Problems with Miracles?

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 7, 2021

cvanwey said:

Oh, I saw that. Yeah, this guy is a joke. He doesn't really represent Christianity accurately.

Landon Caeli · Feb 7, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
@Landon Caeli,

Here are the verses and a little more about prayer:

Philippians 4:4-7
Philippians 4:4 ¶ Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice.
Philippians 4:5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand;
Philippians 4:6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

So you should be praying with thankfulness.

James 1:5-8
James 1:5 ¶ If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
James 1:7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
James 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

So you should be praying with sureness that you will receive and not with skepticism (take note those of you who want to pray to God but are unsure if He will hear you as you ought to pray with confidence).

And some things about prayer and faith from Jesus:

Luke 11:1-4
Luke 11:1 ¶ Now Jesus1 was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, gas John taught his disciples.”
Luke 11:2 And he said to them, “When you pray, say:
'Father, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
Luke 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread,
Luke 11:4 and forgive us our sins,
for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And plead us not into temptation.'"

Jesus doesn't tell His disciples to pray "lofty" prayers, just the basics, such as praying your needs are met and God's will to be done and to pray with a humble heart asking for forgiveness.

Notice that none of this prayer is a declaration except that God's kingdom come to the earth. This has implications of what is considered God's kingdom coming to earth, but suffice to say, it's the same thing as it is in James.

Matthew 17:20 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Now the thing ALL of these passages assume is that you are "testing" the Spirit to see if what you are praying is from God, as it also says,

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’
Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with pa new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’
Revelation 2:29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
Revelation 3:6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
Revelation 3:13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’
Revelation 3:22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

And,

1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.

The biggest problem I see when people pray for a miracle, is that they don't even bother to stop and test if it is God's will to do a miracle at that point in time. They just pray for the miracle without testing the Spirit. Of course, knowing what to pray, if it is from God, is a matter of discernment, which is found in 1 Corinthians 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

The distinguishing between Spirits is a gift from God. Rather than thinking about having it and not having it, think rather in terms of how much you have it. From there, pray in confidence based on how much discernment you have that God is going to answer your prayer.

Finally, one more passage about prayer:

Hebrews 4:16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

So it is not about if we should pray with confidence, because praying with faith is key. But in anything that you find yourself not really knowing if God wants to answer your prayer or not, then to either not pray for it, which is probably the more accurate thing to do, or to pray something like, "Lord, I pray for X, and if it is your will that you would do it."

So always pray in a way that you are humble, but confident that God will answer your prayer.

I'm also going to tag @cvanwey here as he might learn something here about his problem with praying God would do something for him.

Thank you.

Eight Foot Manchild · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
And how do you know I could be wrong about the Holy Spirit living un me?

It's not that I "know" that you're wrong, it's that I'm not going to just arbitrarily extend to you a concession that you're right. I don't grant that something is actually true, just because someone is convinced that it's true.

Neither do you. You don't accept the metaphysical claims of other religions, or metaphysical claims in general which contradict Christianity, despite there being billions of people who are every bit as convinced as you are that they're the ones who are right.

So, no. There is nothing special about your particular set of beliefs. I believe you believe them. That is all that need be conceded.

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

Eight Foot Manchild said:
It's not that I "know" that you're wrong, it's that I'm not going to just arbitrarily extend to you a concession that you're right. I don't grant that something is actually true, just because someone is convinced that it's true.

Neither do you. You don't accept the metaphysical claims of other religions, or metaphysical claims in general which contradict Christianity, despite there being billions of people who are every bit as convinced as you are that they're the ones who are right.

So, no. There is nothing special about your particular set of beliefs. I believe you believe them. That is all that need be conceded.

