GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

LoveGodsWord · Dec 11, 2020

JLB777 said:
Sorry but you have plainly stated we are not under the old covenant.

So you don’t get to get flip flopping back and forth, going around in circles.

Let me know when you have a scripture from Jesus Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant that commands the Church how He wants us to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant?

I’ll be waiting...

I guess we will have to agree to disagree dear friend. It is hard to see what one does not want to see when scripture has been provided that disagrees with ones tradition. According to the scriptures all through time many close their eyes to seeing and their ears to hearing God's Word according to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul *Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15; Matthew 15:3-9 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. Of course we are all free to believe and do as we wish. We all answer only to God come judgement day *John 12:47-48 that is why we are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling in Philippians 2:12. It is written that many are called but few are chosen because they refuse to see and hear the Word of God *Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:13-15. No one is accountable for sin according to the scripture until we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and choose to reject it *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. At that time if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. For me, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-8. I only wish you well dear friend and my prayer is that you might receive Gods' Word and be blessed. May God bless you as you receive his Word. Ignoring them does not make them disappear.

namohcam · Dec 11, 2020

Matthew 19
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Studyman · Dec 11, 2020

Bob S said:
Great start there Studyman. I guess it must be the best way to start a post by putting down the person you are wanting to teach something even if it is not the real truth.

While your practice of ignoring and refusing to acknowledge or discuss the answers people give to your question is frustrating, and a fruit not desired in my view, it pales in comparison to the implication of your statement "To Whom was that addressed, Certainly not new covenant Christians". You could not be more wrong. At least if the Scriptures are our guide.

Please don't strain yourself on my part brother. It must have taken all of you and must be a great sacrifice to write this lesson for my edifice. I do hope it didn't cause you a tremendous amount of anguish.

Yes, it is a joke to you, a game of some sort. And I have no doubt you won't even read this post, and it is certainly doubtful you will engage in any serious or honest examination of scriptures. But there are others reading along, and someone has to stand up and expose the falsehood of your statement "To Whom was that addressed, Certainly not new covenant Christians". I volunteer.

Why did you stop with verse 10?

I was responding to your question "To Whom was that addressed?"

The implication of your post is that the instruction regarding the Feasts of the Christ of the Bible, or the Law given by God through Moses, were not addressed to God's New Covenant church. The following is a detailed, honest, examination of Scriptures to address your statement.

In 1 Cor. 9 Paul is discussing acceptable behavior of a true follower of the Christ.

7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

Then he let the audience know where this teaching he brings comes from.

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

So where does Paul get his doctrine? From his own mind, from some famous religious theologian? Or is HE following his own instruction regarding the Holy Scriptures profitable for doctrines. It seems he is following his own instruction.

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

So Paul is teaching Gentile and Jews, doctrines regarding the behavior of those in God's True Church, that God had written for HIM. Read that again, "For our sake's no doubt is was written".

So if you were to actually read the Law and Prophets, and you came by the Commandment;

Duet 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

If you were to ask Paul the question you asked Hark, "who was God Addressing here?" Paul has given you your answer. God was Addressing you and I. In fact, this very Law was written for "our Sake's no doubt". Specifically for us.

So then, for God's People, this would be one part of the Law HE Promised to write in the minds of HIS People, as it is clear God has written it on the mind of Paul.

The same thing would apply to all of God's Holy Instructions. Every Tittle, every Jot, as the Lord's Christ Himself teaches. As HE says "Man shall live by EVERY WORD which proceeds from the mouth of God. WHY? Because He wrote them for you and me, for our sake's no doubt. And Paul tells you this over and over if you could just bring yourself to believe him.

1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our (New Covenant believers) admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Hard to follow instructions you don't believe in.

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God (Jew or Gentile, New Covenant Believers) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Again, who was God Addressing in Exodus and Leviticus you asked? You and I Bob, at least according to the Spirit of Christ inspired Words of the Holy Scriptures.

So then, what does Paul say regarding the Holy Feast of the Christ, Feast of Unleavened Bread?

1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

In this case it would be the falsehood you promote from within, that God's Laws were not written for us, which permeates the entire body and spoils it. (Paul warns of the Philosophy of men in Col. 2:8 should you be interested.)

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Does God care about yeast and bread, or sayeth He these things for our sake's? For our sake's no doubt, it is written.

Why, because this Feast of the Lord's Christ was written specifically for us, that we would learn to become a New Creature in Christ, unleavened, without sin, Holy, Blameless, a New man "created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them..

