Did Jesus drink the sour wine and gall?

friend of said:

But to believe that Christ did not take away my sins on the cross thru His sacrifice is another gospel.

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On this point, we agree entirely. Where we disagree is how and why he took away your sins, and also, His sacrifice while centered on the precious and life-giving cross, extended through His entire Incarnation, which for almighty God to put on mortal human nature in order to restore and glorify it was an extreme act of self-humiliation, done purely for our sakes, to help provide for our salvation.

friend of said:

That's actually embarrassingly petty of you.

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No pettiness is intended. I simply feel like as a Trinitarian Christian we should capitalize the word when referring to the Holy Trinity, and this also helps identify us as fellow Nicene Christians, and I believe this is where @ewq1938 was coming from as well.

friend of said:

Duly noted. I may find time.

Could you just tell me exactly what we differ on then?

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Specifically, that God the Father avenged His wrath on His only begotten son instead of us, that the reason why Christ needed to sacrifice Himself as a ransom for many was to placate the anger of the Father, and that the Father, or any other person of the Godhead, is anything other than pure, infinite and unbounded love, infinitely merciful and with an infinite capacity for forgiveness.

friend of said:

Okay. Can you explain Romans 5:9?

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Yes, the same way I have explained all references to God’s wrath. God poured our His blood to form a New Covenant by which our sins are obliterated, and by partaking of His precious Blood in the Eucharist, and His Body, we join ourselves to the Body of Christ and prepare ourselves to receive God’s infinite love, destroying in the process any remaining hardness of our hearts and allowing ourselves to be remade in His image through the salvific acts of the Holy Spirit.

Mark Quayle said:

Are you of the opinion that his degree of physical suffering had anything to do with bearing the brunt of God's wrath? There are many who suffered worse.

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No, but he did have to suffer, which he couldn't do if he was unconscious.

ewq1938 said:

It was a Roman sour wine called Posca and it had some Myrrh in it. I doubt anyone has drank that in hundreds of years.

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The Greeks make a wine called retsina with pine resin in it which dates back to the first century. I have a bottle of it in my fridge. It has a very distinct flavor that a lot of people don't like. But what can I say, I'm an oddball.

friend of said:

Did Jesus drink the sour wine and gall when he was hanging on the cross? What are the ramifications if he did? Would that mean he wouldn't have taken the full brunt of God's wrath for sin?

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How would that keep Him from entering the tabernacle in heaven by HIS BLOOD?

Randy777 said:

How would that keep Him from entering the tabernacle in heaven by HIS BLOOD?

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Im sorry, what now? Our savior is God incarnate, the uncreated Word of God , begotten of the Father before all ages, coequal and of one essence with the Father and the Holy Spirit, and thus, omnipotent, (John 1:1-18) and sits at the right hand of the Father; I have no idea what you mean by “tabernacle in Heaven,” or what would stop the Lord from entering such a place regardless of the circumstances.

The Liturgist said:

Im sorry, what now? Our savior is God incarnate, the uncreated Word of God , begotten of the Father before all ages, coequal and of one essence with the Father and the Holy Spirit, and thus, omnipotent, (John 1:1-18) and sits at the right hand of the Father; I have no idea what you mean by “tabernacle in Heaven,” or what would stop the Lord from entering such a place regardless of the circumstances.

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You asked if He did take a drink=?Would that mean he wouldn't have taken the full brunt of God's wrath for sin?
I asked how would that keep Him from entering the tabernacle in heaven by His blood?
That's what He did as a High Priest He entered the temple in heaven by His blood for atonement of those who would believe in Him.

friend of said:

Did Jesus drink the sour wine and gall when he was hanging on the cross? What are the ramifications if he did? Would that mean he wouldn't have taken the full brunt of God's wrath for sin?

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Yes, He did.

To someone dying of thirst, the mixture of vinegar and gall would seem like relief, but it's not, it's just part of the torture. Drinking vinegar not only increases thirst, but also causes the teeth to become sensitive, as the vinegar eats away at them. --Giving a thirsty man vinegar is quite cruel, but that's the purpose of a crucifixion. Also, when before they hung Him up, they did offer Him wine mixed with myrrh, but that was not for His benefit, but so to increase His shame, by loosening Him up for the agony and pain--this He refused, and took it all sober, maintaining His dignity, tho naked and bruised.

Remember, this is all foretold:

"Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour: mine adversaries are all before thee. Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink." --Psalms 69:19-21

Everyone, save those who believed on Him, were mocking Him:

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, and saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS." --Luke 23:34-38

Randy777 said:

That's what He did as a High Priest He entered the temple in heaven by His blood for atonement of those who would believe in Him.

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I don’t see any scriptural or Patristic basis for belief in a literal temple in Heaven. Indeed, in the World to Come outlined in Revelations, it is commonly interpreted that there will be mo specific temple due to the ubiquity of the presence of God.

The Liturgist said:

I don’t see any scriptural or Patristic basis for belief in a literal temple in Heaven. Indeed, in the World to Come outlined in Revelations, it is commonly interpreted that there will be mo specific temple due to the ubiquity of the presence of God.

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Maybe you should read Hebrews 8 & 9. And REV 15:8