Other religions are not based on the same kind of evidence that Christianity is based on. It all boils down to your belief or unbelief in the supernatural. If you find yourself believing supernatural claims, Christianity is your best bet because its based on a mountain of historical evidence to back up its claims. If you don't believe any supernatural claims, then the default would probably be agnosticism and not atheism because a claim of something is evidence for something you just might not know what it is evidence of. Christianity has a long chain of information being passed down from one disciple to another starting with the apostles. You will find what Apostle A's chain to disciple X is relatively the same information as what Apostle A actually believed. You don't get that with a lot of different religions and practices, but you do get it with Christianity. Islam might be another religion where things are passed down relatively accurately, but there are problems with Islam's logistics and what they actually purport they believe such as affirming the Bible when it is in conflict with the Quran.

Eight Foot Manchild · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
Other religions are not based on the same kind of evidence that Christianity is based on.

Again, I don't care. "I am convinced of this" isn't evidence. "Other people from history have been convinced of this" isn't evidence. All it means is that you believe it. Good for you.

Eight Foot Manchild · Feb 8, 2021

Tree of Life said:
I would not use the term “super natural” as I also find it to be incoherent. But I don’t think that’s a problem for miracles.

It doesn't really matter what you call it. You're still left without a means of determining the causal agency of an apparent miracle. Is it actually from a god (never mind Yahweh, specifically), or merely some natural phenomenon that you are unfamiliar with?

The problem compounds itself when you're talking about ancient miracle claims, such as those found in the Bible. I think you've saddled yourself with an impossible burden of proof there.

Clizby WampusCat · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
So what you are saying is that you have no idea what evidence would convince you but you are not convinced. Is that right? That sounds more like a personal problem to me than anything actually objective.

I wasn't convinced by evidence, I was convinced by experience. Since then, God has shown himself to be real to me. I have an understanding of God's sovereignty now and how it effects my decisions. Sure, sometimes I have to ask myself, "Why did I do that? What was the purpose of it?" But this is nothing new or anything that isn't in the Bible.

Just a reminder that this was my response to your post:

Clizby WampusCat said:
I would suggest learning about evidence and the nature of it. I think if you do my response will make sense.

Here is why I don't think you have studied evidence and what constitutes good evidence. Personal experience is evidence. It is not evidence that should convince others.

How has God shown himself to be real to you?

Can you tell me how God has shown himself to be real to you? You said He has.

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
Can you tell me how God has shown himself to be real to you? You said He has.

Your post didn't relate to what I was actually saying. The distinction I made between person experience and evidence is exactly what you alluded to, namely, that personal experience shouldn't convince anyone else and evidence as it is scientifically verifiable in terms of scholarship should be the kind of evidence that should convince other people. So if personal experience doesn't convince other people, why are you asking for my personal experience if it is not going to convince you anyways? TBH, I don't even want to tell you my experiences for two reasons. First, that it's not going to convince you anyways and secondly, because of the first reason, I don't want to tell you because you will be held accountable for what you know on judgement day. And if I tell you about a miracle I experienced then you are going to be held accountable for knowing those miracles and still not believing. So I am actually looking out for you that I don't tell you. Further, there's a saying from the Bible, "Don't throw your pearls before swine" which means don't tell people valuable things if they are not going to care about it anyways.

Clizby WampusCat · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
Your post didn't relate to what I was actually saying. The distinction I made between person experience and evidence is exactly what you alluded to, namely, that personal experience shouldn't convince anyone else and evidence as it is scientifically verifiable in terms of scholarship should be the kind of evidence that should convince other people.

I never said scientific verifiable evidence is required to believe something. I just said good evidence.

So if personal experience doesn't convince other people, why are you asking for my personal experience if it is not going to convince you anyways?

I am curious why you believe.

TBH, I don't even want to tell you my experiences for two reasons. First, that it's not going to convince you anyways and secondly, because of the first reason, I don't want to tell you because you will be held accountable for what you know on judgement day. And if I tell you about a miracle I experienced then you are going to be held accountable for knowing those miracles and still not believing.

How? Just because you tell me a miracle happened does not mean I will believe it. Your God would send me to hell because cannot believe a claim without good evidence? Also, I have been told of countless miracles that I don't believe are true miracles already. Is one more going to have any affect on my judgment?