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Those who are truly HIS People are no longer slaves to transgression of God's Law.

Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace. (Alive)

15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress again) because we are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid. (That means NO!)

Shall I continue to Transgress God's Commandments, written for my Sake no doubt, after that Jesus released me from the Penalty of Transgressing God's Commandments?

God forbid. I added the following verse you omitted from your post.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression of God's Commandments) unto death, (what "under the law" means) or of obedience unto righteousness?

Obedience to what? To the Laws God has written specifically for our sake's. As HE shows us in HIS definition of HIS New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; "After those days". (our time) OK Bob, this is it, this is the Christ Himself defining HIS Own NEW Covenant after HE Becomes our High Priest. There is no more reason to speculate, or preach a different gospel. Here it is, all we need to do is Believe.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There you go Bob. God will place HIS Laws, Written for our sake's no doubt, for our admonition, for Doctrine, for correction, for instruction in Righteousness, into the minds of His People, so that the New Covenant Believer "may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." And HE will be their God, and they shall be HIS People.

And it seems your claim "To Whom was that addressed, Certainly not new covenant Christians" is the opposite of Biblical Truth. As the Word of God has clearly shown, the Law and Prophets, and the Laws contained therein, were Specifically Written, almost exclusively to the New Covenant Church. For their admonition, examples for them specifically, that they might be perfect, Blameless, Holy "throughly furnished unto all good works".

At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

JLB777 · Dec 12, 2020

Studyman said:
I'm not sure what Covenant you are addressing. But the God of the Bible promised a New Covenant in Which HE Writes HIS LAWS in the minds of HIS People.

Amen

JLB777 · Dec 12, 2020

Studyman said:
Now religious men may not recognize, believe in, or otherwise accept this God and His Laws. But it is clear that the 4th Commandment is, in fact, part of God's Law. Therefore, if the Scriptures can be trusted, it is one of God's Holy Commandments HE writes on the mind of His People.

Yes, Amen.

The law of Moses came with specific commandments as to how the Sabbath was to be observed; how the children of Israel were to observe the Sabbath.

Here are a few of those specific commandments —

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15

Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

So my question to you is —

Are these specific Sabbath commandments put in our heart and mind by the Lord in the New Covenant?

A simple yes or no will be fine.

JLB

Studyman · Dec 12, 2020

Bob S said:
Paul writes that Christians are not under the "Law". What Law?

The Phrase "under the law" was mentioned 12 times in the entire bible, 3 times in one sentence.. All 12 were spoken by Paul in only 3 of his letters, Romans, 1 Corinthians and Galatians. This makes it fairly easy to examine, and thereby determining exactly what Paul meant by the term.

The first time this term is used is Romans 3.

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So then, according to Paul we are ALL "under the Law" at some point in our life. We would most certainly be included in the group "every mouth" and we are most certainly part of the world.

Of course for this to be true God's Law must still in force and effect. I may not know it, or see it, because I may not know God's Law, or have ever seen God's Law. But that doesn't matter, I am still guilty and under penalty for my guilt. The penalty which is death. I believe this because of Paul's other words.

Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Paul confirms this belief in Rom. 7.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

AS with "Every mouth" Paul's mouth was also stopped. Even though he may not have had God's Law, they are still condemning Paul as guilty before God.

So this begs the question, why? Is God's Law then bad? Paul asks the very same question.

Rom. 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me?

Bob, just humble yourself for one minute here and listen to Paul's question. Was God's Perfect, Righteous, Good and Holy Law designed to destroy me? Now listen to his answer.

God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

God placed the wages for rejecting and Transgressing His Instructions so egregious, the penalty so stiff, "DEATH", so that I might understand how exceedingly wicked, evil, wrong and "EXCEEDINGLY SINFUL" it is to treat God and His instructions with such indifference and disrespect. It is HIS program, Yes? It is HIS House, Yes? Would you dishonor and disrespect your own mother's laws in her own house? How much more a God who provided HIS only Son to pay for our rebellion and indifference.

Keep in mind that this is at least 14 years since Jesus was crucified, and according to Catholic doctrine, ushered in a New Covenant in which God's Law which defines sin, is no longer relevant. Which is the very foundation of your preaching on this forum.

But according to Paul, God's Laws are still stopping every mouth, and the people are still becoming guilty before God.

