Day of The Lord - Day of Jesus' Future Return

Spiritual Jew said:

In no way, shape or form was Peter alluding to a future earthly millennial kingdom in 2 Peter 3:8.

Instead, if you would look at verse 9, you should see that he was pointing out how the Lord is not being slack concerning the promise of His coming as some would think because of how long it's been for Him to come. To Him, it hasn't been long since He is outside the realm of time. Not only is a day as a thousand years to Him, but a day is also as 5000 years or any number of years to Him because He exists outside of the realm of time and space which He created.

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Alluding to? Hardly. He literal claims a day with the Lord is as 1000 years..

Have you spent a whole Day with the Lord?

There is no time in eternity. And nothing created can leave creation and enter eternity. God is talking about time in Paradise with Christ as opposed to time on earth with Christ.

Now you are just making stuff up about time, to avoid the point.

God in heaven keeps time in Days. God on earth keeps time by 1000 year increments. That is what 2 Peter 3:8 is pointing out.

Spiritual Jew said:

To intend to commit that action is the same thing as committing it. Did you forget that Christ said that if you even lust after a woman who isn't your wife that you have committed adultery (Matthew 5:28)? He also said that anyone who hates his brother is a murderer (1 John 3:15). You don't seem to even know what sin is, which is pretty disturbing.

It is implied very heavily. You have to be spiritually blind to not see it. What is the reason that you are not aware that even our intentions in our hearts can be sin even if we don't actually act out what we want and are intending to do?

Can you not see that having the intention of killing God's people is a sin? How can you not see that? You have no spiritual discernment at all.

Spiritual discernment has to do with being able to determine what is right and wrong. Being able to interpret scripture correctly. For you to not be able to discern that wanting and intending to kill Christians is sin shows that you are lacking in spiritual discernment.

Clearly.

You misrepresent what sin is by trying to say that people having the intention to go kill God's people and trying to do just that isn't sin. It most certainly is.

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What is sin without a law?
Christ opened the law to include one's thoughts. Moses' Law covered one's actions. This act moved how God works with Nations, pre Moses, to the Law of a chosen nation, and now to the personal level. The thoughts and intents of one's mind and heart. Not that God’s people lacked that knowledge, at least those with an ear to hear. Now at the time of the Cross, God came to work on an individual level with every human on earth. Making disciples on a one on one basis.

So now you know the intent of these people you claim impossible to exist in a future time you deny?

"and will go out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for the battle. Their number is countless as the sand on the seashore; and they came up over the breadth of the Land and surrounded the camp of God’s people and the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them."

Other than the word "battle", how can the intent be sin? If the law stated there can be no assembly to battle, they broke the law with intent? The law would have to say it is illegal to think about an assembly to battle.

So now you know all the laws of this time period you deny, where sin does not even exist, because it takes place after the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet being an end to sin. If this is the here and now. How is it possible to raise an army of billions (10 billion out of a population less than 8 billion)? How many billion and which city where Christ is reigning with people of a bodily resurrection?

Or is this spiritualized? What does Satan leading a march of billions of humans represent? How does this equate to there being no sin, because incorruptible bodies or spirits cannot sin, can they. Why would spiritual people be brought to life by God just to sin at the end, or the whole time for that matter? What is the point of eradicating sin on the Cross, but then claim, oops sin happens again?

And making personal attacks on my character instead of addressing the points only, is not sin? How is it possible to reject the meaning of: no sin? Can you at least agree God created the world without sin, and if not how did sin enter without any sinners present? Or did God create sinners, without sin present? How would being a sinner be a part of the image of God?

BABerean2 said:

You are attempting to ignore the fact that about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant on the Day of Pentecost, and the Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later.

You are ignoring Paul still considering himself an "Israelite", even after his conversion, in Romans 11:1. Paul also described two different groups of Israelites in Romans 11:2-5, one a group of Baal worshippers, and the other a faithful "remnant".

You are ignoring the fact that James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith" in James 1:1-3.


Based on the passages above, all attempts to separate faithful Israel from the New Covenant Church do not agree with what is plainly written in scripture.

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Why are you side stepping the issue that the passage is future? Did Christ on a throne in Jerusalem divide the sheep from the goats in the 1st century, or any time in the last 1990 years? We have the church covered. Is the church changed at the Second Coming or separated as sheep and goats based on their works that they did and not the Atonement of the Cross?

Timtofly said:

Why are you side stepping the issue that the passage is future?

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You are the one who is attempting to separate the New Covenant Church from faithful Israel.
There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the Bible.


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BABerean2 said:

You are the one who is attempting to separate the New Covenant Church from faithful Israel.
There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the Bible.

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Sorry, but I do not live in the first century. You are thinking like a first century person. This is the Second Coming. Salvation will be complete when the church leaves first. We are talking about the harvest of souls, not the sermon topic for the next 4 Sundays .