So I am actually looking out for you that I don't tell you. Further, there's a saying from the Bible, "Don't throw your pearls before swine" which means don't tell people valuable things if they are not going to care about it anyways.

I care about it. I am not convinced that it will convince me. If you don't tell me and I go to hell because of that isn't it you that will have to answer for that? Maybe it will convince me, we don't get to choose our beliefs.

cvanwey · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
So you should be praying with thankfulness.

Did that for decades.

True Counterphobia said:
So you should be praying with sureness that you will receive and not with skepticism (take note those of you who want to pray to God but are unsure if He will hear you as you ought to pray with confidence).

Did that for decades.

True Counterphobia said:
Jesus doesn't tell His disciples to pray "lofty" prayers, just the basics, such as praying your needs are met and God's will to be done and to pray with a humble heart asking for forgiveness.

Ask yourself a simple question here...

Is asking for food one of the 'basics'? ---> World Child Hunger Facts - World Hunger Education - World Hunger News

I would imagine many of these folks either directly earnestly asked for God's hand. Or, many petitionary prayers were made on behalf of many of these now perished individuals.

True Counterphobia said:
The biggest problem I see when people pray for a miracle, is that they don't even bother to stop and test if it is God's will to do a miracle at that point in time.

If it is God's will, as to whether or not He will ever answer your prayer, then all such prayer is rendered worthless. This would mean He is already going to do what He is already going to do. God will not change His mind in your current plan, to instead respond to your alternative request.

True Counterphobia said:
praying with faith is key.

Did that for decades.

True Counterphobia said:
So always pray in a way that you are humble, but confident that God will answer your prayer.

Did that for decades.

True Counterphobia said:
I'm also going to tag @cvanwey here as he might learn something here about his problem with praying God would do something for him.

What did I learn here?

1. Seems as though, according to you, praying for the 'basics', like to stop hunger, is also ineffective.

2. Praying with a faithful heart seems to yield no better results, verses the rate of random chance.

3. You cannot change God's current plan. Hence, your prayers become worthless regardless.

cvanwey · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
Oh, I saw that. Yeah, this guy is a joke. He doesn't really represent Christianity accurately.

Many think you do not either. So now what?

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
I never said scientific verifiable evidence is required to believe something. I just said good evidence.

You said personal experience isn't evidence that should convince others unless I am misunderstanding things.

I am curious why you believe.

I believe for more than one reason. For one, I believe the evidence provided for Christianity. Secondly, God has shown Himself to be real to me on many occasions. I would be lying if I said I never have doubts, but God always ends up showing me He is real.

How? Just because you tell me a miracle happened does not mean I will believe it.

That's exactly what I am afraid of.

Your God would send me to hell because cannot believe a claim without good evidence? Also, I have been told of countless miracles that I don't believe are true miracles already. Is one more going to have any affect on my judgment?

IMO, there's no reason to add fuel to the flame of this.

I care about it. I am not convinced that it will convince me. If you don't tell me and I go to hell because of that isn't it you that will have to answer for that? Maybe it will convince me, we don't get to choose our beliefs.

You are asking because you are curious about my experience. That's different then wanting to know because it might convince you. If I'm wrong about this, then I might reconsider, but as it is, if you are just asking to try and figure out what ACTUALLY happened, then I would rather not tell you because you won't be able to figure it out because I sure haven't been able to figure it out and I have first hand experience of the occasion in mind.

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

cvanwey said:
Did that for decades.
Did that for decades.
Did that for decades.
Did that for decades.

Not sure I understand. How can you pray with thanksgiving, faith, and humbly while at the same time feeling like you were talking to yourself when you were praying? There seems to be a difference in how you and I view things like thanksgiving, faith, and humility because those things seem to be at odds with praying as if you are talking to yourself. For example, if you are praying with faith, to me, this means praying with conviction that God is real. This seems to contradict praying as if God isn't real or that you feel you are talking to yourself when you are praying. It seems like you were praying all the while not actually believing that God was hearing your prayers. To me this is a pretty clear cut case of not praying with faith. It's possible I just don't understand, but as it lays, this doesn't seem to be consistent.