Once the Law comes, and we see our guilt, this causes us to search for atonement, forgiveness, justification. This brings us to the Holy Scriptures where we learn about the Lord's Christ, and His Atoning Blood. We find a requirement for "Repentance" which means change. WE learn about HIM taking our death penalty, bringing us out of Guilt.

We become alive by His Grace, free from the death our transgressions of God's instruction caused us. We become a servant to the Holy, Good, righteous, and Perfect instructions of God and we no longer allow our own mind to direct our footsteps.

So what then, As Paul asks?

15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress the Commandments of God) because we are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid. (That means no, we don't continue to dishonor and transgress God's Commandments just because Jesus died for us)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression) unto death, or of obedience (The opposite of Sin) unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, (Transgression) but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, (Not free from the definition of sin) ye became the servants of righteousness.

So then regarding your statement " Paul writes that Christians are not under the "Law"

Paul's definition of a Christian is a repentant man, who has become a servant of God's Righteousness, who obeys from the heart the Doctrine God has delivered unto him. As Paul himself declares.

Rom. 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (which is death)

The mainstream preachers of Paul's time rejected this Gospel first presented to the Children of Israel, who were also held captive by sin and death in Egypt. The mainstream religions of the land I was born into also reject this Gospel Paul furthered.

We have our fundamental disagreements, but it is my hope that through the Scriptures we might find common ground.

JLB777 · Dec 12, 2020

Studyman said:
While your practice of ignoring and refusing to acknowledge or discuss the answers people give to your question is frustrating, and a fruit not desired in my view, it pales in comparison to the implication of your statement "To Whom was that addressed, Certainly not new covenant Christians". You could not be more wrong. At least if the Scriptures are our guide.

Yes, it is a joke to you, a game of some sort. And I have no doubt you won't even read this post, and it is certainly doubtful you will engage in any serious or honest examination of scriptures. But there are others reading along, and someone has to stand up and expose the falsehood of your statement "To Whom was that addressed, Certainly not new covenant Christians". I volunteer.

I was responding to your question "To Whom was that addressed?"

The implication of your post is that the instruction regarding the Feasts of the Christ of the Bible, or the Law given by God through Moses, were not addressed to God's New Covenant church. The following is a detailed, honest, examination of Scriptures to address your statement.

In 1 Cor. 9 Paul is discussing acceptable behavior of a true follower of the Christ.

7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

Then he let the audience know where this teaching he brings comes from.

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

So where does Paul get his doctrine? From his own mind, from some famous religious theologian? Or is HE following his own instruction regarding the Holy Scriptures profitable for doctrines. It seems he is following his own instruction.

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

So Paul is teaching Gentile and Jews, doctrines regarding the behavior of those in God's True Church, that God had written for HIM. Read that again, "For our sake's no doubt is was written".

So if you were to actually read the Law and Prophets, and you came by the Commandment;

Duet 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

If you were to ask Paul the question you asked Hark, "who was God Addressing here?" Paul has given you your answer. God was Addressing you and I. In fact, this very Law was written for "our Sake's no doubt". Specifically for us.

So then, for God's People, this would be one part of the Law HE Promised to write in the minds of HIS People, as it is clear God has written it on the mind of Paul.

The same thing would apply to all of God's Holy Instructions. Every Tittle, every Jot, as the Lord's Christ Himself teaches. As HE says "Man shall live by EVERY WORD which proceeds from the mouth of God. WHY? Because He wrote them for you and me, for our sake's no doubt. And Paul tells you this over and over if you could just bring yourself to believe him.

1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our (New Covenant believers) admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Hard to follow instructions you don't believe in.

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God (Jew or Gentile, New Covenant Believers) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Again, who was God Addressing in Exodus and Leviticus you asked? You and I Bob, at least according to the Spirit of Christ inspired Words of the Holy Scriptures.

So then, what does Paul say regarding the Holy Feast of the Christ, Feast of Unleavened Bread?

1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

In this case it would be the falsehood you promote from within, that God's Laws were not written for us, which permeates the entire body and spoils it. (Paul warns of the Philosophy of men in Col. 2:8 should you be interested.)

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Does God care about yeast and bread, or sayeth He these things for our sake's? For our sake's no doubt, it is written.

Why, because this Feast of the Lord's Christ was written specifically for us, that we would learn to become a New Creature in Christ, unleavened, without sin, Holy, Blameless, a New man "created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them..

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Those who are truly HIS People are no longer slaves to transgression of God's Law.

Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace. (Alive)

15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress again) because we are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid. (That means NO!)