Timtofly said:

Sorry, but I do not live in the first century. You are thinking like a first century person. This is the Second Coming. Salvation will be complete when the church leaves first. We are talking about the harvest of souls, not the sermon topic for the next 4 Sundays .

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In the verse below we find those who are a part of the New Covenant Church.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb without being a part of the Church.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


The Capital "C" Church as we use the word today is not found in the entire Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found.

The verse above is one of many which kills the Pretrib doctrine.

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Davy said:

It's like Lord Jesus said ...

John 3:6-7
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
KJV

If you don't believe you have a 'spirit' inside your flesh that is not of... flesh material matter, then there would be nothing to be "born again" by The Spirit through Faith on Christ Jesus. Your belief on Christ would mean nothing.

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It is the soul that dies spiritually and physically. Since the soul does not change, the spirit and the body changes. The spirit is eternal and cannot die. It is the God part of the image. The body is the Word and physical Jesus part of the image. The soul is the Holy Spirit part of the image. God keeps the spirit, His part of the image in His presence in heaven. The corruptible body from Adam has to die and return to dust. But our soul is the pneuma part, having form, but no substance. The cloud without any hardware. The soul does not "need" a body, but without one how does it experience anything? God gives (all) the Holy Spirit inside to seal the innermost part of this pneuma cloud. A physical body covers the soul, and gives us the experiences that shape and mold who we are. The spirit is an outer robe that we currently lack. A demon is a former outer robe, that now seeks residence where the Holy Spirit is and smothers the ability of the Holy Spirit and takes over control of the heart and mind, the emotions and thoughts of the soul.

To maintain the whole, spirit, body, and soul in the Word of God, maintains the spirit in God's presence. It keeps the flesh from sinning, and it allows the Holy Spirit to control the soul. Pagans incorporate the soul and spirit (as one) in their thinking and that is reflected in the parts of the Bible pre-Greek, and shows post Greek influence. That is not how God set things up. One has to be careful using Job and Ecclesiastes as proof text. Both incorporate pagan thoughts, because the writer or character being written about is thinking like a pagan.

Jesus is correct about the two births. They involve the flesh, body on earth, and the spirit, outer robe with God. Since all souls, in Adam have a dead sinful body, and are separated from their spirit because of sin, the soul needs the two births. It is symbolic not that we literally have to go back into the womb. The soul is constantly longing for both births. If we currently have our spirit with us, it would make Jesus a liar, and the spiritual birth not necessary. God is not physically present in the aspect of our spirit. If that happened we would shine bright like a star. Daniel 12:1-3

“When that time comes, Mikha’el, the great prince who champions your people, will stand up; and there will be a time of distress unparalleled between the time they became a nation and that moment. At that time, your people will be delivered, everyone whose name is found written in the book.
2 Many of those sleeping in the dust of the earth will awaken, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and abhorrence.
3 But those who can discern will shine like the brightness of heaven’s dome, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever."

This is when the spirit is returned to the body and soul, and we will literally shine like a star. Now we are forced to say, both births are being withheld to a future event. Some even claim it is the GWT. Some say it is the Second Coming. Some spiritualize the process saying it is both now and physical, it is practical (idealistic) belief, and not literal at all.

I accept Paul in 2 Corinthians 5, and John in Revelation 6, and their description of both births. Paul mentions both in 1 Corinthians 15, and further clarifies the physical birth in 2 Corinthians 5.

Some have been taught that heaven and Paradise are spiritual and not physical at all, as a false paradigm between the divine and the carnal flesh. The heavens are just as physical as the rest of creation. The earth is just as spiritual and held together by God as what is under the earth and in heaven above the earth. We as sinners just have a veil of darkness blinding us from the full spiritual glory of God's creation as a whole. As modern humans, we have been deceived by Satan to view God's spiritual and physical creation as a virtual universe with a 14 billion year shape and existence. We cannot even grasp the reality of what God created in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 is completely foreign and contradictory to what we are taught growing up. That is why no one can reconcile science with God’s Word. The Second Coming will change all that and expose Satan's deception.

BABerean2 said:

In the verse below we find those who are a part of the New Covenant Church.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb without being a part of the Church.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The Capital "C" Church as we use the word today is not found in the entire Book of Revelation.
Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found.

The verse above is one of many which kills the Pretrib doctrine.

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So are you taking this verse out of historical context to make a point about what in the future exactly?

In context, the church for the last 1990 years has overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb. I have no argument with that point. But what does that have to do with anything I have posted? Is faithful Israel those in Christ for the last 1990 years or is it you attempting to separate some and form a third group?

What is the point about God choosing sheep because of their works? It is God creating a third group. The church is not by works. The church is by the blood of the Lamb. Your argument is with God on the throne and His decision making process.

Like I said. This is the Second Coming. Not the sermon topic of the next 4 Sundays.