (which the messiah's resurrection is not mentioned in Daniel 9)

No......but the cleansing of iniquity is.

Daniel 9:24
....to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

The fact that the Cross and Resurrection wasn't expected is the backdrop or context to this conversation recorded by Luke:

Luke 24
The Road to Emmaus
(Mark 16:12–13)

13That same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven milesb from Jerusalem. 14They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15And as they talked and deliberated, Jesus Himself came up and walked along with them. 16But their eyes were kept from recognizing Him.17He asked them, “What are you discussing so intently as you walk along?”

They stood still, with sadness on their faces. 18One of them, named Cleopas, asked Him, “Are You the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in recent days?”19“What things?” He asked.

“The events involving Jesus of Nazareth,” they answered. “This man was a prophet, powerful in speech and action before God and all the people. 20Our chief priests and rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death, and they crucified Him. 21But we were hoping He was the One who would redeem Israel. And besides all this, it is the third day since these things took place.22Furthermore, some of our women astounded us. They were at the tomb early this morning, 23but they did not find His body. They came and told us they had seen a vision of angels, who said that Jesus was alive. 24Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had described. But Him they did not see.”25Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?” 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He explained to them what was written in all the Scriptures about Himself.

Spiritual Jew · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
That's where you are making the mistake in rationale. The death of the messiah and his resurrection (which the messiah's resurrection is not mentioned in Daniel 9) does not have to be within the assigned 70 weeks.

If it is required to fulfill Daniel 9:24, at least partially, then it does have to fall within the 70 weeks because it is things occurring during the 70 weeks that fulfill the prophecy, not any other time.

As for your parenthetical comment that the resurrection is not mentioned in Daniel 9, you'd said that to me before and I've already said that I know that, but His resurrection is just as crucial to the fulfillment of accomplishing reconciliation or atonement for sins as His death, so that's why I include it.

And cannot be within the assigned 70 weeks, because the messiah is cutoff after 69 weeks, but before the time of the end 70th week.

69 + 1 = 70. After the 69th week pushes it into the 70th week. Very simple. There is not even a hint given anywhere in Daniel 9:24-27 of there being a gap within the 70 weeks at any point. The prophecy says 70 weeks were given to fulfill the prophecy within those 70 weeks, not 3500 weeks or however many it's been up to this point in time.

The 70th week is time of the end, which not recognizing it as such is the flawed part of your view.

Where in Daniel 9:24-27 does it say this?

Because you are not recognizing that the vision and prophecy in v21-23 is that of the little horn person, time of the end prophecy.

I'm recognizing that your understanding of the fulfillment of that prophecy does not stand up to scrutiny.

I'm recognizing that you lack the discernment to understand that Jesus fulfilled all six things listed in Daniel 9:24 with His life, death and resurrection and that the covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is the new covenant that Christ established long ago when He was "cut off" and rose again.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Where in Daniel 9:24-27 does it say this?

It comes from v21-23, the vision and prophecy of the little horn that both Daniel and Gabriel referred to, which in Daniel 8 Gabriel said time of the end.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
69 + 1 = 70. After the 69th week pushes it into the 70th week. Very simple. There is not even a hint given anywhere in Daniel 9:24-27 of there being a gap within the 70 weeks at any point.

Has to be a gap or suspension of the 70 weeks until time of the end.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, the 483 years fulfilled in the first century.

The 70th week is time of the end. 2000 years later to our day.

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
I'm recognizing that your understanding of the fulfillment of that prophecy does not stand up to scrutiny.

It is not me who is not reading Ezekiel 39:21-29, the reconciliation of the House of Israel's iniquity.

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
It comes from v21-23, the vision and prophecy of the little horn that both Daniel and Gabriel referred to, which in Daniel 8 Gabriel said time of the end.

This is a generally accepted overview of the entire book of Daniel (in less than 9 minutes, even!).

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Where in Daniel 9:24-27 does it say this?

Douggg said:
It comes from v21-23, the vision and prophecy of the little horn that both Daniel and Gabriel referred to, which in Daniel 8 Gabriel said time of the end.

I'm not sure what words you're interpreting to support that idea?

Daniel 9:21-24 says:
21while I was still praying, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22He instructed me and spoke with me, saying: “O Daniel, I have come now to give you insight and understanding. 23At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:24Seventy weeks (e) are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.(f)

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
Has to be a gap or suspension of the 70 weeks until time of the end.

"Has to be" why?

If a person follows the orthodox Church interpretation (and secular history).....everything lines up remarkably.

mkgal1 · Apr 27, 2021

Douggg said:
Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, the 483 days fulfilled in the first century.

We're discussing the 490 *year* prophecy Gabriel revealed to Daniel.

I don't know where you're getting 483 *days* from?

Douggg · Apr 27, 2021

mkgal1 said:
"Has to be" why?

Because the 70th week is time of the end when the vision and prophecy about the little horn person is sealed up.

mkgal1 said:
If a person follows the orthodox Church interpretation (and secular history).....everything lines up remarkably.

orthodox church, is that where you have taken your avatar art from?

If the orthodox church's interpretation matches the chart you posted - it does not line up because the length of the messiah's ministry is not prophesied in Daniel 9.

Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Amillennialist

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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