Shall I continue to Transgress God's Commandments, written for my Sake no doubt, after that Jesus released me from the Penalty of Transgressing God's Commandments?

God forbid. I added the following verse you omitted from your post.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression of God's Commandments) unto death, (what "under the law" means) or of obedience unto righteousness?

Obedience to what? To the Laws God has written specifically for our sake's. As HE shows us in HIS definition of HIS New Covenant.

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; "After those days". (our time) OK Bob, this is it, this is the Christ Himself defining HIS Own NEW Covenant after HE Becomes our High Priest. There is no more reason to speculate, or preach a different gospel. Here it is, all we need to do is Believe.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

There you go Bob. God will place HIS Laws, Written for our sake's no doubt, for our admonition, for Doctrine, for correction, for instruction in Righteousness, into the minds of His People, so that the New Covenant Believer "may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." And HE will be their God, and they shall be HIS People.

And it seems your claim "To Whom was that addressed, Certainly not new covenant Christians" is the opposite of Biblical Truth. As the Word of God has clearly shown, the Law and Prophets, and the Laws contained therein, were Specifically Written, almost exclusively to the New Covenant Church. For their admonition, examples for them specifically, that they might be perfect, Blameless, Holy "throughly furnished unto all good works".

At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Thank you brother, for this well written post.

It’s evident to me you are a person who is seeking truth, and taking the time to present a scriptural ly sound post.

JLB

JLB777 · Dec 12, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree dear friend. It is hard to see what one does not want to see when scripture has been provided that disagrees with ones tradition. According to the scriptures all through time many close their eyes to seeing and their ears to hearing God's Word according to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul *Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15; Matthew 15:3-9 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. Of course we are all free to believe and do as we wish. We all answer only to God come judgement day *John 12:47-48 that is why we are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling in Philippians 2:12. It is written that many are called but few are chosen because they refuse to see and hear the Word of God *Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:13-15. No one is accountable for sin according to the scripture until we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and choose to reject it *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. At that time if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-31. For me, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-8. I only wish you well dear friend and my prayer is that you might receive Gods' Word and be blessed. May God bless you as you receive his Word. Ignoring them does not make them disappear.

Yes ignoring the fact that Jesus or any writers of the New Testament never instructed the Church to gather together and worship on Saturday or keep specific requirements of the Sabbath law as prescribed by Moses is paramount to understanding the truth about these things.

Goodness gracious, over 1600 + posts and you still can’t identify for anyone what specifically constitutes sin cornering the Sabbath today, nor have you provided any scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles that instruct the Church what we can or can not do on the Sabbath so that we don’t sin.

Furthermore after 1600 + posts and you can’t explain to us how a born again Christian is to go about observing the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant.

What is the point of this thread if you can’t explain to a person how to observe the Sabbath today, with the specific scriptures from Jesus and His Apostles?

JLB

Studyman · Dec 12, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes, Amen.

The law of Moses came with specific commandments as to how the Sabbath was to be observed; how the children of Israel were to observe the Sabbath.

Here are a few of those specific commandments —

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15

Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

So my question to you is —
Are these specific Sabbath commandments put in our heart and mind by the Lord in the New Covenant?

A simple yes or no will be fine.
JLB

It's not a simple yes or no in my view. Let me explain.

1 Cor. 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

So the Law reads "Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn"

Does God write this on my heart? What if I don't have Oxen, is this Law still relevant?

The short answer in my view is yes. But I believe what God writes on the hearts of His People is the Spiritual meaning HIS Words provide for those who have Faith enough to honor Him in them. In this case it is true that if our animals are helping in the harvest of the corn, we should make sure and feed them. Certainly good and righteous instruction, and if we reject it, and starve the animals that help in the harvest, it is most certainly SIN. But there are other, spiritually deeper meanings for this instruction as Paul clearly demonstrates.

I believe the same is also true of all God's instructions, including HIS Sabbaths.

There is a Spiritual reason behind God's Commandment, one that "is written for our sake's no doubt".

When I have accepted the Biblical Truth that ALL of God's Instruction was written specifically for me, for my sake, it prompts me to "SEEK" His truth. As Jesus also instructs.

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

And so regarding His Sabbath Commandment. It is a fast from the normal activities of the week. A Day to refrain from servile work. A day to "Seek the righteousness of God" from the confines of our own home. A day of no worldly distractions.

Do you need to build a fire in order to cook? Do you have Oxen to help harvest your corn?

