Come out of the Dark

Eilat · Jan 4, 2021

fhansen said:
How could it possibly be disingenuous?? The only reason for confession would be to reconcile after committing sin

The danger is to keep misunderstanding the Grace of God.
Thats the danger.., fhansen.
See, you wont go to hell if you never understand the Blood Atonement correctly, as long as you are born again, but the danger is, you'll live a false christianity that consumes your discipleship, and in fact, a confused believer can be harmful to other believers.

Notice how you said that confessing reconciles you to God.
And in fact, it does no such thing.
Only the blood of Jesus reconciles you to God.
Confession has NOTHING to do with that spiritual reality.

BobRyan · Jan 4, 2021

Eilat said:
Here is how Spiritual Darkness sounds when it teaches or believes wrong.

1.) "you can lose your salvation".

BobRyan said:
John 1:11 "He came to HIS OWN and His OWN received Him not"

Matt 18: "Forgiveness revoked" --
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

So then - "was Jesus wrong?

BobRyan said:
Gal 5: 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Was Paul wrong??

BobRyan said:
Rom 11: 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Matt 23: 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

John 15 :1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3... 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

If the bible is wrong in these cases - then who should we believe?

Eilat · Jan 4, 2021

BobRyan said:
So then - "was Jesus wrong?

Was Paul wrong??
If the bible is wrong in these cases - then who should we believe?

Would it be possible for you to state your actual confused point, so that i might be able to understand what your point is??
Also, don't use symbolic verses, that you dont understand.

Are you asking if we are to keep the law? Or keep the commandments?
What are you actually trying to ask me?

BobRyan · Jan 4, 2021

BobRyan said:
John 1:11 "He came to HIS OWN and His OWN received Him not"

Matt 18: "Forgiveness revoked" --
32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Gal 5: 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Matt 23: 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

John 15 :1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3... 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Rom 11: 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

See the details on those texts. They establish both "Free will" and also a rejection of OSAS

Eilat said:
Would it be possible for you to state your actual confused point,

I think the texts are so clear - they leave not confused point.

How could they be any more obvious??

They perfectly fit the Bible's salvation process ---

"I STAND at the door and knock if ANYONE hears My voice AND OPENS the door I will come in" Rev 3

Rom 10
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Is 5:4 "What MORE could I have done than that which I have already done? Why then the bad result??"

Eilat · Jan 5, 2021

BobRyan said:
See the details on those texts. They establish both "Free will" and also a rejection of OSAS

People that reject "eternal security", don't understand it.
Its really that simple.

Look at this reality....""" Once born again, always born again"...
So, to reject eternal security is to believe that you can stop being born again.
And to believe this, is not just theological ignorance parading about as utter self righteousness, but its really just dumb.

BobRyan · Jan 5, 2021

Eilat said:
People that reject "eternal security", don't understand it.

Actually they do understand and they understand what the Bible says to the contrary.
Its really that simple.

Eilat said:
Look at this reality....""" Once born again, always born again"...
So, to reject eternal security is to believe that you can stop being born again.
And to believe this, is not just theological ignorance parading about as utter self righteousness, but its really just dumb.

Another great example of "not a bible text -- just a slogan" mixed with name-calling.

You have not addressed a single Bible text in my post -- so devastating to the suggestions you make.

We don't base doctrine on slogans.

Adam and Eve did not need to " uncreate themselves" to be lost. Word games are not all that useful.

Bro.T · Jan 6, 2021

Don’t allow yourself to be deceived into believing that once you believe in the Lord that your work is finished, it has just started. (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. People you must have patience when dealing with the word of God. And you must do the will of God, which is the keeping of his law, if you expect to receive the promise, which is eternal life in the kingdom of God, which will be established on this earth. NO ONE IS GOING TO HEAVEN. And it’s strange that most people who consider themselves “once saved always saved” are the same ones that tell you that God’s commandments were nailed to the cross. (v.37) FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY.

(v.38) NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. What does Paul mean by if any man draw back? You mean that once you are quote “saved” that you can draw back. According to the apostle Paul you can. Just as you choose by your own free will to start serving the lord, you can by that same free will stop serving the lord or as Paul put it draw back. (v.39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. That’s what you must do, you must have faith (believe) unto the saving of the soul. And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution.

Mr. M · Jan 8, 2021

Eilat said:
Look at this reality....""" Once born again, always born again"...
So, to reject eternal security is to believe that you can stop being born again.
And to believe this, is not just theological ignorance parading about as utter self righteousness, but its really just dumb.

1 John 5:
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask,
and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death.
I do not say that he should pray about that.
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Is sin leading to death the opposite of being born again?
Are the wages of sin still death?

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God
keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Does sin that leads to death=sinning willfully?
Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer
remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again,
“The Lord will judge His people.”
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Has there ever been a sacrifice for sinning willfully?

Leviticus 4:2 Speak to the children of Israel, saying: If a person sins unintentionally against
any of the commandments of the Lord which ought not to be done, and does any of them...
13 Now if the whole congregation of Israel sins unintentionally, and the thing is hidden from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done something against any of the commandments of the Lord in anything which should not be done, and are guilty;
14 when the sin which they have committed becomes known, then the assembly shall offer....
22 When a ruler has sinned, and done unintentionally against any of the commandments
of the Lord his God in anything which should not be done, and is guilty,
23 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, he shall bring as his offering....
27 If anyone of the common people sins unintentionally by doing something against any
of the commandments of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and is guilty,
28 or if his sin which he has committed comes to his knowledge, then he shall bring as his offering...

CaspianSails · Jan 11, 2021

Arc F1 said:
Are you trying to say that all you have to do is have faith? That I can just believe and be saved?

"James teaches that its not just by faith, but you have to work your way into heaven"

CaspianSails · Jan 11, 2021

What must I do to be born again? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. No mention of works. For by grace are you saved by faith and this is not of yourself it is the gift of God lest any man should boast.

Arc F1 · Jan 12, 2021

CaspianSails said:
What must I do to be born again? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. No mention of works. For by grace are you saved by faith and this is not of yourself it is the gift of God lest any man should boast.

I believe Faith that does not lead to works is dead.

James 2:24 (“You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”)

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works?”

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven

Albion · Jan 12, 2021

Arc F1 said:
I believe Faith that does not lead to works is dead.

And so it is (dead).. But that doesn't mean that the works are the reason--even in tandem with a lively faith--for the person's salvation.

Arc F1 · Jan 12, 2021

Albion said:
And so it does. But that doesn't mean that the works are the reason, even in tandem with the faith, for the person's salvation.

Faith will produce good works.

Bro.T · Jan 12, 2021

CaspianSails said:
What must I do to be born again? Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. No mention of works. For by grace are you saved by faith and this is not of yourself it is the gift of God lest any man should boast.

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8) Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 1:36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past.

We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. Which hardly know one talks about. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

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