Ask yourself a simple question here...

Is asking for food one of the

'basics'? ---> World Child Hunger Facts - World Hunger Education - World Hunger News

I would imagine many of these folks either directly earnestly asked for God's hand. Or, many petitionary prayers were made on behalf of many of these now perished individuals.

If it is God's will, as to whether or not He will ever answer your prayer, then all such prayer is rendered worthless. This would mean He is already going to do what He is already going to do. God will not change His mind in your current plan, to instead respond to your alternative request.

What did I learn here?

1. Seems as though, according to you, praying for the 'basics', like to stop hunger, is also ineffective.

2. Praying with a faithful heart seems to yield no better results, verses the rate of random chance.

3. You cannot change God's current plan. Hence, your prayers become worthless regardless.

I suppose you think it is "wrong" that some children die of hunger, correct? Well, what is your basis for thinking this? Also, if this is actually something "wrong" that happens, what are you personally doing about it? Unless of course all you mean to do is criticize the belief Christians have about God? This would be the problem of evil. Did you know a lot of the charities that end up feeding starving Children are actually Christian organizations? And many of these Christian organizations actually bring the Gospel to these very impoverished areas. So not only do they feed them, but they provide the means for eternal life as well. Also, a lot of the tribes who struggle with things like clean water and food to eat likely have not been exposed to the Gospel or these Christian organizations. You might say that this means that God is evil because on top of children starving to death, they also go to hell when they die. Well, I believe God is just and Good. As a result, I don't think God does not make a way for anyone who would believe the Gospel to not hear it at some point in their life and get saved as a result. This is a doctrine known as Molinism. It's basically the idea that God knows what anyone would do in any given situation. As such, people who never hear the Gospel are people who would not believe the Gospel even if they heard it. And to add, God does not judge people unfairly. So in the case that someone never hears the Gospel, those people are not judged as severely as people who have heard the Gospel, but reject it. We are judged according to what we DO know, not on what we do not. Personally, I am not convinced that there is only heaven or hell, but that there might be varying degrees of rewards and punishments after the final judgement. So in my view, I'm not convinced there not a "middle" place in the afterlife.

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

cvanwey said:
Many think you do not either. So now what?

I think it is pretty clear that I hold to the Nicene Creed, which is more than Dan can say. So in a sense, I might not hold the exact same doctrines as other Christians, but, at least according to Christiansforums.com, I seem to represent Christianity better than Dan does.

cvanwey · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
I think it is pretty clear that I hold to the Nicene Creed, which is more than Dan can say. So in a sense, I might not hold the exact same doctrines as other Christians, but, at least according to Christiansforums.com, I seem to represent Christianity better than Dan does.

Here's a suggestion... Take it for what it's worth... Rather than insulting others, try and figure out, to the best of your own abilities, what is actually true. Or at least, figuring out what claims placed before you are likely false.

cvanwey · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
Not sure I understand. How can you pray with thanksgiving, faith, and humbly while at the same time feeling like you were talking to yourself when you were praying? There seems to be a difference in how you and I view things like thanksgiving, faith, and humility because those things seem to be at odds with praying as if you are talking to yourself. For example, if you are praying with faith, to me, this means praying with conviction that God is real. This seems to contradict praying as if God isn't real or that you feel you are talking to yourself when you are praying. It seems like you were praying all the while not actually believing that God was hearing your prayers. To me this is a pretty clear cut case of not praying with faith. It's possible I just don't understand, but as it lays, this doesn't seem to be consistent.

Let me offer clarification... I was a follower for decades. My doubt/skepticism started a few years ago.

True Counterphobia said:
I suppose you think it is "wrong" that some children die of hunger, correct?

There exists no true basis for 'right/wrong'. It is all subjective. But I'm willing to bet you think it is 'wrong' for children to starve, while still asking for help from God

But regardless, it really does not matter what you are I think here. It only matters what God thinks, if He indeed exists. Moving forward (below)...