It's not only the Commandment that is written on the hearts of God's People, but the reason, the Spiritual Purpose for the Commandment is what God writes on our hearts as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord's Christ..

This is my understanding having striven to Honor God and His Instructions for nearly 30 years now.

It is certainly a good topic of discussion, thanks for your question.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 12, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes ignoring the fact that Jesus or any writers of the New Testament never instructed the Church to gather together and worship on Saturday or keep specific requirements of the Sabbath law as prescribed by Moses is paramount to understanding the truth about these things.

Sorry dear friend this really does not make any sense. Why would JESUS or any new testament writer need to instruct people to gather together to worship on the Sabbath when God's people were already doing it for the past 4000 years? As posted to you earlier, it is not a sin to attend Church any day that has never been the problem. Sin is the problem which is defined in the scriptures as breaking or disobeying anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23 of which God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" is one of God's 10 commandments and if we knowingly break any one of them we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them *James 2:10-11 according to the scriptures

JLB777 said:
Goodness gracious, over 1600 + posts and you still can’t identify for anyone what specifically constitutes sin cornering the Sabbath today, nor have you provided any scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles that instruct the Church what we can or can not do on the Sabbath so that we don’t sin.

That is statement has no truth in it whatsoever. All through this thread sin is defined as the transgression of Gods law *1 John 3:4. According to God's Word (not mine) in the new covenant the purpose of God's law is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and as James and Paul says if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Exodus 20:8-11. If we break it by working on His Holy day, just like breaking any one of God's 10 commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19. These are God's Word not mine, now what is it you do not believe?

JLB777 said:
Furthermore after 1600 + posts and you can’t explain to us how a born again Christian is to go about observing the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant. What is the point of this thread if you can’t explain to a person how to observe the Sabbath today, with the specific scriptures from Jesus and His Apostles?

Once again another claim and statement that is not truthful. You have already had these scriptures shared with you some time back if you remember. You claim they do not exist even when posted to you. I will post them here again for you and let others decide if your claims are true or not and leave it between you and God.

HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

GENESIS 1:4-5 [4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNNECESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in FOLLOWING any of God's Laws including the SABBATH if it is NOT done through FAITH that works by LOVE because it is ONLY as GOD writes his LAW to LOVE then we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE (Rom 13:8-10). These are Gods' Word dear friend not mine, and they disagree with your tradition. Now what is it you do not believe?

Your welcome

JLB777 · Dec 13, 2020

Studyman said:
It's not only the Commandment that is written on the hearts of God's People, but the reason, the Spiritual Purpose for the Commandment is what God writes on our hearts as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord's Christ..

This is my understanding having striven to Honor God and His Instructions for nearly 30 years now.

It is certainly a good topic of discussion, thanks for your question.

Thanks for sharing. You seem to have a pure heart that seeks to honor God and He will certainly honor your effort in this endeavor to please and obey Him.

This is good for all to understand.

When we strive to please God with a pure heart and good conscience, He is honored and pleased to bless us and increase our understanding in these matters.

Do you believe it’s a sin to gather on Sunday rather than Saturday to worship the Lord?

JLB

JLB777 · Dec 13, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
ALL UNNECESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

Yes we know what the law of Moses says about the Sabbath.

Are you under the law of Moses?

Please show us specific instructions from Jesus and Paul concerning how the Church is to observe the Sabbath.

Please show us from the scriptures where it is a sin to gather on Sunday rather than Saturday.

JLB

LoveGodsWord · Dec 13, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes we know what the law of Moses says about the Sabbath. Are you under the law of Moses? Please show us specific instructions from Jesus and Paul concerning how the Church is to observe the Sabbath. Please show us from the scriptures where it is a sin to gather on Sunday rather than Saturday. JLB

What is sin in the new covenant *1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11? As posted earlier it is not a sin to attend Church any day as that has never been the problem and no one has ever said it was. I am not sure why you keep repeating questions no one is even talking about. As posted earlier, sin is the problem which is defined in the scriptures as breaking or disobeying anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 (including God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath rest) or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. According to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul, many close there eyes from seeing God's Word and there ears from hearing Gods' Word in Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27, in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who do this are not following God in Matthew 15:3-9. It seems there is nothing new under the sun and nothing has changed today. You seem to be ignoring the scriptures shared with you in love and as a help. They are Gods' Word not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. We all answer only to God come judgement day according to the scriptures we accept or reject *John 12:47-48. Time to put the pearls away when scripture is ignored. Thanks for the conversation though.

