Grace and Works broken down
- Thread starter Jesus is YHWH
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Yes we will all be judged by our works. The only difference between the elect of God and those outside is we won't be cast into hell for our sin because it's all paid for.
The Bible does teach that that both heaven and hell have varying degrees of punishment and reward. If we bare little to no fruit as Christians, we might be cleaners in Heaven instead of rulers.
Those outside of Christ who sinned grievously, will go to the pits of hell where the heat is super intense while those who committed respectable sins like giving money to the poor with a wrong motive will suffer less heat.
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Where does faith come from??? do we produce it within ourselves or is it a gift from God. Why do some have faith and others don't???
True faith does work, no Christian can dispute that. The question is, where does it come from and how does one attain it. We know works without faith are dead and faith without works is dead so any works done without faith are as filthy rags.
All that to say, God does good works through us for His glory alone. All we bring to the table is a filthy stinking corpse and we want to boast about it, give me a break.
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When Peter was Satan, He didn't know who Jesus was and what He was going to do. But when he found out, then he requested to be crucified up side down as he didn't count himself worthy to be executed in the same way as Christ.
So we see God revealed the truth to Simon/Peter, at His appointed time and then his eyes were opened and he knew the truth. Jesus said "I am the truth" so the truth is a person and His Name is the Lord Jesus Christ.
Nobody can know Him unless He reveals Himself to them, scientists can't find Him anywhere because He hasn't revealed Himself to them. Everyone who was ever saved knows Him as God the Father, Jehovah, The Creator of all things. The King of the universe etc. He is the same God always, He continues to save His elect in the same way to this day.
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The Bible never teaches that we have free will. You guys superimpose your will upon God's Word, which clearly states that we are all born slaves to sin. Jesus called those who you claim to be the elect "Children of the Devil" Why would Jesus call His elect children of the Devil. So that blows your view right out of the water.
I can say the Jews are the elect because thousands were saved when they heard Christ preach and thousands rejected Him at the same time.
I find it interesting how you guys always ignore the other half of scripture which exposes your false views.
Please don't trample all over the Holy Scriptures and accept the whole counsel of God. Don't just cherry pick the Bible and throw the parts you don't like in the trash can.
I know why some can't accept the sovereignty of God in all things, including salvation. It has to be pride, it's the mother of all sins. Lucifer fell because of it.
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fhansen
Oldbie
It’s actually nothing but humility that would cause a person to think they’re obligated to strive towards holiness while knowing they can only achieve it by the grace of God. And knowing that he cannot be absolutely 100% certain that he’s attained it, as if he already possessed eternal life, guaranteed.
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No Christian ever looked back or forward to the cross. We all hated Jesus before He saved us, I don't know the exact moment when Peter was saved. I wasn't there, but I know God doesn't play games. He has always saved His elect in the same way, grace through faith alone and that not of yourself lest anyone boast. But it is a gift from God.
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I will give you my house and everything I own if you can please tell me where I can find that humility so I can give it to my family and friends as they are not saved.
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The disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.
John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
John 16:17-18
At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”
Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them.
Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?
I can provide NUMEROUS other scriptures showing the disciples did not understand Jesus teachings until after Pentecost.
hope this helps!!!
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Guojing
Well-Known Member
Paul made it clear that salvation is based on believing the cross, that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd day (1 Cor 15:1-4)
We are looking back to the cross, an event that took place 2000 years before we were born for our salvation.
So when you earlier claim that
What exactly were the OT saints looking forward to him in faith in?
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Guojing
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Yep, so my point to him was that none of the OT saints were looking forward to the cross.
As far as Peter and others are concerned, they are instead looking forward to the kingdom that was promised to Israel, with Jesus as their King.
Even after the cross happened, it was still the question they asked him in Acts 1:6
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fhansen
Oldbie
Yes, and we can see how that applies here:
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13
“So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.” Rom 7:12
“And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.“ Rom 5:5
“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13
“Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.“ Rom 13:10
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Yes and imagine how disappointed it was for Jesus. The necessity for the promise of the Paraclete they did not understand until Pentecost when the Spirit of Promise was in them, guiding them into all truth and bringing into remembrance all the things Jesus had taught them. It must of been like a light switch being turned on inside of them.
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fhansen
Oldbie
It’s free; if anyone has humility they get it from God. You’ve already implied that you have it, by insisting that those who think they’re obligated to do their part are full of pride.
In any case humility is something that none of us can ever have too much of, and something we should always seek more of.
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The whole Bible is about Jesus, from Genesis to Revelation. The OT tells us that sacrificing animals is not sufficient, it just points to the perfect sacrifice which was to come.
Isaiah described the life, death and resurrection of Jesus 700 years before it came to pass. Daniel saw Jesus in the fiery furnace. The whole OT pointed forward to Jesus and we look back to His atoning work, but He is the only savior for all people in every age from the beginning.
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Guojing
Well-Known Member
So if your claim is true, why was Peter so disillusioned with Christ impending death that he renounced Christ?
I mean, if what you claim was true, Peter should be jumping for joy that his sins will finally be paid thru the death burial and resurrection of Christ right?
Why wasn't any of the 12 at the tomb on Sunday, counting down to his expected resurrection from the grave?
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I'm not disputing anything you say here, I'm asking why some have humility (leading to faith) while other intelligent people don't.
You admit that we get faith from God if we are humble, but how does humility come to us or if we cut to the chase how does anything come to us.
I believe that God gave me everything I have, including humility faith and salvation. I would be interested to know how you got everything you have. Do you believe that man can create something like humility of his own accord.
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