True Counterphobia said:
Did you know a lot of the charities that end up feeding starving Children are actually Christian organizations?

You are missing my point. You stated that God answers the call to basic prayers. Does food count as a basic? I would assume it does. If we agree here, then your assertion is false, as thousands die daily; many of whom are merely asking/praying for basics.

True Counterphobia said:
And many of these Christian organizations actually bring the Gospel to these very impoverished areas. So not only do they feed them, but they provide the means for eternal life as well. Also, a lot of the tribes who struggle with things like clean water and food to eat likely have not been exposed to the Gospel or these Christian organizations.

You are missing my point. You stated that God answers the call to basic prayers. Does clean water count as a basic? I would assume it does. If we agree here, then your assertion is false, as thousands die daily; many of whom are merely asking/praying for basics.

True Counterphobia said:
You might say that this means that God is evil because on top of children starving to death, they also go to hell when they die.

Let me put this line of argument to bed. It only matters what God thinks. You and I agreeing, that God allowing thousands a day to starve to death is 'wrong', is of no concern in this specific pointed discussion. Moving forward...

True Counterphobia said:
Well, I believe God is just and Good.

Then you must somehow reconcile that God does not always answer the call to basic prayer requests.

True Counterphobia said:
We are judged according to what we DO know, not on what we do not.

Most can be covered under His grace instead. But if you do not believe, love, repent, and worship Him, then these appear to be the only "DO's" He will not forgive.

True Counterphobia said:
Personally, I am not convinced that there is only heaven or hell, but that there might be varying degrees of rewards and punishments after the final judgement. So in my view, I'm not convinced there not a "middle" place in the afterlife.

Then maybe you are a Catholic or a Mormon

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

cvanwey said:
Here's a suggestion... Take it for what it's worth... Rather than insulting others, try and figure out, to the best of your own abilities, what is actually true. Or at least, figuring out what claims placed before you are likely false.

I am not sure what you are inferring by saying I need to figure out what is ACTUALLY true. I do actually try to determine what is True. I put a lot of weight on personal experience and less weight on what the experts say. Personal experience is just as valid a metric to determine what is true as far as I am concerned. A lot of people put faith in what the experts say, even sometimes to the detriment of their own experience. But personally, everything we come across is personal experience, whether that is an article written by a philosopher or not. And I don't mean to say I ignore the experts, but that I see what experts say as a part of my experience rather than assuming they are right because they are really smart and I am not. The way I see it is that if you can't trust your own experience, then you probably should not be trusting anyone else's either.

Larniavc · Feb 8, 2021

Tree of Life said:
We are entering the section of our apologetics course where we are talking about miracles - God acting specially in the world. Are miracles inherently implausible? Is there some problem with the idea of miracles? What's the problem with miracles?

It’s basically magic. Which is not real.

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 8, 2021

cvanwey said:
Let me offer clarification... I was a follower for decades. My doubt/skepticism started a few years ago.

Okay, I think I understand that you are having problems with squaring exactly what salvation is based on this and the questions you were asking me about salvation. I hope my answer elsewhere was helpful. BTW, it is not a sin to have doubts about God. I personally think telling someone who has doubts that they just need to have more faith is a horrible answer to give someone. There are different kinds of doubts that someone can have. Sometimes we have emotional doubts and sometimes we have intellectual doubts. Emotional doubts are like doubts based on the problem of evil and questioning certain experiences and circumstances. Intellectual doubts are things like not having a logical answer to theological problem that you have come across. I have doubts as well. But for me personally, God always ends up confirming to me that He is real and worthy to be worshiped.

There exists no true basis for 'right/wrong'. It is all subjective. But I'm willing to bet you think it is 'wrong' for children to starve, while still asking for help from God But regardless, it really does not matter what you are I think here. It only matters what God thinks, if He indeed exists. Moving forward (below)...