Bob S · Dec 13, 2020

JBL is asking "Please show us from the scriptures where it is a sin to gather on Sunday rather than Saturday. You all who believe we must honor the old covenant Sabbath believe the remainder of us are sinning and give scripture that does not tell us we are to keep the ritual Sabbath of the TEN commandments, although they try to confirm such. I prefer the straight-out scriptures that tells us we are not under the law, meaning without dispute, the commands of the old covenant that was given to only one nation. Everly living soul on this Earth is under the new covenant, the one not like the old one, the one that has better promises and is freely given to all mankind.

Studyman · Dec 13, 2020

JLB777 said:
Thanks for sharing. You seem to have a pure heart that seeks to honor God and He will certainly honor your effort in this endeavor to please and obey Him.

This is good for all to understand.

When we strive to please God with a pure heart and good conscience, He is honored and pleased to bless us and increase our understanding in these matters.

Do you believe it’s a sin to gather on Sunday rather than Saturday to worship the Lord?

JLB

I would not presume to tell you what is sin and what is not. You have the Oracles of God in your own home, same as me. I am a no-body, a Maggot turd and insignificant in the scope of this world. What I believe is irrelevant. What "Every Word of God" says is what is important. At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

I would only provide you with the Word's of men much greater than I.

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

LoveGodsWord · Dec 13, 2020

Bob S said:
JBL is asking "Please show us from the scriptures where it is a sin to gather on Sunday rather than Saturday. You all who believe we must honor the old covenant Sabbath believe the remainder of us are sinning and give scripture that does not tell us we are to keep the ritual Sabbath of the TEN commandments, although they try to confirm such. I prefer the straight-out scriptures that tells us we are not under the law, meaning without dispute, the commands of the old covenant that was given to only one nation. Everly living soul on this Earth is under the new covenant, the one not like the old one, the one that has better promises and is freely given to all mankind.

What is sin in the new covenant *1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11? As posted earlier it is not a sin to attend Church any day as that has never been the problem and no one has ever said it was. I am not sure why you keep repeating questions no one is even talking about. As posted earlier, sin is the problem which is defined in the scriptures as breaking or disobeying anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 (including God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath rest) or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. According to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul, many close there eyes from seeing God's Word and there ears from hearing Gods' Word in Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27, in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who do this are not following God in Matthew 15:3-9. It seems there is nothing new under the sun and nothing has changed today. You seem to be ignoring the scriptures shared with you in love and as a help. They are Gods' Word not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. We all answer only to God come judgement day according to the scriptures we accept or reject *John 12:47-48. Time to put the pearls away when scripture is ignored. Thanks for the conversation though.

namohcam · Dec 13, 2020

JLB777 said:
Yes, Amen.

The law of Moses came with specific commandments as to how the Sabbath was to be observed; how the children of Israel were to observe the Sabbath.

Here are a few of those specific commandments —

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15

Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

So my question to you is —

Are these specific Sabbath commandments put in our heart and mind by the Lord in the New Covenant?

A simple yes or no will be fine.

JLB

Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-22)

namohcam · Dec 13, 2020

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (2 Timothy 3:16)

And God spoke all these words...

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." (Exodus 20:1, Exodus 20:8-11)

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." (Romans 7:7)

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)

JLB777 · Dec 14, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
What is sin in the new covenant

Do you believe it is a sin, a violation of the Sabbath, to gather to worship the Lord on Sunday rather than Saturday?

JLB

Bob S · Dec 14, 2020

namohcam said:
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (2 Timothy 3:16)

And God spoke all these words...

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." (Exodus 20:1, Exodus 20:8-11)

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." (Romans 7:7)

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)

Oh such pious writing. Might I remind you that we are all sinners and we all stumble? How could you write such a post that reeks of pointing fingers at all of us that do not share your views on what is sin.

In all my SDA years I never once lived up to the standard God set for the Israelites concerning keeping their day Holy. And to tell you the truth I have never rubbed elboes with any SDA that was able to meet the requirements.

The real issue is are we sinning because we don't keep a day given only to one nation. Not observing the sabbath laws wasn't a sin for all the other nations because God didn't require them to observe it. There is no Sabbath requirement for new covenant Christians either. James 2:10 is making the point to you who place yourself under the requirements of the old covenant and he didn't just mean the ten commandments, he meant the whole law. The Israelites were given 613 laws, most of them came from the mouth of God and a few from His finger. Is God's finger anymore sacred than His mouth?

GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

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