You are missing my point. You stated that God answers the call to basic prayers. Does food count as a basic? I would assume it does. If we agree here, then your assertion is false, as thousands die daily; many of whom are merely asking/praying for basics.

You are missing my point. You stated that God answers the call to basic prayers. Does clean water count as a basic? I would assume it does. If we agree here, then your assertion is false, as thousands die daily; many of whom are merely asking/praying for basics.

Let me put this line of argument to bed. It only matters what God thinks. You and I agreeing, that God allowing thousands a day to starve to death is 'wrong', is of no concern in this specific pointed discussion. Moving forward...

Then you must somehow reconcile that God does not always answer the call to basic prayer requests.

Most can be covered under His grace instead. But if you do not believe, love, repent, and worship Him, then these appear to be the only "DO's" He will not forgive.

Then maybe you are a Catholic or a Mormon

I didn't say most tribes who struggle with having clean water and food to eat have not been exposed to the Gospel for no reason, you know. That was a very pivotal part of my answer that you seemed to ignore entirely.

But I stand by the statement that God provides the basics of life for those who believe in Him unless God does this as a test of faith in some way. Actually, Jesus promised that being a Christian would be difficult and full of hard times. But the reason for it is so that we are sanctified through suffering, just as Christ was made perfect through suffering.

cvanwey · Feb 8, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
Okay, I think I understand that you are having problems with squaring exactly what salvation is based on this and the questions you were asking me about salvation. I hope my answer elsewhere was helpful. BTW, it is not a sin to have doubts about God. I personally think telling someone who has doubts that they just need to have more faith is a horrible answer to give someone. There are different kinds of doubts that someone can have. Sometimes we have emotional doubts and sometimes we have intellectual doubts. Emotional doubts are like doubts based on the problem of evil and questioning certain experiences and circumstances. Intellectual doubts are things like not having a logical answer to theological problem that you have come across.

The nail in the proverbial coffin, for me, was when I finally decided to read the Bible a few years ago. Two many direct contradictions within itself, as well as with later human discovery. Along with the fact that there looks to be virtually no external source corroboration to such said miracles. Aligned with also learning about how legends arise. ect ect ect... But now we are venturing off into a completely new topic

True Counterphobia said:
I have doubts as well.

About what exactly? That He even exists, or that He cares about you, or other?

True Counterphobia said:
But for me personally, God always ends up confirming to me that He is real and worthy to be worshiped.

You need constant re-affirmation that He is indeed real? Why is that?

True Counterphobia said:
I didn't say most tribes who struggle with having clean water and food to eat have not been exposed to the Gospel for no reason, you know. That was a very pivotal part of my answer that you seemed to ignore entirely.

I did not either. Your point brings up yet another topic I would rather avoid for now. (i.e.) If you have never received the 'good news' about Christ, do you receive a "free pass"?

Speaking of 'ignore', it seems you ignored much of my response. I will consolidate/restate:

- Regardless of objectivity/subjectivity, we likely agree that helpless and starving children is a very sad and real occurrence, and God can certainly do something about it. Especially when countless intercessory/petitionary prayers are done so in earnest, in His direct name.

- God does not answer many 'basic' prayer requests. - Contrary to your assertion(s).

- The only unforgivable sin is unbelief, love, repent, and worship. The rest is covered by grace/pardon/exception.

- Believing in a ranking system suggests you may be a Catholic/Mormon/other? Are you? If not, can you please clarify?

True Counterphobia said:
But I stand by the statement that God provides the basics of life for those who believe in Him unless God does this as a test of faith in some way. Actually, Jesus promised that being a Christian would be difficult and full of hard times. But the reason for it is so that we are sanctified through suffering, just as Christ was made perfect through suffering.

This would mean that all whom prayed, or were prayed for, and did not receive, were not faithful enough to receive a response.

Furthermore, I would trust you believe in intercessory prayer?

If so, can you pray for others to receive the basics - (like food, clean water, and shelter)? If so, why have you not? The reason I ask why you have not, is that we have people everywhere starving.

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